Posted by L.G (Buc) Alboucq on 2/9/10 4:36pm
Msg #322109

Names

DOT is in married name as are most of the documents that are to be notarized. HUD, Affidavit of title, AKA affidavit are in maiden name. Borrower has current picture ID in Married name but not in maiden name.

What to do???

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/9/10 4:40pm
Msg #322110

Check your handbook and notify title immediately

of the name discrepancy. They may have to revise those few docs.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/9/10 5:17pm
Msg #322113

Call tc immediately. I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that if she's is on title (DOT) w/married name, that is the name tc would use.

Reply by Julie/MI on 2/9/10 5:52pm
Msg #322122

Sounds like title did their job

In all the years I've been in this business, the LO's and title are never on the same page.

Loan Officer took the application in their current name and borrowers probably took title as single people, thus the maiden name. That's why the lender docs have the current name and the title docs have the maiden name.

Thankfully I live in my state and as long as they had their marriage license or something in her maiden name that's good enough for my state and more than good enough for me.

As previous poster stated, check your state, hopefully they are one of the over the top state's that will probably soon require a dna sample.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/9/10 6:01pm
Msg #322123

Re: Sounds like title did their job

Had one the other day that the borrower was just livid over. She repeatedly told her LO and Title that the name on the deed is not correct anymore and she wanted it changed. She was told no problem. Well, I get there and it is not corrected. She was livid and she got on the phone with her LO and chewed him out big time. Of course, he said it was Title's fault. Called Title and of course they said it couldn't be done without a QCD. Well..... why didn't someone, anyone tell her to do this or better yet, why wasn't it included in the pkg to do for her. She refused to sign with the old name, thus everyone loses because the loan did not close. No one is listening to these borrowers. It keeps getting passed on to someone else.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/9/10 6:12pm
Msg #322124

I'd do it.

I know people think I'm the worst kind because I don't match drivers license/passports to the letter of the name on documents. My rules say that I identify people using govt issued ID. Therefore, I take down their identity as stated on their ID and put it in my journal (but not their DL #). Once that's done we *know* who appeared before me.

Then, my rules say that I have to put down a lot of detail about the document, especially if it is conveying any interest, or is charged by a debt (and loan docs are)...for instance grantor, grantee, maker, etc. So, I put that down and we know who that person says they are and their ID is already down in the book. Therefore, the ID'd person has said that they are the person who is signing.

Texas Rules clearly state, "The primary duty of a Notary Public is to show that a disinterested party (the Notary Public) has duly notified the signer of an instrument as to the importance of such document, and >>>>>>>>the signer<<<<<<<<< of such document has declared that the signer’s identity, signature, and reasons for signing such instrument are genuine. The signature and seal of a Notary Public do not prove these facts conclusively, but provide prima facie proof of them, and allow persons in trade and commerce to rely upon the truth and veracity of the Notary Public as a third party who has no personal interest in the transaction."

The Texas notary gets the ID down in their journal, they get the name from the documents and put that in their journal, then they do the notarization. The burden of declaring ID is on the signer. The notary does very specific things as stated in the rules to record WHO appeared before them. If they do that, then they've got all the info they need without a DNA sample, thumbprint or documents to make a connection of name to name to name. If the ID does not persuade me as being sufficient, then I don't have to do something I'm not okay with. (If that ever changes, I'll give back my commission.)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/9/10 6:18pm
Msg #322126

Re: Sounds like title did their job

"Loan Officer took the application in their current name and borrowers probably took title as single people, thus the maiden name. That's why the lender docs have the current name and the title docs have the maiden name."

IME that's backwards....title does title search and advises lender how borrowers hold title - that's how lender docs are drawn - if they took title as single then lender docs would show maiden name - all docs should be in accordance with how title is held (who owns the property) - and a name change, however done in that state, needs to be done to put title into married name. LO should have nothing to do with how lender and title docs are drawn.

MHO

Reply by Pat/IL on 2/9/10 7:11pm
Msg #322137

Linda, I disagree (somewhat). Title did not do its job.

I agree with you in that the LO should not be concerned with how the docs are drawn. But, title should have stipulated, as a condition of insuring the deal, that the name difference must be resolved at or prior to closing.

It's a matter of perfecting the lien with a properly executed mortgage or deed of trust. In most states, constructive notice (recording in the public record in a way that a reasonable person could find it in a search) is a requirement to validate the lien. The official record in most states is the Grantor/Grantee indice (indexed by name). A person searching the Grantor/Grantee indice under the maiden name (as vested) could not reasonably be expected to find the mortgage (or DOT) under the married name.

Any title officer should know this and ensure that a deed is executed prior to the signing of the mortgage (or DOT) or some other acceptable remedy. In my opinion, the borrowers should consult with a good real estate attorney to advise on estate (tenancy) options and prepare a deed prior to closing.

I can't help but wonder at the competency of a title officer who would allow the deal to close without addressing the name change in some way.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/9/10 7:19pm
Msg #322139

I think we're saying the same thing, Pat

Title search determines how title is held and that's how docs are drawn...or they tend to any name changes. I was responding to Julie's scenario.

I especially agree about wondering about the title officer.

Reply by Pat/IL on 2/9/10 7:34pm
Msg #322143

Re: I think we're saying the same thing, Pat

We're in the same ballpark, Linda. Except lender docs should not be drawn in the maiden name because the woman is no longer known by that name. The public record should be updated to reflect the name change. So, I am disagreeing as to whether the title company did its job. You said yes, I said no. We title nerds are knitpicky.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/9/10 7:47pm
Msg #322146

I didn't say they did they're job

That was the caption of the post I was responding to and the scenario cited there...

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/9/10 7:49pm
Msg #322147

Here's the end of my post:

"...a name change, however done in that state, needs to be done to put title into married name. LO should have nothing to do with how lender and title docs are drawn."

<<wishing for an edit button>>...

Reply by jba/fl on 2/9/10 8:42pm
Msg #322152

I'm following this exchange between Pat & Linda avidly...

I bought my house when I was single, I have never had a QC Deed or other conveyance deed since I changed my name through marriage. I divorced but retained my new name. I recently refi-ed requesting this be taken care of during this process and it was not. Now my mtg. and note are under new name only - no fka or anything to link to previous name. I also have drastically changed my signature since 1978 when I originally signed papers, again in 2005 and again in 2009.

So - I am safe to assume that TC did not do their job properly? How did I acquire this house - proofwise? Why, if TC's get so much money during refi process are they so sloppy? Is this all within tolerance levels? Did they, in my case, even pull the title to examine or just a stamp "approved"?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/9/10 8:47pm
Msg #322153

You'd have to contact title about that..

which, if it were me, I would....it will cost you but will make things neater later....

That's why they rely so heavily on the Signature/Name Affidavits....

I'm sure you can prove you were Julianne <maiden name> and you're now Julianne <married name> - that chain should be easy to establish....why title didn't clean things up when you refi'd is beyond me.

Reply by Pat/IL on 2/9/10 9:27pm
Msg #322162

Re: I'm following this exchange between Pat & Linda avidly...

Julie,

Actually, if there is a problem with the validity of the lien against your home, I would see it as more of a problem between your lender and the title company. Why should you be concerned that the lender might not hold a valid lien against your home?

I don't know anything about Florida except that it's a nice place to visit. Being in Illinois, where parties to the transaction may prepare documents, simply prepared the QCD myself after the nuptials to properly vest title to reflect my wife's new name and had it recorded. It cost 18 bucks at the time.

So, again, not knowing how things work in Florida, it may be very simple to correct - and I'm guessing it is. I don't want to cause you to throw any money away, but if it were me, I wouldn't be adverse to paying a hundred or two to a good real estate lawyer to make sure it gets done right. Either way, it will be corrected somewhere down the line.

Reply by Pat/IL on 2/9/10 8:53pm
Msg #322155

Linda, you have my sincere apology.

"and a name change, however done in that state, needs to be done to put title into married name."

In reading your post twice to be sure I wasn't missing anything, I managed to miss that line twice. And I failed to see that the subject line was not your original.

You don't need an edit button, I do. I should never post after the second beer.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/9/10 9:15pm
Msg #322158

Nah Pat..no need....

I AM interested in your response to Julie..

Reply by Julie/MI on 2/9/10 9:27pm
Msg #322163

Communication is the ticket!

Can you just imagine the Loan Officer receiving this voicemail from the title company:

"Hi Joe, Just ran preliminary title search for the property at 123 Anystreet and in order to perfect the lien you need to have your mortgagors record a quit claim deed so show the matrimonial lineage......of course we can have out in house legal division subcontract out the deed prep fee and pass that cost on to your mortgagor.....got that Joe? Call us back right away so we can make a determination on how to proceed so when the notary public arrives all the ducks will be in order. Thanks, Anytitle"

1983 folks I've been doing this since 1983 and there is simply no communication between loan officers/processors and title people. Throw in a real estate agent for a purchase with mortgage and the fun really begins.

For all of the emails, information at our finger tips and quick turn around time, the docs keep getting sloppier and have more misspellings.

I still say title did their job, because the title docs have the maiden name as that IS how title is held. Title companies do not fill in the blanks on the lender docs, the loan processor does. So the loan processor doesn't give a hoot if a lien can be perfected and so it goes by the data that the loan officer gave, not the preliminary title report.

Reply by Pat/IL on 2/9/10 9:51pm
Msg #322165

Re: Communication is the ticket!

Julie, just because the loan processor doesn't give a hoot, and the title examiner entered the correct title vesting into his/her computer doesn't mean that they have fufilled their obligation.

The title company has a duty to the lender to ensure and insure that the property is properly liened. You're right, communication is the ticket. I have always been baffled at the cavalier attitude (or poor training) many in the industry have in that regard.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/10/10 6:39am
Msg #322175

Re: Communication is the ticket!

One thing that baffles me is that 99% of the time it's the notary that catches the name discrepancy between lender docs and title docs and informs the TC. Then the TC acts as if this is the first time they are looking at the lender docs. Now THAT shouldn't be.

Reply by Pat/IL on 2/9/10 9:52pm
Msg #322166

Re: Nah Pat..no need....

Linda, I posted a response to both Julies, although my better judgment tried to stop me. :}

Reply by jba/fl on 2/10/10 6:30am
Msg #322174

Re: Nah Pat..no need....

This Julie recognizes that there is sloppy work done everywhere, that the borrower has to pay for it all as well. Standards are just not what they used to be.

I know I can prove this house is mine. I can replicate my original signature and the "along the way signatures" that I have used up to and including my current signature. I just don't understand the sloppiness though, the lack of pride in ones work.

Accounting is so much easier - it is either right or wrong; balances or not. Of course, we are not talking about the 'imaginary' or second set of books. You lose someone's ten cents, you find it.