Posted by John Schenk on 2/12/10 7:26pm
Msg #322614

Sign & Stamp BOTH the Jurat & Acknowledgment?????

LSI sent me back a Homestead Affidavit because I didn't sign and stamp BOTH the Jurat and Acknowledgment they had on there. I've never done both on any document. Have you...or have you ever even been asked to sign and stamp both when both are on one doc? Just curious, as this is a first for me.

JJ

Reply by JinCA on 2/12/10 7:38pm
Msg #322616

LSI also has a POA/ Correction agreement that has both Ack and Jurat on one page. I just do them both and stamp twice.
J.

Reply by John Schenk on 2/12/10 8:45pm
Msg #322624

But what's the point doing both? I wasn't asked to do it, so didn't, and never have. Have no problem doing it when instructed to do so, but really don't understand the reasoning behind doing both, especially if you use the jurat.

JJ

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/12/10 8:52pm
Msg #322628

But John, we as notaries are not allowed to decide what certificate is used. If both are pre-printed on the doc, then I make the assumption the document preparer is requesting both. If an ack is on a doc that is titled "AFFIDAVIT", then I assume the document preparer wants an ack and that's what they get. If a jurat is on a doc wherein there are no set of facts to swear to, they still get a jurat because that is what they requested as evidenced by what was pre-printed on the document.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/12/10 8:57pm
Msg #322630

Forgot to add that I have NO CLUE what is the point is of doing both!!!

Reply by PAW on 2/13/10 7:33am
Msg #322666

What's the point?

The point is, that an acknowledgment serves a different purpose than a jurat. There are often many documents which are somewhat convoluted where execution needs to be acknowledged as well as an oath (or affirmation) given to validate facts within the document.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/13/10 7:50am
Msg #322670

Re: What's the point?

Absolutely! So we do not decide, we simply complete the requested certificates (as evidenced by being pre-printed on the doc).

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/12/10 8:47pm
Msg #322625

Yes, if both are there then I complete both.

Jin is right - LSI has both ack and jurat on every POA/Correction Agr, except I always cross out the part that says I swear under penalty of perjury blah blah, because I'm not a CA notary and it is not part of the VA notarial cert.

Reply by John Schenk on 2/12/10 8:51pm
Msg #322627

Re: Yes, if both are there then I complete both.

They didn't send the POA/Correction Agreement back, and I certainly didn't do both on that one either. Did either of you ever see anything instructing you to notarize using BOTH the Ack and Jurat?

Thanks!

JJ

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/12/10 8:53pm
Msg #322629

Re: Yes, if both are there then I complete both.

Nope - just as evidenced that they are both printed on there so I'm assuming LSI wants both used.

Reply by Blueink_TN on 2/12/10 8:58pm
Msg #322631

Re: Yes, if both are there then I complete both.

I see, I ack, I notarize....paperwork is confusing, don't ask why, just remember your role, ID, get signature, complete notorial wording and stamp...

Reply by John Schenk on 2/12/10 9:34pm
Msg #322635

Re: Yes, if both are there then I complete both.

Just never had it as an issue before, and I've never stamped both in my life. Live and learn.

Thanks!

JJ

Reply by Maureen_nh on 2/12/10 11:58pm
Msg #322642

I was doing both and thought it was weird and not appropriate, but then I looked a little closer at the doc and for my state the ack was the proper form. That's what I have been doing with no feedback.
Maybe in some other states the jurat is the proper form. Beats me.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/13/10 6:30am
Msg #322659

The reason why there is an ack and a jurat.

I asked a Texas lender's attorney this question. Here is the answer:

Suppose that it is an affidavit which may need to be recorded in the future.
The affidavit requires a jurat.
The county clerk/recorder wants to see an acknowledgment on the documents they accept for recording.
Both types of notarial acts will take care of the problem.

It makes things go smoother.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 2/13/10 8:12am
Msg #322677

Re: The reason why there is an ack and a jurat.

I haven't been because the one has language that is specific to CA. No onew has complained.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/13/10 8:23am
Msg #322680

Stamper...Tx tip - If it is there, do it. :) n/m

Reply by JanelWI on 2/13/10 6:04pm
Msg #322733

Re: Stamper...Tx tip - If it is there, do it. :)

Wow, this is news to me. I do a ton for LSI East and I have never done both on the E&O Correction Agreement, and I have never been asked or told to do both; they also have never come back either. I guess, it is time to go straight to the source and just ask the question. I would think they would highlight this in their instructions if it was all state specific. As far as the Ack wording; the body of the paragraph is like any standard Ack that I have used on many docs. I just change the state to WI, initial it, and I have never been asked to redo it, or do both. So, I am curious what LSI will say.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/13/10 7:14pm
Msg #322741

I'm curious, which one do you complete? Ack or Jurat? n/m

Reply by JanelWI on 2/13/10 9:03pm
Msg #322746

Re: I'm curious, which one do you complete? Ack or Jurat?

If your asking me, I do the Ack, and never had an issue. They have never called me on it, and never returned one in the 4 years I have been signing with them. However, I plan on asking because now I am more than curious.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/13/10 8:21am
Msg #322679

Re: Sign & Stamp BOTH .... Maureen

"I looked a little closer at the doc and for my state the ack was the proper form"

IMO you're making determinations your not authorized to make. It's not our responsibiity to determine which cert to use - that's up to the document preparer - and the preparer has decided they want both . So far you've been lucky but that can come back to bite you one day.

MHO

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/13/10 9:53pm
Msg #322750

Completely agree, Linda - and with PAW's comments.

Bottom line, they serve different purposes and unless our state has some contradictory requirements (like all Aff's in FL must be a jurat), then our job is to provide what they ask for. I don't work for LSI, but I've seen similar documents from other TCs. A couple of times I've called to ask if they have a preference and I've received different responses. Some have said to not worry about it, that an ack is sufficient, others have said to do both. Unfortunately, I don't remember which is which, so anymore I just give them whatever is asked for.

If they don't get both, they probably figure it isn't worth the hassle to do anything about it and chances are it won't ever be a problem, but like Linda said, "So far you've been lucky".

One more thing: any verbiage, for either type of notarization, that doesn't conform with my state's laws gets changed and corrected - not ignored, even though it's a PITA...

Reply by parkerc/ME on 2/13/10 9:38am
Msg #322693

Re: And a loose jurat/ack if needed

Really redundant IMO, but I complete and stamp both on the same page anyway . . mine not to question why. In fact, the bottom one (I think it's the jurat) usually doesn't even give me room to put my notary info and stamp on it, so i attach a sep page cert for that.

Reply by JanelWI on 2/15/10 10:36am
Msg #322845

Well, I did call LSI and found out that for the Power of Attorney Correction Agreement, it is not absolutely necessary to do both. They won't send it back either way. If you did both that is fine, if you don't; that is fine too. Now in reference to the state specific requirement or Affidavits, she was unsure. She suggested to call and find out what title specifically wants.