Posted by PAW on 1/28/10 5:25pm
Msg #320042

An unfortunate situation with a signing service

Well, I guess the real Tony Negrete has shown up on my doorstep. I have worked with Tony for many years and thought very highly of him. However, after the latest fiasco with an assignment, I have a different view of him and his operation.

The situation -
Closing for Thursday, 1/28 at 4:00 PM. Tony called on Tuesday, 1/26 to see if I could take the job. After some discussion I agreed to the assignment, informing him that documents would need to be available for printing no later than 1 PM. He said that shouldn't be a problem.

When I returned to my office later that evening, I responded to the emailed confirmation with my normal reply which states, "Edocs - If documents are being provided electronically via email and/or download, the file(s) must be received at least three (3) hours prior to the scheduled appointment time."

Now it comes to 1:00 PM on Thursday, 1/28. No documents. 1:15 PM I call Negrete's Notaries to inquire as to when documents would be ready. I was told that a request has been sent to the coordinator, and that they should be ready shortly. 2:00 PM, still no docs. 2:18 PM, still no docs. I sent the following in an email, "Unless docs arrive in the next 15 minutes, I'm going to have to ask that someone else be assigned as I will not have time to print the docs."

At 2:27 PM Tony called, ranting that I can't just walk away and leave him hanging. I explained to him that he was told that I had a drop dead time of 1 pm and it already is 2:30 and I had another assignment that I had to do. There was just no time to print the package before I had to leave.

At 2:40 PM Tony posted the following statement on Merchant Circle (copied in its entirety):
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never Again

I called this man 2 days in advance to do a closing for us, he bailed 1.5
hours before the closing. he has been doing closings for many years, he is
aware that thie busniess is a last mioinute thing sometimes, and it was the
end of the month also. I will NEVER call Paul to do another closing for our
company again.

January 28, 2010 by Negrete's notary Service Inc. in Mansfield, OH
------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not the Negrete's signing service that I thought it was and admired as one of the 'good guys.' His complete disregard for the signing agent's schedules and conditions of accepting the assignment, is just unprofessional and not a business response that I expected.


This is an example of why I do not post about other signing agents, signing services or title companies experiences with assignments. You typically only get one side of an incomplete story, missing vital information.

If signing services would stand up to title companies and stop taking their tardiness, we all would be better off. I am a firm believer in the saying, "Poor planning on your part, does not create an emergency on my part!" In this particular instance, Negrete's should have informed the title company that late docs were unacceptable or they should have made other arrangements when they (the signing service) knew they could not meet the deadline.

Reply by Cari on 1/28/10 5:37pm
Msg #320044

....all I can say for now...is holy cow! n/m

Reply by Linda Juenger on 1/28/10 5:42pm
Msg #320046

It is a chain reaction. Lender is late which makes TC late which makes SS late which makes Notary late. What to do?????

Reply by notaryinmo on 1/28/10 5:53pm
Msg #320051

What I have done before is when calling for a confirmation appointment, specific instructions on directions (very rural area) is to also inform the buyer that this appointment is contingent upon me receiving the documents in time for the appointment. I also inform them that if I don't receive the documents in a timely manner, I will call them and inform them so that they can in turn call their lender. Now while I've not been a notary for nearly as long as PAW, this has worked for me and it alleviates the problem of it being my problem of not receiving the documents in time to meet the appointed time.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 1/28/10 5:43pm
Msg #320047

That's a terrible response when you advise them in advance of your stipulations for accepting an assignment!

Reply by notaryinmo on 1/28/10 8:59pm
Msg #320101

Not sure of which post you were referring to, Yoli. But if it was mine, it works for me and I've only had to deal with at at one point. I attempted to call the SS within 2 hours of the closing - which is when i told them i needed the docs to get to the appointment in time. I still didn't get them. When I called the borrower, she was quite upset and called her lender right away. Amazingingly enough, I had the docs 1/2 hours later.

Maybe if the impetus is put back on the lender/title company, we can get our docs when we need them to fit into the schedule we set for ourselves. And, yes, I'm also one of those who dont' mind a last minute if I've nothing scheduled.

As far as PAW, I've read tons and tons of advice from him and accept the fact that he will probably know more in his little finger about notarizing docs than I ever will.

As far as Tony, I've worked with him before and have never had a problem.

Reply by Vince/KS on 1/28/10 5:52pm
Msg #320050

Paul, linked your comment - hope you don't mind. They seem to have over a four star rating with very few negatives. Perhaps you will rate them differently now?

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/28/10 5:53pm
Msg #320052

geez.........

And it had to be Tony! Paul, I think this is the first time I've seen you post something like this in all the years I've been a member. This is probably a sign of things to come....

Sorry you had this experience, ty for sharing

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/29/10 6:44am
Msg #320150

Bottom line: If you are a notary who wants to work for Tony, then do. But don't scold Paul and tell him to "work it out" or how to work out EOM scheduling problems. That's like telling Steve Jobs how to build a better smartphone.

Some of the posts in this thread take the cake. (Thanks for letting me tack on here, Sue.)

Reply by John/CT on 1/28/10 5:56pm
Msg #320053

Ouch!! Where's Tony?? Hello .... n/m

Reply by Negrete on 1/28/10 6:00pm
Msg #320055

Negrete's Notary Service Inc. Response to Paul Williams.

This is a very unfortunate situation. I did in fact call Paul like he said well in advance. I also told Paul that we may get the documents late, but that I would do my best to get the documents on time.

Now if it takes you 1.5 hours to print and drive 10 miles to a signing then you need to get into a different line of work. In this busniess at the end of the month you have to make room for late documents.

I still stand by what I said about you Paul, never again. You are 100% correct, I have worked with you for many years, and you have never treated me the way you did on this closing. If 1.5 hours is not enough time then maybe you should get a better printer or maybe a better car to get to the closings.

If anyone would like to discuss this please call me and I will be glad to talk about it.

Anthony J Negrete
Negrete's Notary Service Inc.
419-524-1600

www.chasenotary.com

Reply by Negrete on 1/28/10 6:02pm
Msg #320056

Re: Negrete's Notary Service Inc. Response to Paul Williams.

And this is not the first time that Paul has bailed on me with short notice.

Reply by John/CT on 1/28/10 6:12pm
Msg #320060

Trashing Paul here, Tony, doesn't reflect well on ...

your otherwise very good reputation. BTW, my reading of this episode tells me your 4 o'clock followed an earlier one Paul had. Ergo, the need for dox early. Am I correct, Paul?

Reply by Negrete on 1/28/10 6:14pm
Msg #320061

Re: Trashing Paul here, Tony, doesn't reflect well on ...

Read the whole story please.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/28/10 6:47pm
Msg #320066

I read it..

and he said "he was told that I had a drop dead time of 1 pm and it already is 2:30 and I had another assignment that I had to do. There was just no time to print the package before I had to leave"

It's not just the printing - I don't know what Paul does but I know I don't just print and run - I review the package and set it up - I just got done sitting down for about 2 hours with my package for tomorrow morning - and I know around here 10 miles takes me 20-25 minutes depending on traffic - and heaven forbid school is getting out.

All due respect Tony but he told you - you can't say he bailed on you - you knew!! He advised you in advance what was required for him to be able to do the signing for you - you can't assume your job was the only one he had - from what I'm reading it wasn't...

MHO

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/28/10 6:58pm
Msg #320071

I read the whole story

And Tony, you come off as a whiny pr!ck.

He gave you his terms, you accepted them, you couldn't get docs to him in time, he bailed. Nothing wrong with that, you don't get to monopolize our entire day when you give us a signing. And you know damn well that it's normal for us to have several signings in a day, especially at EOM. Just because you got the docs to him an hour and a half before the signing doesn't mean he was sitting in front of his computer to print them out. So please spare us the naive act.

From our end, it goes with the territory that we're gonna have to deal with docs being sent at the last minute or after the scheduled appointment time. From YOUR end it goes with the territory that not all signing agents are going to be willing or able to throw the rest of their day into disarray to accommodate the TC or lender that isn't doing their job properly and getting docs to us in a reasonable timeframe, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE SIGNING AGENT TELLS YOU EXACTLY WHAT THAT TIMEFRAME IS.

You owe Paul an apology. And in the future, it would behoove you to appreciate the signing agents that ARE willing to adjust their schedule to get these late doc signings done for you, and realize that we're doing you a courtesy by doing it. It's not a requirement, so stop throwing public tantrums as if it were.

Reply by Laura_V on 1/29/10 1:01am
Msg #320146

Re: Trashing Paul here, Tony, doesn't reflect well on ...

Hi, Tony

You know I have been telling ppl for years that your SS is prob the last honest one left. (Sorry for abbrev. Injured finger.)

I have a temper that is volcanic so I know how things can go wrong in a heartbeat.

Plus I have no idea how you run an SS with all those awful LOs and TCs.

I don't know if your rep can recover here on NotRot. Perhaps if you changed your name but when you get busted, that will be seen as deceptive, too.

It's the Merchant Circle aspect that tanked you. Oooops. Posting on the web can be bad for someone with a temper. I have to actually get up and walk outside with the dog some days to stop myself.

Lots of top notaries on NotRot are high maintenance. If I had given you a 3 hour window with drop dead wording for 1pm, it would have been for a darn good reason. Like medical report notarization for couple adopting baby from Russia before doing your signing. (I've done tons of those involving various countries.) Since the doc can be late, I had to leave a wide window between those appts and the next ones on the same day.

You are right: this industry is nuts. Notaries and taxi drivers are tons alike. No one remembers they need us until 20 beforehand. And our schedule changes with virtually every phone call. Some ppl can roll with it. But the best notaries are super nerds. Nerds have a hard time rolling with change.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you a diff pt of view. Some temper flares take me days to sort out. This might be the case with you. I'm a gal so I dunno about guys.

I made my first notary error in over 5 years last week. H1N1 is a darn good excuse but still is just an excuse. I'm phoning tomorrow morn to personally apologize. (I already made right with client's TC.)

Good luck and know that some of us non-flamers out there do see both sides. I hope you get some good ideas when you come out of post-EOM coma.

LauraV

Reply by PAW on 1/28/10 6:49pm
Msg #320068

Re: Negrete's Notary Service Inc. Response to Paul Williams.

Excuse me! I don't remember ever not completing an assignment for you when I accepted it. Please tell me when and what circumstances.

Reply by Negrete on 1/28/10 6:51pm
Msg #320069

Take my phone call Paul. n/m

Reply by PAW on 1/28/10 6:49pm
Msg #320067

Re: Negrete's Notary Service Inc. Response to Paul Williams.

As I told you, I had other commitments that I could not break or change. You choose to ignore my schedule, knowing that I could not keep waiting and waiting. I had other things to do. You are not the only business that I had, and you know what, I really won't miss it either.

Good luck to you and your endeavors.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/28/10 7:19pm
Msg #320077

Here's the problem...

"Now if it takes you 1.5 hours to print and drive 10 miles to a signing then you need to get into a different line of work. In this busniess at the end of the month you have to make room for late documents."

Tony, it is, frankly, NONE of your business to assume where a signing agent is located or how far their drive is. You cannot assume that the individual does not have other obligations or issues to deal with or what procedures they might have in place to ensure a perfect signing. I always review and prepare my files before I start a signing - I am not one to print and run at all. I take pride is a very careful and well done signing. The way I do that is none of your concern or that of any service. There are terms you agree to and if you can't meet them, why get angry? Seriously? Your anger is misdirected.

You're not dealing with an employee... but another business, and you should treat him (and all your notaries) as such. Paul's policy includes a 3-hour drop dead time and you were aware of it. You had an agreement and you failed to make other arrangements once that deadline passed. Paul was being nice even considering still doing the job after his time limit. I would have kicked it back well before he did.

Signing services and Title/Escrow companies are the ones who have developed the "nature" of the industry. Notaries do not have to accept it, and it's high time we all started setting these drop dead times. I know I have them, and so do others. I have other responsibilities, clients and things to deal with that do not involve waiting with baited breath for some office lackey to drop her Doritos and get her job done. There is NO excuse for the "nature" of this industry as it is now... and the item you posted above is a gleaming example of the problem. You assume that we can do something... you assume that we're just hanging out. Wrong.

When you FAIL to honor your agreement, the notary has every right to make other plans.

I know I will NEVER, EVER accept a loan signing 1.5 hours before the appointment. I don't care if it's my next door neighbor. I have a drop dead time and if there are no docs, there is no job. It's that simple. Either that, or I be allowed to set the appointment myself. I'm a big girl... you give me documents and I can figure out how to find the borrower and set the appointment. Why are TC's and services allowed to dictate to us our appointments anyway? Shouldn't we be allowed to set our own schedule? Give the assignment and let us do our job for goodness sake.

The attitude expressed in Tony's post is actually just another example of the signing services melting down as of late (hello last week!). It's good that you're admitting what we already know about the attitudes of services who want to hire us ---- that notaries are the bottom feeding scum who have nothing better to do than wait for your (or your clients) to get their acts together.

Why should the notary take the hit for something they didn't do? YOU knew the terms and you're upset with him? Perhaps your anger needs to be directed to the company who caused the documents to be late in the first place.

I know this post will likely blackball my name from your service... but that's okay. I've never done anything for you... and while I'd always heard nothing but good, I won't lie and say that I'm not bothered by this, because I am.

I think it is really unprofessional of you to have said what you did, to someone who is one of the most respected veterans in our business. I agree with the others that you owe him an apology. You knew the terms and made a fatal assumption.

Reply by Vince/KS on 1/28/10 7:49pm
Msg #320086

And, if a company is advised in advance, most typically ask

for a drop dead time and pass it on to the vendor. In this case, the notary advised as he always does in his acceptance of the condition and extended it - but only to a certain point to help you, but to also go beyond his commitment.

It does not fare well for you that he is a professional and as such has other assignments that he cannot and/or would not work around. Where this is highly unusual is that both the service and the notary until now have enjoyed good, if not excellent reputations. I'd guess that one is going to walk away from this far more hurt than the other but it also appears as though at least some damage will be incurred by both. It’s really too bad for one of you more than the other that any of us are aware of this scenario.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/28/10 8:03pm
Msg #320093

One more thing about assumptions...

Distance means NOTHING.

When I lived in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles, the idea of driving 10 miles would make my head spin, especially if it meant driving anytime between 4 and 7pm. A drive that far in that area can take 1.5 hours if there is an accident or SigAlert on the freeway. Even something as simple as a Dodger game will screw up traffic for hours.

Whereas in other places, a 10-mile drive is a piece of cake through open roads where you can drive 75MPH.

You just cannot assume that distance means anything. Nor can you rely on zip code to code distances. Seriously... you can't. Every single day I 'm telling people that yes, my zip code is 93535 but no, I'm not down the street. In fact, I'm over 30 miles away... if I'm at home. If I'm on the west side of town (as I often am) that's even farther, and through city traffic.

Reply by Notarysigner on 1/28/10 7:41pm
Msg #320081

Re: Negrete's Notary Service Inc. Response to Paul Williams.

Sound like you ought to take your own advice. If Paul or anybody else used a printing apparatus like Benjamin Franklin it's not your concern is it or am I missing something. It take me 1 hour to drive on any given day sometimes, that why I need my Docs early. How about changing the word "Bail" to "standing up to one's values"?

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/28/10 7:51pm
Msg #320088

Re: Negrete's Notary Service Inc. Response to Paul Williams.

<<<Now if it takes you 1.5 hours to print and drive 10 miles to a signing then you need to get into a different line of work.....I have worked with you for many years, and you have never treated me the way you did on this closing. If 1.5 hours is not enough time then maybe you should get a better printer or maybe a better car to get to the closings.>>>

Those are snide comments and I too believe you owe Paul an apology. What does his printer or car have to do with anything? Paul is one of the most professional, knowledgeable and helpful posters on this forum and I do believe he informed you well in advance of the signing when he needed the edocs. You should not have panicked, but remained calm. 5 Star Notaries (like Paul) know other 5 Star Notaries and may have even recommended someone to take his place.

Tony, there's an adage that goes like this: "Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.* Let this incident be the catalyst to creating "Plan B". There are Notaries who have no problem whatsoever with very last minute calls. If you give them 20 minutes to print, review, and head out the door to the borrowers - they're good to go. Others need docs 3 hours before the appointment. Get to know the Notaries that work with you, that way if/when a job is returned due to late dates or any other emergency, you'll know several Notaries in each town that would be willing to do a signing "right now", so to speak. It would also work well to know whether the borrowers are flexible if docs are late. If you know THAT, plus which Notaries can take a job at the drop of a hat, then all will work out.

This incident should NOT be the end of your working relationship with a 5 Star Notary like Paul. Tony, do something to repair this.....an apology would be a positive start.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/28/10 7:56pm
Msg #320090

I agree with Lisa here. n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 1/28/10 8:17pm
Msg #320100

Re: Negrete's Notary Service Inc. Response to Paul Williams.

"I have worked with you for many years, and you have never treated me the way you did on this closing."

And how did he treat you? He gave you a drop dead time for the docs to get to him. If you couldn't get the docs to him by the deadline then it was up to you to find someone else and not expect Paul to dance to your fiddle.

Paul is one of the best signing agents (if not THE best)that has ever done signings for me.

Your loss, Tony!

Reply by desktopfull on 1/28/10 6:04pm
Msg #320057

Sounds like another hit & run by Tony, remember him

denying setting up that website to report deadbeats and posting the link, it was later discovered that he was the owner of the website and he got all upset and left notrot because we jumped all over him for the deception. That incident showed me who and what Tony Negrete was and I have never worked for him and quite frankly don't want to either.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/28/10 6:05pm
Msg #320058

This is disappointing, Paul...

It would have been better left alone by Tony. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip and you can't cancel on a sure appointment when the docs "might" come on a second one. I'm sorry you experienced this.

Reply by Michelle/AL on 1/28/10 6:05pm
Msg #320059

PAW, did Tony post his comments on YOUR Merchant

Circle listing as a rating of your services; or did he post his comments as part of HIS listing? I'm just curious. I'm really shocked by Tony's decision to post what he did where he did. MerchantCircle has high visibility on the internet. I take issue with him making it so public, especially since you had an existing and positive business relationship with him.

I don't see what you did wrong here. You definitely covered all your basis.

I think I'm going to send someone a "thank you" email tonight. Today a similar situation happened to me. I had a 12 noon closing. At 10:50 I received a call from the SS asking me if I can do the closing at 1pm instead. I said yes. 12:30 still no loan docs. I send an email to the SS letting her know that my portable laser printer is "down" so I'll need loan docs before I can leave my office. I also told her the latest I could start the appointment would be 1:30 pm due to my other meetings. I apologized and told her I'd understand if she reassigned the closing to someone else. I get an email telling me she "understood, no problem and she'll keep me in mind for the next one".

That's how it's supposed to go. To my knowledge she hasn't blasted me on MerchantCircle or anywhere else.

I'm really sorry this happened to you, PAW. You didn't deserve that kind of treatment.

Reply by Cari on 1/28/10 6:35pm
Msg #320063

perfect example of why SS should always have a backup...

"If signing services would stand up to title companies and stop taking their tardiness, we all would be better off. Agree. Seems that for some SS, once the closing is scheduled, they just disappear and are not heard of again, not even for payment!

I am a firm believer in the saying, "Poor planning on your part, does not create an emergency on my part!" True, and its unfortunate that in this biz, there's lots of poor planning, sometimes on both the part of the nsa and SS.

In this particular instance, Negrete's should have informed the title company that late docs were unacceptable or they should have made other arrangements when they (the signing service) knew they could not meet the deadline." I agree in that other arrangements should've been made....back up plan.

Tony, ur right, in that in this business, especially EOM it gets hectic and delays happen. We all know and expect this. However, if you were advised via email that he needed those docs by a certain time, IMO, you should've forwarded that email to the TC or lender and started calling around for another nsa as a back up.

I do not believe that just because we (nsa's) are assigned a closing, that there's some automatic clause that says, "now wait around mindlessly for docs, sometimes for more than an hour, two or even three." And unfortunately, this is the mindset of some SS/TC!

NSA's can not afford to sit around and wait for docs, beyond a reasonable amount of time, and potentially miss other closings due to the failure of a SS/TC making sure docs were sent to the nsa! Paul did what he had to do.

Tony, you made this personal, and you should've kept this on this forum, not on the open Internet, and kept it strictly business.

I'm sorry that this happened to both of you. Losing business and a great nsa is not a good way to start the year....

Reply by Negrete on 1/28/10 6:42pm
Msg #320065

I got it closed.

I got it closed.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 1/28/10 6:57pm
Msg #320070

I have carefully read both sides ....

of this story, trying to be completely neutral and unbiased, and can clearly say after all is said and done, if I were a judge: Negrete, you suck - on ALL counts. And worse, you seem to have no idea how bad you look and how lame your "defense."

Reply by Notarysigner on 1/28/10 9:07pm
Msg #320102

Make it right, we're all rooting for ya! n/m

Reply by CF on 1/28/10 7:43pm
Msg #320083

I had to give one back today too....it has been a long time

since I had to this. I was suppose to have a 5pm - near 1 hour drive time round trip. Great going to work out perfect for my schedule. I Should have been home 1 hour before I had to leave. Need to be back and go to my son's school open house by 7:15. I give them a drop dead and still could have accommodated it at 6pm and meet my husband and son at the school a few minutes late. But they still could not deliver the docs...I had to give it back.

My schedule can not be held hostage for their timing issues. No way will late docs take the place of mine or my families personal life. You have to make hard decisions being in business. That is just the way it is. Yes, I felt bad but it was understood by the scheduler. Not only that the borrower had left work early....and they were po-ed.

Reply by dickb/wi on 1/28/10 6:59pm
Msg #320072

that makes 2 of us he won't send busines to paul........

i had a run in with tony back in novenber of 2005 in which he accused me of losing a title co acct of his because i screwed up and refused to pay me........i have in my possessioon a letter from the title co telling me that he didn't lose the acct because of me and that my work was very good and they sent me a copy of the check that they had paid him for the acct and that they would use me for any more signings in my area. when i confronted tony he wanted proof. i told him if i didn't get paid i would post it on not rot....he sent me my check along with a hand written post it saying "i dare you to post it"......so i kept my mouth shut for 4 years [not because of his note, because i don't scare that easy, but because he did pay me when he knew i had direct info from the title co.] but the minute something doesn't go his way with paul he posts it in a most unprofessional manner.....now you all know where the bear sh--s in the buckwheat. it has been hard not to throw up every time i see him being praisedbecause he is such a nice guy and straight shooter, but now we all know the real tony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/28/10 7:10pm
Msg #320074

Wow. n/m

Reply by Jim Habicht on 1/28/10 7:28pm
Msg #320078

Re: that makes 2 of us he won't send busines to paul........

I've been in the business for 7 years and I've have concluded that Signing Services suck and only look out for themselves. I'm sick and tired of hearing the same old story when trying to get paid: because I have not been paid, you don't get paid, or something like it. I started with a signing service, but slowly began to work directly with title companies. Now most of my income is work directly with the title company. It took time, and had a rotation of new accounts and done work for many signing services and in the end, Signing Serivces pay low, slow in pay, not flexible, and are pain in the ass to deal with. They have so many closings to deal with that they have no time to be normal when the heat is on. I wish that every signing agent would boycott all signing services for one month, and then the title company would have to make a call directly to the Signing Agent. Maybe we could start a tea party effort against all Signing Services? Just thinking

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 1/28/10 8:13pm
Msg #320098

Re: that makes 2 of us he won't send busines to paul........

"Signing Serivces pay low, slow in pay, not flexible, and are pain in the ass to deal with"

Like any other business, there are good ones and bad ones.
Cannot tar all of them with the same brush.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/28/10 8:14pm
Msg #320099

Sylvia's right... there are some good ones out there still. n/m

Reply by PAW on 1/28/10 7:35pm
Msg #320079

Re: that makes 2 of us he won't send busines to paul........

I vaguely remember something about that. Seems that the sheep's clothing is getting more tattered as time goes on.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 1/28/10 7:47pm
Msg #320084

Marian in CA said it best............... n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/29/10 12:54pm
Msg #320216

Re: that makes 2 of us he won't send busines to paul........

Sorry it happened Paul, I have turned down work from Tony because of the way I perceived his NotRot persona. I really don't like SS and I've been quite vocal about it in the past. i realize that SS are around and yes there are a few good ones but for the most part they really bring little to the table. I'm have no doubt atinuedbout your con success minus one small SS.

Reply by MW/VA on 1/28/10 7:48pm
Msg #320085

Really unfortunate!

Wow! I'm just blown away that Paul & Tony are calling each other out in public.
These are two people I've looked up to for the integrity both are known for.
What a shame for everyone involved. EOM or not, Paul clearly has a policy on late docs.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/28/10 8:05pm
Msg #320095

I, too, am surprised it's Paul. But, I'm proud of him.

I know Becca would that she was straightforward... but this is a good example of "telling it like it is." If Paul, of all people, was upset enough to make this public... it means something.

Reply by John Schenk on 1/28/10 9:38pm
Msg #320116

Don't have a drop dead time up front...

but maybe I should. If they fail to get the docs to me at least 45 minutes in advance of the closing, then I'm rescheduling. It takes me approximately 30 minutes to print, and go over a BOA loan, which are usually 186 pages, and to fill in my info in advance of the signing. Other lenders I can do in a shorter period of time.

If I'm headed to another signing before that, they're screwed, and I have to call the BO and tell them I'm gonna be late...Got another signing before you, and sometimes after you, and the docs are late, so I'll just have to work you in as I can, and let them know that instead of being 5:30, I'll be there at 8:30, or whatever. I let the borrowers know that there's a problem with the HUD, or waiting for final approval on it, which is usually what it is, and they're usually fine with that, though not always the case.

It's a rarity for me to have docs 3 hours before a closing, although I certainly don't think that setting that deadline is unreasonable, but it's more of a deadline than I'd be willing to set. Paul went considerably past his deadline, and then pulled out, which I certainly think is fine. Somebody posted they spend 2 hours going over the docs before they go meet the borrowers...NO WAY for me...I'd never do that! I'm not here to memorize them...I'm here to get them signed. I can do a 186 page BOA loan advance prep, fill in all my info I can in advance of the closing, in 30 minutes. I print out the first set, and go to work, and let the second set print out while I'm working on filling in all my stuff.

I think there has to be some consideration for the lenders and TCs at the EOM. They're getting pushed to close them BF the EOM, and although we're admittedly down the food chain, I always try to work one in at EOM.

I can see both sides of the argument. I don't have a line drawn in the sand to get me the docs 3 hours in advance of a closing, and I don't accept getting docs 30 minutes before a closing, although I work with that when I can.

I think if they're gonna get in late, I just notify the borrower that I have other closings, the docs for their closing are late, and I will hopefully be able to close their loan after my other closings are done. Keeps me from losing that closing, most of the time, and what happens, happens. I get back and the docs are there, I tell the BO that I have the docs now, and if you still want to do it, I'll print them out. If they don't want to do that, then I'm done and they can re-date them for the next day. Not my fault the docs were late, and especially true EOM.

I don't think it wise to cut ties with a company you have had a relationship for many years that has paid you well, over a single closing that the docs were late. Lenders and TC's and SS's normally get slammed EOM, and that is more a push by the lenders (LO's) than anyone else. EOM is a bit of a different ball of wax, IMO. I think it demands a little more flexibility. Not saying that Negrete was right, as he wasn't, but you gotta look at both sides.

Paul's cutoff time is clear, so it is what is. Negrete thought...screw that, docs aren't here yet so Paul is still on the hook, even an hour and a half after his cutoff. Well, that isn't how it was, although Paul increased his cut-off by about an hour and a half, or so.

I personally think Negrete shouldn't lose a great notary, and that they should work this out in private. Talk, fellas! Just a bad day, and you guys should be able to keep this relationship you have had for so long. Sit back...relax...and work this out.

Great SA's are hard to come by for a SS, and a good SS that pays is equally as hard to come by. Work it out, fellas!

JMO

JJ

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/28/10 9:43pm
Msg #320118

John, I didn't real all this because, frankly, it's too late

BUT I always e-mail the hiring party when I've confirmed with borrowers - it's then that I tell them "Confirmed with borrowers for 6:00; I'll need docs no later than 3:15 or 3:30 to keep this appointment time". It's also then I let them know things like "Your confirmation shows only one name; please note the borrower is married and his/her name is <<whatever>>" or any other things I've learned in the confirmation call.

They now know this is when I need the docs to keep the appt YOU set - if you can't make this, let me know and authorize me to paly with the time.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/28/10 9:46pm
Msg #320119

Meant "read" - told you it was late..:) n/m

Reply by jnew on 1/29/10 11:29am
Msg #320201

Re: Meant "read" - told you it was late..:)

One of the costs of doing business is somewhat hidden but always has to be factored in. It is opportunity cost. The loss of potential business due to mismanagement of time. It is a real cost. How many closings have you turned down because of a time confict and then have the time opened up because of a delay by the TC and sometimes lost the late deal as well because the BO are now not available. Timing is crucial to this business and the producers should be aware of it.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/28/10 11:07pm
Msg #320138

We all know that a SS has no control over when the docs arrive.
In today’s market if a SS tells their Title Company customer: “If we don’t get docs at least 3-4 hours before the scheduled signing appointment we won’t do it.” Title will just move on to another SS. (there’s a new one out there almost daily)
Paul has the right to run his business as he likes. He told Tony he had to have the docs by a certain time or he could not do the signing.
Although the late docs were not Tony’s fault, when Paul’s shut off time occurred he should have just started to schedule someone else to do the job. EOM can be trying on us all, and it’s difficult to schedule last minute signings, but it’s a part of this business.
In this case I must side with Paul, he said what he could do, and did it.
I have worked with Tony for years, I like working with him, and will continue to do so in the future.
This business tends to get personal, it shouldn’t, it’s just business.
I’m sorry for both guys!

Reply by Notarysigner on 1/29/10 10:13am
Msg #320185

Well said, I work for a Title Co who sets their own signing time and often they don't get the Docs to me by the time they told the borrowers I would be bringing the Docs. They then have to reschedule the signing time. I guess you know how the borrowers feel about that title company by the time I get there. LOL

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 1/29/10 3:57pm
Msg #320279

I've only ever done a few signings for Tony, and I respect what PAW contributes. However, I wonder how much air play the subject would have had if Tony were a fly-by-night company and PAW was a newbie?

I now only sign for individuals because of the fees being offered and the cut-throats that accept the fees. However,when I was signing regularly, I, too, had a drop-dead time, although my drop-dead time meant just that. If I said I had to have documents by 1:00 and 1:00 came and I didn't have the docs, I simply informed the company that I was no longer available, and for them to find someone else. Cut and dry.

On one hand PAW had a drop-dead time, but on the other hand he didn't. At 1:00 he didn't say, "I can't do the job." At 1:15 he called inquiring about the docs. An hour and 18 minutes past his original deadline, he emails giving another 15 minute deadline. This reminds me of a parent disciplining a child -- don't do that again or such and such is going to happen and the next time the child does it, the parent replies again, don't do that again or such and such will happen. I can't say what Tony's schedulers were saying, but it's possible it might have been -- well, it's an hour-and-a-half past what he told us and he hasn't said no, so let's just see how far we can push the envelope.

As for Tony posting on Merchant's Circle, I think that was a little overboard. Sheesh, if every company I gave signings back because I didn't have the documents, posted that I turned the signing back, there'd be volumes -- the same with the ones telling me I'd never work in this town again ... until their next emergency.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/29/10 6:49pm
Msg #320312

*On one hand PAW had a drop-dead time, but on the other hand he didn't. At 1:00 he didn't say, "I can't do the job." At 1:15 he called inquiring about the docs. An hour and 18 minutes past his original deadline, he emails giving another 15 minute deadline. This reminds me of a parent disciplining a child -- don't do that again or such and such is going to happen and the next time the child does it, the parent replies again, don't do that again or such and such will happen. I can't say what Tony's schedulers were saying, but it's possible it might have been -- well, it's an hour-and-a-half past what he told us and he hasn't said no, so let's just see how far we can push the envelope.*

Only it's not a child/parent situation. It was a business arrangement. In business, extensions on contractual agreements are a common way of getting deals done. Tony/child pushing Paul/parent is a little far of a reach for me. Paul extended a deadline. Maybe even as a courtesy. Maybe to suit his own schedule. If it was taken advantage of that's not on Paul. In business it would be seen as at attempt at being flexible.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 1/29/10 10:12pm
Msg #320350

Okay - parent/child discipline was probably a bad choice. The point I was trying to get across was Paul kept extending his deadline. If I were a scheduler though, I'd question the seriousness of Paul's deadline after 30 to 45 minutes, let alone 1-1/2 hours. He allowed it to happen, so no, I don't feel Paul was taken advantage of (except for Tony's posting on Merchant Circle or whatever it's called), nor do I feel that Paul left Tony in the lurches because they still had 1-1/2 hours to find another signer. It happens all the time -- it's part of the business.

Reply by PAW on 1/30/10 8:04am
Msg #320365

The only reason I was able to extend the deadline was because I was successful in changing the time for another commitment. I told Tony that when I called the second time, thus allowing him more time to get the documents together. Had I not been able to adjust my schedule to accommodate the late docs, I would have told him on the first call.

The point is, that more often than not, we signing agents provide as much flexibility as we can to handle late documents. However, there are times when there's no flexibility or the schedule has been bent and there's no flexibility left.

There was no mistaking my "seriousness" of the deadline. That's when it all came unglued. There was no misunderstanding or lack of communication, just his choosing to ignore my schedule. Like many other schedulers, they think we only have their one appointment. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 1/30/10 9:12pm
Msg #320405

From what I'm reading, Paul was as flexible as possible in this situation. The fact that he extended his cut off time should not be counted as a negative against him but as a positive. It appears that he even went a step beyond by changing his next appointment, with approval. It seems like he was trying to work with a company that he had a good relationship with. If he wanted to leave him hanging, he could have just turned the closing back to them right away or wait until the docs were ready, then tell him that he had another appointment and would not be available (not professional to do so and I DON’T believe Paul would ever do this).

EOM means that we all have more booked appointments and SS companies should understand that. Unless one company has booked an entire day (and that never happens) they should understand that if lender or title does not get the docs out in time, SA's don't have as much flexibility in our schedule at EOM as we do on the 5th of the month. I have waited on late docs and been in the same situation. Sometimes I am able to wait on them till they arrive and others I am not. I always let them know how much flexibility I have in my schedule. It's just business.

I think it was just a bad day for Tony and unfortunately he didn't react very well to the situation. I think his anger got the better of him and he posted something that was not professional and in the end doesn't reflect very well on him.

It's been a few years since I have done some work for him, but as I recall, all went well and I was paid as agreed and on time. Considering his overall track record, I would not have any issues accepting work from him. Of course, if my schedule is tight and I have to enforce my cut off time, I will make very sure he understood that prior to me accepting the job. After all, it's just business.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/31/10 1:17am
Msg #320411

Paul, I think you pretty well summed it up here:

"...we signing agents provide as much flexibility as we can to handle late documents. However, there are times when there's no flexibility or the schedule has been bent and there's no flexibility left."

If you bend *anything* far enough, it will eventually break. BTW, it occurs to me that I can only remember (the key word here...) two occasions where I had to turn back assignments because of late docs and the inability to find another workable solution. However, I can't count the number of times I've had appointments canceled on me last minute, leaving me essentially "unemployed" during a prime signing time "slot". The problem hits two ways. Regardless of which side of the situation we find ourselves on, it's something no one likes, but we all have to deal with from time to time.