Posted by CaliNotary on 2/8/10 8:47pm
Msg #321986
What would you do?
I have a company that I've worked for since the very beginning of my signing agent career 7 years ago. It's mostly been a good relationship, We don't even discuss fees when they call, I know what their range is, they know what my coverage area that fits into that range is, so I just send my invoice with my fee and they pay it. If a problem arises and I have to stand my ground, they've never held it against me, even if I can tell they don't necessarily agree with me.
The first several years I worked for them, you could set your watch by their payment schedule. They used to pay twice a month, then switched it to once a month, checks supposed to go out on the 15th for the previous month's work. Not my favorite type of pay schedule, but one I could live with, especially with the amount of work they gave me.
Over the past 2 years, not coincidentally beginning right around the time the market collapsed, they started getting sloppier about sending checks out on time. It starting being more like the 19th or 20th at the earliest, and could even go a week later than that. It got to the point where I'd have to call them about every 3 or 4 months around the 25th to ask where my money was. And that's annoying when you're waiting for payment for a full month's work and you've got bills to pay that you can't pay until you get the check.
It's always been tough trying to figure out the right balance of how much to push them. They do give me a lot of work, definitely my bread and butter company, and in the grand scheme of things we're talking 1 to 2 weeks late, not 2 or 3 months late. But, if I did a signing at the beginning of the previous month, and they're 2 weeks late sending out payment, then that means it's pushing 60 days from job to payment. And like I said earlier, I need that money to pay bills, that's the check my car payment is made from and if they send it late enough, I get hit with late fees that I wouldn't have to pay if they sent it on time, or even within a few days of being on time.
So last month was one of the months where I had to call, and I got the same excuse I always get, that she is or was out of town working an auction and it'll go out the next day. It's obviously a weak excuse, even if she is working an auction, they have the first 2 weeks of the month to get the checks ready, she can either take them with her and mail them or have one of the staff do it (it's family run). I sent an email inquiring about the check on the 25th, and was told that it hadn't been sent yet. So I sent a follow up email, basically saying what I said in this post, explaining that I need the money to pay bills and didn't understand why her working an auction should delay the checks.
They didn't send the check the next day like I was told, but she did end up FedExing it to me so I received it on the 28th. And since I sent the email, I haven't gotten a single call from them, my last signing for them was on 1/21, a few days before I started bugging them for payment. This is a company that I regularly get 10-20 signings a month from, so to not have gotten any in almost 3 weeks is highly unusual.
So now I'm trying to decide how to handle it, since it seems fairly obvious to me that I'm being punished for complaining about my check being sent so late. Part of me wants to talk to them about it, but I don't want to sound TOO accusatory since there is the slight possibility that it's just really slow for them right now and they just haven't had anything. Part of me is just tired of going through this every couple of months and is ready to just start contacting the TC's and letting them know that I'm not working for the SS anymore due to the hassle of getting paid, and letting them know that I'm available directly. A lot of them know me by name and know my work already. And part of me just wants to give it another week or two to see how things shake out.
So if you were me, how would you handle it?
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/8/10 9:19pm
Msg #321989
Cali..you've seen posts like this before..
and have commented about them and given advice. Step back and read your post - pretend *I* wrote it - what would you advise ME to do..
However, you said "a company that I've worked for since the very beginning of my signing agent career 7 years ago. It's mostly been a good relationship, We don't even discuss fees when they call"
If that's true and the relationship is THAT good, you can talk to them...I say call them...talk to them...find out what's going on...you may not want to hear that they've removed you because they're tired of you calling about your checks (and you know they might) but at least you'll know...they may have moved on for someone cheaper - that happens all the time.
They may be at the end, following that road that so many have followed - so maybe this may be a good thing..just move on.
And Good Luck.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/8/10 10:00pm
Msg #321994
One more thing you may want to consider
Has this company been discussed here recently? Are they listed? Go look at the comments - maybe it isn't just you but the beginning of a pattern...and as others have said - do you want to be part of that pattern?
| Reply by CaliNotary on 2/8/10 10:38pm
Msg #322002
Already did that
Not too many ratings in signing central, nothing that indicates a widespread pattern yet, and only one of the recent comments aside from mine mentions the payment time frame. The most current thread that pops up when I put their name into search is from April of last year.
| Reply by Gavina Franklin on 2/8/10 10:44pm
Msg #322003
I sent you a pm. If is the same company
I got paid in 60 days
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 2/8/10 9:20pm
Msg #321990
I'd wait to see what happens. Give them a week or two to see if they call. If they don't...and if the business is important to you, which it sounds as if it is, then give them a call and inquire.
I've lost quite a few companies because of their issues and they want me to take the hit for it. If they choose not to use me even though I've done excellent work, I just let them go. I'm fortunate, though, because I don't need the money to live on so I can pick and choose the jobs I take.
Good luck with it. I hope it works out.
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/8/10 9:49pm
Msg #321992
Yikes, Cali: This is tough. I agree that you should just give it a week or two to see how it shakes out . And if they do start calling you again, you need to revamp your whole attitude toward them and decide if you're going to continually bug them for your money or just let it go and get paid when they feel like it. Your main problem is that you are depending on them to get money to you in time to pay your bills. I know that may sound kinda stupid, but the fact it you are responsible for your bills - and if you have to depend on someone getting money to you in time for you to do that, you need to do some readjustments. And to lay that on them was inappropriate,
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/8/10 10:04pm
Msg #321995
Continued .....
Oops, pressed Post too soon. Anyway, we're all been there - having to give up TCs/SSs cos we just couldn't put up with their poor pay habits. It's like a business divorce: Are you better off with them or without them? You just have to decide whether to continue working with them on their terms - or to say goodbye. I know it's hard - Good luck!
| Reply by CaliNotary on 2/8/10 10:13pm
Msg #321997
"but the fact it you are responsible for your bills - and if you have to depend on someone getting money to you in time for you to do that, you need to do some readjustments."
??? I don't get this at all. This is my paycheck. Money I've already earned. Isn't that what most people use to pay their bills? I'm responsible for them, but it's unreasonable for me to expect to use what I've earned from my job to pay them? It's not like I'm asking them for a loan, it's not like I'm asking them for special treatment. All I'm asking them to do is send me my check in the time frame that THEY stated it would be sent.
Yeah, I wish I had an extra pile of cash in the bank right now, but I don't. I wish circumstances over the past couple of months that have made finances even tighter for me were different, but they weren't. I wish that the real estate market hadn't tanked, but it did. I wish the job market were such that I could get hired by the company that I've been trying to get in the door with for ages, thus far with no luck, but it's not. So right now I'm in the mode of just getting through each month until I can change things.
So maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but what would you suggest I readjust that would get my bills paid aside from using the money that I earned during the previous month? It's an easy enough platitude to spout, but in the economic reality of 2010, how exactly am I supposed to do that? I keep hoping there will be a golden egg floating in my toilet every morning, but what's actually in there is a little bit different, so that plan is out.
| Reply by jba/fl on 2/8/10 10:16pm
Msg #321999
HUH?
"And to lay that on them was inappropriate, "
How - to expect to be paid in a timely fashion? You lost me there Coldgirl.
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/8/10 9:54pm
Msg #321993
A terrible conundrum. We value our business
relationships, just like our personal relationships. But then again, business is business, personal is personal, and blood is blood.
The above posters make exquisite points. I had a conversation today with a BIG TC guy, and listened to his lamenting this super-low point in the industry. Everyone's hurting.
Suggested thoughts/questions for each and every one of us:
The squeeky wheel gets the oil.
The fittest will survive.
We notaries are creditors - how far can we afford to extend that credit?
What exactly is loyalty (business-wise) and is it always in our best interests?
Maybe one way to look at it is - if one company has a stronger credit 'rating', a better chance at survival (and therefore future business), and is willing to change the status quo (using sinking SS), then what is the better business decision?
I tend to be the optimist, with a healthy dose of pragmatism. And I hate to see good things gone bad. But these are hard times, and that means making hard decisions.
Hoping this works out for you, and, I'd say all of us, because as Linda said, this is not the first post highlighting our situations. I know I'm right there in this boat with you and I'd guess most of us are as well.
| Reply by jba/fl on 2/8/10 10:10pm
Msg #321996
Cali, I like the way that Linda said to turn this around to look from a different perspective. You need that objective eye clear right now, just as many of your posts have been so clear.
This is not an easy thing to deal with, but I think I would pick up the phone and try to find out my true position with them, and to see if there are some problems that have some solutions we both can live with. After that phone call, then I would have to reassess the entire situation again.
They also may have been hit with some losses that are not shared with you...these times are hitting everyone, and many are using their reserves beyond what they should be doing. It is hard to let go, and you may have to do just that. Make that phone call first - then move to another plan. Without the call, you have less information upon which to base your decision.
'My best to you, I truly understand your position and empathize completely.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 2/8/10 10:31pm
Msg #322001
I just wish something about the situation was more clear, that would make the decision easier. But it's all kind of borderline, at least from my perspective.
Checks are late, but they're not that late every single month, yet it's happening frequently enough that it's not just an anomaly. The SS obviously is having financial issues like everybody else in the industry, but are they just getting by, or are these warning signs that they're close to going under? It hasn't been a radical change in payment dates, it's been a slow progression over a couple of years. If I call them to discuss it and it turns out that I was wrong, are they now going to be offended that I didn't give them the benefit of the doubt after all of the years we've done business together?
In most situations the answer is pretty clear to me, even if it's not the answer I'd like, and I'll do whatever I think needs to be done to avoid being taken advantage of in the future. But this one is murky, I don't want to be too heavy handed and create a problem where there wasn't one, but I don't want to just do nothing if it turns out my instincts are correct. If they're done with me, then I have no problem using all of the TC and lender contact info I've gotten from them over the years to try to get that business directly, and the sooner I start, the better.
| Reply by janCA on 2/9/10 9:14am
Msg #322029
I think you've just answered your own question. n/m
| Reply by Glenn Strickler on 2/8/10 10:49pm
Msg #322004
You know what to do ......
You are an old pro ..... Think about some of the great advice you have given over the years and then take it. I think you are being sentimental. Just run the numbers and the odds of getting paid.
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/8/10 10:49pm
Msg #322005
<<<So I sent a follow up email, basically saying what I said in this post, explaining that I need the money to pay bills and didn't understand why her working an auction should delay the checks. >>>
This is what I'm talking about. For you to tell them you can't pay your bills until they pay you - do you think they care about your bills? Do you think they want your opinion as to when checks should be sent out before or after an auction? And if you unloaded on them like you just did on me with your near-hysterical diatribe means you need to take a breather and then decide to keep them on their terms or let go. Of course, we all need $$ to pay our bills and wouldn't it be great it everybody paid us on time - but that's not the way it works sometimes. Sorry I got involved. (That probably makes 2 of us).
| Reply by CaliNotary on 2/8/10 10:59pm
Msg #322006
Near hysterical diatribe?
Now that is funny.
And, FWIW, yes, I do think we should be reminding these companies that people are dealing with real consequences as a result of their payment delays. They have no problems piling on the excuses why they didn't send the money, I think it's reasonable to remind them why we do need the money, and possibly effective if they have a conscience.
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/8/10 11:19pm
Msg #322007
Re: Near hysterical diatribe?
<<... if they have a conscience.>>>??! Call me a cynic, but you're not dealing with Jiminy Cricket here. It's business. Try telling Madoff victims to appeal to his conscience or Enron employees or any number of other victims.
I still feel bad for you and think if you followed all the great advice everybody else has posted, you'll come out ahead.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 2/8/10 11:36pm
Msg #322012
Re: Near hysterical diatribe?
Well yeah, if you're dealing with somebody who is intentionally defrauding you, then you're not going to have any luck by appealing to their conscience. But if you're dealing with basically honest people, and after 6+ years of doing business with them I have no reason to think otherwise of them, then I don't see anything wrong with giving it a try. Business or not, if I knew my actions were directly causing hardship in somebody else's life, I wouldn't have it in me to just blow it off and not at least think about what I could do make it right.
And it's hardly unprecedented in this industry. Who among us hasn't had a company try to guilt us into doing a signing at the last minute, or cheaper, or to bend the rules? How many people on this board have admitted to doing something primarily because they didn't want the poor borrower to have to suffer? Why shouldn't we be able to use similar tactics when it comes to collecting our money? There's no guarantee that it's gonna work, but I don't see anything wrong with giving it a shot.
| Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 2/9/10 12:12am
Msg #322015
10-20 companies who provide work, per month, in CA in 2010 for a notary are pretty rare and I can sympathise with you.
What I would do is call the company and tell them you are concerned
about the time for payment but don't want to have your business relationship severed!
I would tell them you are still very interested in continuing the working relationship with them.
I would continue taking assignment in Feb if offered?
The worst thing that can happen to you is the company is never going to pay you again and you wind up doing 10+ signings for them in a particular month and then you know exactly where you stand (which means you are never going to work for them again).
I would get on the phone tomorrow and talk to the owner.
A Bread & Butter company like this needs to be talked to.
| Reply by LKT/CA on 2/9/10 12:24am
Msg #322016
<<<So I sent a follow up email, basically saying what I said in this post, explaining that I need the money to pay bills and didn't understand why her working an auction should delay the checks.>>>
To check on payment, I suggest emailing the following:
Hello,
Just checking on the status of payment for the John & Jane Jones loan signing completed on 2/8/10. Has payment been mailed? Thank you.
Resend that same email regularly until payment arrives. Being pleasantly annoying - by resending the email regularly - may motivate them to send payment so as to stop getting the inquiries. Who dumps someone for being pleasant and kind in an email?
It's a pleasant inquiry that will not cause anyone to become offended or get angry. I think it was a mistake to write what you wrote, you may have angered them, thus damaging the relationship.
<<< Part of me is just tired of going through this every couple of months and is ready to just start contacting the TC's and letting them know that I'm not working for the SS anymore due to the hassle of getting paid, and letting them know that I'm available directly. A lot of them know me by name and know my work already.>>>
I wouldn't do that if I were you. Sent u a P/M.
| Reply by ReneeK_MI on 2/9/10 3:26am
Msg #322019
There's a few other possible factors to consider, might not be personalized at all. Could it be there's been a change in their staff (lots of downsizing going on, maybe someone else is doing the books/checks?). Could be someones best friend/mother-in-law just started doing closings - moving you down/off the list. Could be their bread & butter client is paying slow (and that is another reality, unfortunately). Could be timing, too - your e-mail, coming right after something hugely stressful (maybe they're behind in the rent, lost a major client, who knows) ...I'm just saying, might not be as personally aimed as it feels.
Communication - tough to go wrong with it. If you were ix-nayed, better to know than to waste time wondering; if you were NOT, and there's another reason, better to know that, too.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 2/9/10 5:52am
Msg #322020
*So now I'm trying to decide how to handle it, since it seems fairly obvious to me that I'm being punished for complaining about my check being sent so late.*
Rather than calling them, you know their usual lenders, so can you look up mortgages/deeds of trust online someway to figure out if they used a different notary in your area at month end? They didn't call you during month end in January. Surely they had something. If they have been using someone else, then your answer would be clear and you can move toward new marketing tactics. It might even be fun to find out if they've done those assignments and then see if they'll tell you otherwise (assuming this is the case).
I think they've moved on to save themselves the headache of lying to a trusted notary they respect. The toilet is probably swirling around them. You have likely dodged a bullet.
Just because you've been getting paid everything that you were supposed to (finally) after calling them about your check doesn't mean everyone has been. You may have been one of the ones they desperately needed so they stayed on top of your payments. I think going directly to the TCs and Lenders to do your marketing is your next step.
I look for this signing service to begin appearing on NR in the next couple of months. The signs are there.
| Reply by RickG/CA on 2/9/10 8:30am
Msg #322021
If the company is local, I would pay them a visit. If the relationship was valued, I would much rather work out any issues face-to-face. At the very least agree part ways for now.
| Reply by CF on 2/9/10 9:34am
Msg #322032
10-20 per month is worth a phone call and some negotiating! n/m
| Reply by Yoli/CA on 2/9/10 10:10am
Msg #322044
Communication is vital. Face-to-face is preferable, if at all possible. If they're not open to discussion, it's time to immediately go to your Plan B (directly with TC, lender, etc).
You'll make the right decision. Just step back and look at the situation from "someone else's" perspective.
| Reply by mwm143 on 2/9/10 4:00pm
Msg #322104
I'm a little late on this one but the real question
is can you afford not to work for them?
| Reply by CaliNotary on 2/9/10 6:44pm
Msg #322132
Probably
So far this month I'm about where I should be financially, and I've been getting more and more work from a new title company over the past 2 months, so that would offset the loss. I guess I might even have to put a little effort into marketing myself, something that I haven't done in many many years 
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