Posted by aanotary on 2/4/10 1:24pm
Msg #321269

low pay and slow pay

bad combination~ what's up with Epic and NREIS - I can't afford to put out my money and wait 60 to 80 days to get a little of it back. I am going to stop accepting work from these losers. Not only are the making a fortune off of us. The are collecting interest on our money as well! it may only be .025% but it is still my money.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/4/10 2:15pm
Msg #321278

The same applies to all companies that seem to be operating this way now.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 2/4/10 2:49pm
Msg #321284

Like any other business, I now charge late fees for late pay

To avoid confusion on both parts, I now send a confirmation email back to ss companies when I accept a job that includes my payment terms. Net30 - which means, payment is to be received within 30 days from date services are rendered. If they pay Net 45 or Net 60 they are instructed to contact me for a quote for those terms. Due to the number of slow, late & non-payments over the last year, I also confirm that if payment is not received as agreed, late charges may be added to the balance. If it is a company I have a good relationship with and haven't had any issues with payment in the past, I will accept a phone confirmation otherwise, any new company or rarely heard from (meaning they only call me and meet my fees when they can't find anyone else) I require them to respond with agreement to payment terms before I consider the job booked. Overall, this wasn't a major issue until last year.

Knowing when I can expect payment allows me to ensure my bills are paid on time. I run a business with overhead, just like them. If I know they only pay "net45" (to most of them this means they cut the check 45 days later) or net60 I can charge appropriately and they are free to accept or decline, just as I am. It's just business.

I had one SS last year that changed their payout to "net45" - not true Net45 but their version, but did not bother to inform me of it and I accepted and completed several jobs. When I first started with them in 2006 they always paid true Net30. I informed them that if they needed to start paying net45 that would be fine, however, my fees would be increased for that payment arrangement. I was told that they would put me back on true Net30 terms. They haven't called since, but that is fine with me, I don't have to spend time hunting down my pay.

If these SS companies wish to make payment arrangements with TC's for payment in bulk 30-60 days out, that's fine. We are in business as well and our electric companies will not wait 30-60 days for payment of services they provide without late fees. I offer a professional service at a reasonable price. These SS companies that send out threats of fee deductions are the ones I have had the most trouble with last year to get my payment in the time THEY stated they would pay. If they want to threaten deductions, I have no issue charging late fees when they don't provide professionalism on their part (in the form of prompt payment for prompt services provided).

I know a lot of SS companies may read this and say "He's an ahole we're not going to use him". If so, they are the one's that can't pay on time and I don't want to put up with them anyway. The bottom line is, if a SS will stand by their word and pay as agreed, then this is not directed at you and the ones that don't are giving the good SS companies a bad reputation.

I have only had to charge one company late fees, and that was 2 years ago. The late fees totaled more than the job itself. They paid. They are on my list of non-acceptable companies now and I think they are out of business anyway. I realized late last year that if I did not have something from them showing that they agreed to the payment terms, I might have a hard time collecting late fees if I had to take them to court or collections. Also, if I have to write off the debt for taxes, I can include the late fees as part of the debt.

As far as NERIS goes, I have had very few issues with payment from them. On the few occasions when I did have an issue, they have been quick to fix it for me. I have been accepting work from them for years.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/4/10 3:17pm
Msg #321287

I recently started offering a discount for early paying...

5/10 Net 30... on some accounts.

Wouldn't you know it? Some of them actually really scramble to get the 5% discount for paying within 10 days.

It might cost a few dollars, but I get paid right away. Win-win all around. I figure it's no different that what it would cost me in merchant fees if I took credit cards.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/4/10 3:34pm
Msg #321296

I've thought about it but fortunately don't normally have

a problem with late payments - only one company now who, I found out, doesn't pay me til they get paid - didn't know that at the beginning....

Have to check my state laws with regard to imposing late fees/finance charges on services...

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 2/4/10 3:34pm
Msg #321297

Re: I recently started offering a discount for early paying...

Marian,
I like that Idea. Think I'll try that. I agree. The overall discount is well worth it to not have to spend time tracking down payments. I hope I don't have to charge any late fees this year. This an idea that might just work to ensure that.

Reply by Notarysigner on 2/4/10 3:53pm
Msg #321302

Re: I recently started offering a discount for early paying...

I had 22 signing last month from a TC pays within seven days.....no low ball either. There are good one out there.

Reply by Cari on 2/4/10 3:28pm
Msg #321292

Re: Like any other business, I now charge late fees for late pay

...."I know a lot of SS companies may read this and say "He's an ahole we're not going to use him". If so, they are the one's that can't pay on time and I don't want to put up with them anyway. The bottom line is, if a SS will stand by their word and pay as agreed, then this is not directed at you and the ones that don't are giving the good SS companies a bad reputation."

I totally agree....

Reply by Notarysigner on 2/4/10 3:44pm
Msg #321300

Re: Like any other business, I now charge late fees for late pay

I was just reading the comments and thought, Hey...there's a person behind these signing companies and we need to start getting more info about the person running it and not focus on the SS name. In SS we comment about issues but not so much the who. Of course when the "person" invades our forum we eat them up but how about being a little bit better at judging the people hiring us. How, Start asking question is one way. If they don't have time to answer maybe we should wait net 30 days before accepting assignment I feel I am at fault if I don't know who I'm working for. IMO

Reply by TRG_wy on 2/4/10 4:39pm
Msg #321316

Re: Like any other business, I now charge late fees for late pay

I have been doing this for a few years now, ever since some SSs' decided that I could wait 45-90 days for my payment. I have it stated in my auto-responder email acknowledgement. Take it or leave it but if they accept my services they accept MY terms.

I also tried the "give 'em a discount" approach for speedy payment but that failed. Mainly due to the fact that their order confirmation showed the reduced fee amount but they dragged the payment out and wouldn't adjust because the confirmation showed the lower amount; and of course it didn't mention if payment was received within xx days.

Reply by bagger on 2/4/10 3:31pm
Msg #321294

What other SUCCESFUL business operates on net 45?
THe business standard has decreased from net 30 to about net 20 over the past few years.
Just take a look at your utitlity bills!
It is time we band together and start demanding net 30 at a minimum.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 2/4/10 3:41pm
Msg #321299

When I first started, I didn't have any issue with getting Net15 on jobs. And that was TRUE Net15. I think some of these SS companies need to buy a dictionary and learn what Net XX really means. When checking on a payment in Dec. one SS told me “we pay net30". Great, but this was 37 days out and the check had just been cut the day before!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/5/10 2:46am
Msg #321364

Having run service businesses for the last 20 or so

years in the construction industry, net 60 is a norm for subs. Once you establish a working relationship, and understand the billing cycles, get in the pipelines, and budget like there's no tomorrow - you can be plenty successful. Especially when you strive to Cash and Carry.

Many consistent vendors offer a small percentage, like 2% or even 1%, off the accounts receivables in order to promote a healthy cash flow, helping to aleviate the need for unnecessary debt in a small business because wise providers know that all of those little percentages add up to huge cost-cutting steps every year.

If a small business doesn't have the resources to sustain itself for that initial 6-month 'establishment' period, budgeting like mad, and gorilla maketing every second of every day, it's a hard row to hoe, for sure.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 2/5/10 4:47pm
Msg #321494

Re: Having run service businesses for the last 20 or so

Any business is a hard row to hoe, if your receivable accounts lie and don't pay in the time frame they agreed to. If a SS says they pay Net30 -- then payment should be received on or before the 30th day. Instead, a lot of them pay Net45 or Net60 and claim to pay Net30.

I charge differently for companies that pay Net45 or Net60 than I do for companies that pay Net30. The problem comes in when you have already est a business relationship with a company and they decide to change the payment terms (and sometimes not even tell you) but want you to still do the work for the same amount. I agree with original post -- if you are going to hold my money to either make interest or use as cash flow, I charge more. Even banks don't lend money out for free. If a company is going to use my fees as a loan, pay me for it. At the very least, they could ask permission.

Whether or not my business has the cash reserves to cover expenses is not a concern for the SS companies that hire me for a signing. If the SS company doesn't have enough operating capital to pay it's subcontractors in a timely manor then it should be honest with SA's and tell them. They should also expect to pay more if they are requiring SA's to wait nearly 60 days for payment vrs a TC that pays when the loan is dispersed. Once a loan is funded -- SOMEONE is getting paid, be it the SA directly, the title company's money market fund (earning interest until paying out), the SS’s bank account or their money market fund. By law, the money is paid out to someone.

While not against the idea of offering a small % off if paid within 10 days or so, if an agreement has been made that they will pay Net30, Net45 or Net60, they should honor that. I have a few SS that I do work for that do pay Net45 and we have a good relationship. If a SS wants an automatic discount with me, pay Net30 vrs Net45. Don't tell me that your company pays Net30 and then wait 31+ days to even cut the check. It comes down to a respect issue. … I’m jumping off my soapbox now