Posted by Patricia Hatfield on 2/28/10 4:13am
Msg #324604

WARNING !!!!

WARNING!!!!

This is to inform everyone that SOX is a very bad company to work with! They have changed names many times, 1st) SOX located @ 11 Mareblu Ste 100, Aliso Viejo CA 92656. 2) Then changed to SignaturesPlus, and now they are working as... Signatures located @ 11 Mareblu Ste. 170, Aliso Viejo, CA.

I was hired for a signing by Signatures on 12-19-09, byLindsay Rueff, the office manager, who sent me my e-mail confirmation. Upon completion of the signing I sent my invoice by way of e-mail back to Lindsay, [e-mail address], because their fax # didn't work. However, I remembered they wanted only one invoice per month. After a few weeks past the one month of not being paid, I re-read my confirmation which stated this....

"Any work not billed within 90 days of completion will be voided.
"Fees will not be paid or payment will be delayed if the wrong invoice form is used, if the invoice form is filled out incorrectly, if the invoice is faxed to the wrong number, or ii the invoice is not submitted by the deadline." ( This clause is unlawful!)

After a few weeks, I called and talked to Trey Canterbury, President of Signatures, (1-949-545-8904) . After hearing a lot of loud paper ruffling Trey said he would get back to me, but never did! I let more time go by. I didn't receive any payment nor any contact from them. I called again. Someone first answered as 'SOX', then switced to 'Signatures'. ( At first, I was taken back by this. But, I figured that the title company, Westminster Title, must have hired SOX, who in turn hired Signatures, who in turn hired ME!)

Well, I was told, they needed the escrow # in order to check their records. They probably thought I didn't have this, but I gave them this. She said well, we don't have this job in their file.' I didn't believe her. Anyway, I called Westminster TItle of Pleasanton,CA. and left a message with Phyllis, explaining the trouble I am having getting paid for the signing I was hired to complete on 12-19-09 and I would be awaiting her call!

If I don't hear from Phyllis soon, I am left to believe Westminster Title is also working along with 'SOX- alias SignauresPlus, alias Signature', and I am left to file a small claims suite!

This is a violation of law and this group has to end!

Patricia Hatfield
[e-mail address]
Notary Signing Express
California 2-28-10

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/28/10 5:16am
Msg #324605

While I get the frustration, I have to wonder about the "This is a violation of law..." part.

What laws are they breaking by not paying you? I'm talking actual laws... we all know they have no morals or ethics.

If you agreed to the terms of their contract/agreement... you agreed. While completely ridiculous, what part of that agreement in actually illegal?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/28/10 5:29am
Msg #324606

Let me clarify... clearly, if they are (as we're sure they do) purposefully entering in to contracts knowing they have no intention of honoring them? Well... I think there's plenty of legal ground to mull over there....

But the basic concept of one company not paying another? I don't see it... even though I'm fully aware that SOX is essentially scum of the earth. If they set their agreement in asuch a way as a condition of payment... and you accept it? You're stuck... unless you can somehow prove the agreement itself is illegal, but I'm not sure how you can do that.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 2/28/10 6:31am
Msg #324607

If these are the same people as what once was Signatures Plus I will need to look up some old records. Signatures Plus left me stuck for $800.00 back in 2007. I was just one of many whol were left out to dry.

We were working with a detective with the Irvine PD I believe and the consensus was that there was not much they could do. It may be a different story if they packed a new bag and moved elsewhere.

The names you mentioned are not familiar to me though. Are you sure these are the same people?

Reply by MW/VA on 2/28/10 8:06am
Msg #324612

If you had check Siging Central before accepting these

assignments, you would not be in this position. Both these companies have a very bad rep.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/28/10 8:18am
Msg #324614

Sorry for the typos--should be, "If you had checked Signing. n/m

Reply by TRG_wy on 2/28/10 9:34am
Msg #324632

Re: If you had check Siging Central before accepting these

I have noticed that you repeatedly make posts of "If you had check Siging Central before accepting these".

Not to rag, but not everyone sits in front of the computer with their trigger finger on the Signing Central button when the phone rings for an assignment. What you suggest is impossible. Signing Central is an after thought not a pre thought process. It is also impossible to "know" immediately that you might be talking a scum bag signing service (there are just too many of them now).

To the rest of you and especially the original poster, I am sorry for hijacking your post.

- Rusty

Reply by Laura_V on 2/28/10 10:04am
Msg #324635

What you say is very valid, Rusty

You are right, Rusty: we can't just sit staring at our computers and phones waiting for work to fall into our laps.

And those idiot SSs and TCs want to send us potential signings via email so nice newbies staring at the computer just to get started in a new career have the honor of bidding lowest fastest? Gimme a break.



I think what a lot of ppl are doing is taking a job, checking Signing Central as soon as they get home / get a chance, and then either saying "whew! they pay" or calling the SS or TC and giving the job back.

Additionally, a lot of ppl here post about Blackberries, etc, which makes me think they can check the internet and Signing Central simply by pulling over if they are on the road.



I have four phones in my home. One voip for US, one voip for Canada, one luddite land line for US, one cell phone for BC. (Power goes out at the drop of a hat here: no electricity = no voip. And all freelance notaries and taxi drivers know: miss a call, miss a gig.)

I have both voip phones set to SimulRing. Yesterday morning all four phones were ringing at once. I was a couple minutes late leaving for a notary appt so I just let the chorus sing. Boy, was it loud!


Long story finally short - no instant text, web phone, etc for me. I'm too old for instant beyond my four phones.



Good post, Rusty. You remind the TC and SS lurkers that we are lurking at them, too, via SC.

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/28/10 12:08pm
Msg #324647

Re: What you say is very valid, Rusty

"I think what a lot of ppl are doing is taking a job, checking Signing Central as soon as they get home / get a chance, and then either saying "whew! they pay" or calling the SS or TC and giving the job back."

And that's exactly what they should be doing. Nobody is saying that it's necessary to check signing central the moment you hang up the phone, but if it's an unfamiliar company, you better make the time to check them out before you go to the signing. If that means giving the signing back to them an hour before the appointment time, then so be it.

Nobody's going to issue you a credit card without checking your credit score first, this board is our version of checking credit scores. If someone wants to issue credit for a signing completely on blind faith, then they run the risk of ending up with an SOX.

Reply by desktopfull on 2/28/10 12:19pm
Msg #324648

Have you ever heard of checking SC after accepting

& then kicking it back when you find out they are a scumbag company. Just because you accept it doesn't mean you have to keep it when you know you won't get paid. SOX has been in the business of ripping off notaries for a decade.

Reply by Laura_V on 2/28/10 12:25pm
Msg #324649

She is NEW to NotRot but not a newbie. Super nice gal.

And no, she had never heard of signing central or Sox.

Please don't yell at her or slash her - especially in public.

I truly like her a lot. She works very hard and always does her best. She's not a young little thing - she is a woman who has been around and would love to do more notary work because she loves helping ppl.

Reply by desktopfull on 2/28/10 1:52pm
Msg #324661

Re: She is NEW to NotRot but not a newbie. Super nice gal.

Laura,

I wasn't yelling at Patricia or even responding to her, if you follow the thread.. My response was to address Rusty's remark about "checking signing central & sitting in front of your computer all day. I won't hesitate to kick back a closing that I have accepted when I find out later that the company doesn't pay. Personally, I think that is good advice for someone and so is "check signing central." There was nothing personal, negative (except toward SOX) or rude about the comment, and it certainly wasn't yelling at anyone (I didn't type the response in all caps). Next time I will either type the persons name that I'm responding to at the top of the post to avoid anyones confusion, or just not bother posting and let the poster figure it out from the school of hard knocks like I did. I was closing loans before there was a Notrot available to assist you.

I wouldn't dream of addressing your friend after your protective response concerning her post. You have requested that her errors not be pointed out on this public forum and I didn't. However, it is difficult to give advice on fixing something wrong if you can't mention the error. Your friend may not be a new notary but she is definitely a newbie as a NSA, because anyone that's been in this business any time at all knows about SOX. FYI, there was a thread about SOX eariler in the week about the same subject, SOX didn't pay them. It was SOX that turned me against the NNA when after many complaints to them about SOX not paying the notaries they continued to allow SOX to use their database to find notaries and kept them listed as a company to contact for closings. The NNA as far as I was concerned perpetuated SOX fraudulent abuse of notaries by keeping them in their database. I understand that the NNA has finally removed them from their list, but I have no way of checking due to the fact that I am no longer a member and will never be a member again. I was able to get paid in 2002 by going through the BBB, but that was when they cared about their rating, now they don't BTW, you might want to Google SOX, there's a lot of info about this company on the internet, much more than what is on this forum, they also use other aliases too.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/28/10 1:02pm
Msg #324652

You are correct & my apologies if it came across as harsh.

SOX is a notorious company. It might be a good idea to run down Signing Central's list & note the worst companies out there. My bad for assuming that almost anyone would know of SOX's terrible rep. IMHO, there are a few names that everyone in this business should know to stay clear of.

Reply by desktopfull on 2/28/10 2:22pm
Msg #324664

Re: You are correct & my apologies if it came across as harsh.

You weren't harsh, you were speaking like a professional business person instead of a therapist empathizing with their patient. Looks like PC is the rule of the board from now on, don't tell it like it is, pat everyone on the hand and tell them how great they are for trying. Quite honestly, I don't understand what people expect when they go into business for themselves anymore. They start a business by popping up on a board announcing they're a newbie, request from others how to get business and market themselves, request how to run the business and what to do to do the job correctly, then get all ticked off when they get asked why they bothered to even go into business for themselves without any knowledge of what the business is they are doing. What's worse is that we get blasted for telling them in plain English the facts about running a business. Telling someone that should have had a business plan before starting a business is not being rude and nasty. Neither is telling someone that they should have done some research on the business and the businesses they will be working with before jumping in and hanging up their shingle. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but we aren't being rude or nasty for telling it like it is in the world. However, I expect to get blasted by the PC crowd for posting this message.

Reply by TRG_wy on 2/28/10 2:53pm
Msg #324666

Ouch

I didn't mean to start a range war.

I agree that we need to check Signing Central on companys we are not familiar with. It is an excellent tool, although I have yet to really figure out out some of these SS's are rated with one or two stars when they should be blacklisted. How about colored stars- black for good behavior and red stars (bleeding) for a below zero status.

I too think it is only right to cancel with a SS if they don't pay or are very slow to pay once I find out their history. If they remove me from their database, so be it. The problem here is that the signing service in this case has gone under three different names but all at the same physical address.

I hope I didn't step too hard on some toes - I was still sipping my morning coffee when I jumped in.

- Rusty

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/28/10 3:55pm
Msg #324669

Frankly, I wouldn' n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/28/10 4:02pm
Msg #324671

Re: Frankly, I wouldn't--oops--read this board if

therapy was the favorite soupe du jour.

Who knows? Maybe the OP feels the same way. Haven't had the chance to hear back from her yet.

Where's Carolyn when you need her? She'd recommend everyone let the OP speak for themselves.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/28/10 7:47pm
Msg #324708

What you say is true. I guess we're going the way of

Political Correctness & afraid to offend anyone. I'm a straight-shooter & most people know that from this forum. When I was new to the business it probably took all of a couple of weeks for me to hear about SOX. Thankfully, I've never dealt with them. I learned early on to be careful who I took work from, even as a newbie. Like most here, I participate to learn all I can & contribute to Signing Central so that it is there for others.

Reply by Laura_V on 2/28/10 8:31am
Msg #324615

Patricia is a lovely woman - I know her personally

I have had the pleasure of speaking with Patricia via phone for a few years. She is an absolutely lovely woman and her ethics are solid.

I helped Patricia with that very odd Apostille appt last year - that Asian guy who seemed to have contacted every notary in California. (Everything was totally legit there, btw. A PoA and Jurat was involved. I've done lots of similar appts here in nw WA.)

Patricia lives in a very low population area so she hardly gets any signings. So a few times a year I urge her to scan NotRot once a week or so just to stay on top of industry changes, warnings about bad SSs and TCs, etc.

Well, here she is. I am delighted to see her and I know her first post is simply trying to be helpful - that's the kind of gal she is.

Let's welcome and educate her by directing her to tools, just like we got when we were new to NotRot.


Patricia: hit the orange search button and look for message #33325. You will find a complete education there.


And would someone state how to use Signing Central if its not in 33325? I've never used it. TIA! It would be a great addition to 33325 if currently missing btw.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 2/28/10 8:57am
Msg #324625

Re: Patricia is a lovely woman - I know her personally

Well said. I have stayed away from the forum for years because it seems as though there are a lot of people out there who will just jump at the chance to point out the error of someones way shall we say. The newbies who need the help so badly are the first ones to be put down. Let's keep it positive and try to help one another!

And Patricia, welcome!

Reply by Laura_V on 2/28/10 9:26am
Msg #324630

Me, too GZ and thank you

I left NotRot for a year or more for exactly the same reason you did, GZ.

The bloodbaths are just ugly to watch and makes us all look like idiot clowns to the TCs who lurk here. No wonder they think we will take $50 for a signing.

And I happen to hate getting my guts slashed out in public just because someone doesn't understand or believe that I post "outside the box" marketing stuff that really does work for me.

There's plenty of great "inside the box" stuff on 33325 and online, especially if you start subscribing to Score's eNewletters from Score.org and use the Business Plan template at SBA.gov

So I started posting last fall veeerrry cautiously. I posted stuff I thought was helpful because this recession is a total kicker. Then I took my heart in hand and did the live chats. I can't tell you how relieved I was that the biggest slammers just didn't show up. I was totally dreading them.

Non-notary counselors and marketers at SBA etc don't know what notaries do and so, of course, they don't know how to tell us to market ourselves. So I'm doing the live chats one at a time knowing that I might leave NotRot again for years right after any session. I just don't have time to get beaten up if I can't be allowed to post helpful stuff.

FAR WORSE than my feeling slammed is that there are tons of newbie lurkers on NotRot. If someone says I am a big fat liar, the newbies will stop reading my posts and therefore not learn things that will help them. That's what I truly hate. There are lots of newbies taking weekend/night signings just to stay afloat in this recession.

There's a tent city in my dinky town 16 miles away from so much wealth (Vancouver and Olympics). There is a strong food bank here AND a wood bank. Some strong nice men make certain the tent city ppl and other poor ppl stay warm in winter. Wonderful men who keep their client list secret to spare clients from embarassment. This is the kind of thing happening all over the US. I can help by posting stuff so I do. I just joined the Haiti relief crowd this month. Glad I can help them, too via my artsy stuff.


Whew! I DO go on, don't I? God help us all if I start drinking caffeine! :-)

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 2/28/10 9:29am
Msg #324631

Re: Me, too GZ and thank you

"I can't tell you how relieved I was that the biggest slammers just didn't show up. I was totally dreading them"

Maybe they can't remain anonymous on Live Chat???

Happy you decided to come back to NotRot Laura

And, for those members who aren't aware, Laura has a great marketing book available.

Reply by Notarysigner on 2/28/10 11:42am
Msg #324645

Re: Patricia is a lovely woman - I know her personally

GZ and Laura V..... two very wonderful positive people, I didn't know you B4 but I do now. Thanks for coming back!!!!1

Reply by Laura_V on 2/28/10 10:16am
Msg #324638

I think in CA there are special tough laws re stiffing a not

I think in CA there are special tough laws re stiffing a notary. Some sort of not paying gov't appointed official or something.


I think it's similar in gist to getting extra jail time if you hit a cop vs a citizen.


Nice image, eh? Jail time and even more jail time for ppl who try to stiff us nice, hard working notaries.

Reply by sanjqnvly on 2/28/10 1:21pm
Msg #324658

Re: I think in CA there are special tough laws re stiffing a not

Turned back an offer for a Loan Mod after checking on NotRot and seeing that they were poor payers then they say they could guarantee payment! no details on how they were going to do this!

Reply by Laura_V on 2/28/10 4:07pm
Msg #324672

Last job from TC included a rubber check in the FedEx pkg

The last TC I took any work from included a rubber check to me in the FedEx pkg.

They wrote it on an account that was closed three weeks earlier.


Good thing the appt was a nearby one-pager so I only lost $75 or so.

Something pricked at my intuition so I took check to TC's bank for cashing. If I had deposited it, that would have cost me $25 then.


This was several years ago. "I'm done" I said aloud in the car.

Haven't taken a signing from TC or SS since. Then continued to take some signings from an honest LO's office in my town before the owner's heart attack. None since.


And ppl ask me why.

Reply by Deborah Lewellen on 2/28/10 1:25pm
Msg #324659

SOX has been bad since I started in 2003

When I first started doing this work in 2003, SOX was one of the first companies that I was working for
pretty regularly, but I also remember it was during the Sub-prime market, which to me, was not the
best of times in this industry, though we had plenty of work, many many borrowers were put in to really tight situations with LO's telling them not to make their payments and giving them 2yr. ARM's and lying to the people thru the whole process, I couldn't tell you how many angry/hostile/ & furious homeowners I encountered as well as no signs.
With in a yr. SOX had proved their worth in this business when it took me 6months to get paid for several jobs, I was very nice and respectful the entire time trying to get my money, but I promised myself, that was it, no more and when they tried to hire me for future work, that's when I gave it to them.
I still wasn't hateful or ugly about it, but I did let them know how unprofessional they were and to take me out of their system, never heard from them again. And yes, when I'm on the rd. and get a call for a job,
accept it, and if it's a company I'm not familiar with, I check here and have called back and said,
No Can do. But usually when I get a call and they tell me who they are and I say, I've never heard of you before, how long have you been in business? and kind of give them the 3rd. degree. I usually tell them, I've been working in this business for a long time and conducted over 4000+ closings and have worked for just about everyone out there, so you can understand my trepidation with a new company.
Fortunately I've only been burned a few times, but I follow instructions implicitly and follow up on invoices being reasonable about time pay, but when they go on for 3 months, that's ridiculous.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/28/10 2:09pm
Msg #324662

Thank you, Patricia!

This is a great post about how these snake-in-the grass SSs change their names while no one's looking and then start calling around for new victims. And, I am so sorry for all the crap these cheaters/liars/thieves have put you through and for all the time and hard work you have put in trying to get paid and still getting the runaround. SOX in all its names is the Black Plague on the notary signing agent business, and it's astounding they are still going strong after all these years. I guess that's because we "let" them ... As NSAs, we're completely unorganized to take on SOX, and they know it. Thousands of notaries are so greedy and/or desperate and/or uninformed, they'll say yes to anything. And they probably don't even know about NR Notary Talk or similar sites. Warnings on this board and others only touch the tip of the iceberg. And as long as SSs are completely unregulated, SOX and their comrads will thrive unimpeded. They make so much money off unpaid notaries, that they can treat the ones who actually do make trouble like flicking a fly off their shoulder. We can only continue to share our stories and hope it helps. Gee - I certainly made alot of animal kingdom analogies here. Anyway, off to watch the Gold Medal hockey game!

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 2/28/10 2:38pm
Msg #324665

Non/slow paying ss and title companies

I think we should flood our CA state legislators with letters and emails about this problem.

Reply by Shelley Pahn on 2/28/10 4:00pm
Msg #324670

Re: Non/slow paying ss and title companies

why can't we get paid? I have been a NSA for
8 years. I do this for a living. Does anyone
have a idea what we can do. Does union sound good?
Just a example I printed 200 pages, bought a laptop (e-sign}
the borrower said she had internant
at her work, as it turns out she did not have
acsess . title refused any compensation!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/28/10 4:09pm
Msg #324674

Re: Non/slow paying ss and title companies

On the surface, that sounds like a good idea, but in all seriousness, what kind of reaction do you think they might come back with? If legislation is the end result, I fear that it could just make more hoops to jump through - and perhaps more fees -- for us. Or even worse, CA could become another attorney-only state.

A better target might be through law enforcement channels, for example, city, county or state Attorneys General. (Although Jerry Brown seems to be pretty busy with health insurance companies at the moment... )

Reply by Laura_V on 2/28/10 4:09pm
Msg #324673

Terrific post, GoldGirl!!! n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/28/10 5:07pm
Msg #324682

<<<Next time I will either type the persons name that I'm responding to at the top of the post to avoid anyones confusion, or just not bother posting and let the poster figure it out from the school of hard knocks like I did.>>>

Just quote from the post you are responding to (as I've done). Then, whether your response post falls directly under their post or 35th down the thread....there's no doubt who you're replying to.

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/28/10 5:55pm
Msg #324694

<<<This is to inform everyone that SOX is a very bad company to work with! They have changed names many times, 1st) SOX located @ 11 Mareblu Ste 100, Aliso Viejo CA 92656. 2) Then changed to SignaturesPlus, and now they are working as... Signatures located @ 11 Mareblu Ste. 170, Aliso Viejo, CA.>>>

Thanks for the heads up that these crooks are operating under new names.

<<<"Any work not billed within 90 days of completion will be voided.
"Fees will not be paid or payment will be delayed if the wrong invoice form is used, if the invoice form is filled out incorrectly, if the invoice is faxed to the wrong number, or ii the invoice is not submitted by the deadline." ( This clause is unlawful!)>>>

This is now their ruse to never pay a Notary. They will lie and claim they were not billed, the invoice wasn't filled out correctly, the invoice wasn't faxed to the correct number or wasn't submitted by the deadline.

<<<Well, I was told, they needed the escrow # in order to check their records. They probably thought I didn't have this, but I gave them this. She said well, we don't have this job in their file.'>>>

Case in point....you produced the what was required and now they don't "have this job in their file". I look forward to the day I read a press release that states this operation is shut down and their officers are put behind bars.