Posted by brass/LA on 1/1/10 10:17am
Msg #316342

Fax Backs

If it is a requirement from Bank of America that critical docs be faxed to the title company before shipping, and if the original docs can be dropped at Fed Ex/UPS in time for next morning delivery, then what is the purpose of faxing the critical docs?

What would the title company do with these faxed critical docs that they could not do with the original docs that would be received the next morning? Most refinance transactions have a three day recission period so time is not of the essence.

I'd really like someone who has experience in title work to enlighten me on this!

Reply by Les_CO on 1/1/10 10:46am
Msg #316345

UPS and FedEx have been known to lose, or misplace packages. Some notaries have been known to put FedEx’s in UPS boxes, or the reverse. Or put a UPS label on a FedEx envelope, or the reverse.
Some companies will fund on faxes.
The primary reason for fax-backs is QC. Notaries make mistakes. The Fax-backs enable the Title Company to catch these mistakes quickly, and try to get them corrected same day.
I hate fax-backs too. For me I usually have to drive past the UPS or FedEx store, go to my office, dig through the package, send the faxes, drive BACK to the courier service, and then go back to my office. I figure fax-backs take me an additional 30 minutes to an hour.

Reply by desktopfull on 1/1/10 10:51am
Msg #316346

I don't Fax, I scan to PDF file and email n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 11:00am
Msg #316347

The point is having to return to the office,

scan/e-mail or fax and then wait...then, at least for me, incur another 30 mile trip just to drop the package (I don't necessarily have appointments every day that put me near a viable UPS/FedEx drop location - drop boxes almost non-existant around me). For me, that's an additional fee.

That thread that discussed BofA's new requirements - my thought was what kind of notaries are they getting that they need that heavy QC in advance...and I think Les is right - that's what it is...what bothers me about it is the company is saying you'll jump through these hoops and we will NOT compensate you for it any longer...tells me they've had significant problems.

MHO

Reply by pan/nd on 1/1/10 11:07am
Msg #316350

Re: The point is having to return to the office,

I should add..there's an exception to all this...and that is a loan that must fund (for various

reasons on the day of signing or the day after --if an evening signing.

Normally...one knows about that ahead of time (but not always).

Then, you're pretty much stuck.

Fortunately...my experience is it doesn't happen often.

Reply by Notarysigner on 1/1/10 11:29am
Msg #316353

Re: The point is having to return to the office,

I never drop pkgs off, I go to a shipping center ( I know, convenient for me ) because I want a receipt. If they want a Faxback I call them from Fedex and ask them to give THEIR credit card info to the salesperson and FexEx can bill them for the cost. They usually will say, never mind.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 12:54pm
Msg #316357

Yep...I always drop packages at manned facilities... n/m

Reply by TRG_wy on 1/2/10 8:19am
Msg #316397

Re: Yep...I always drop packages at manned facilities... M2 n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/2/10 10:18am
Msg #316406

If you are getting alot of these, and you have a laptop

It would be to your advantage to invest in small, portable multi-function (sheet-fed) machine.
I got one for this purpose only (a used inkjet Brother MFC) for $20, and keep it in the vehicle when I am working for this particular company. I scan the whole package, or whatever portion they need, drop the original, and send the scanned package when I find a free internet connection.
With this company, it is also my responsibility to get copies of their ID's, and the machine handles copies, too.
I have spent the last year working with a company doing new home sales, and funding occurs same day, so they need the executed package immediately. It has certainly been worth the investment to me, as this company has pretty much been my bread and butter for 2009.
This company doesn't hesitate to refer me to other TC's, (they say) because I can accommodate this requirement.

Reply by Julie/MI on 1/1/10 5:05pm
Msg #316370

Linda H/FL

Linda,

I agree with you on so many things, that I rarely have to post!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 5:33pm
Msg #316371

ROFL Julie...:) n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 1/2/10 11:13am
Msg #316407

Re: The point is having to return to the office,

Fortunately, I don't have to go that far to drop, but it's a about 8 miles rt+gas+time, etc. definate added expense to compensate for those companies that seem to be using the newbies that will take a closing at any price to get some experience and their foor in the door (so to speak). They mess up and we get to suck up this handholding expense even though they are paying the experienced NSA's fees when they can't get anyone cheap to do their closings.

Reply by pan/nd on 1/1/10 11:00am
Msg #316348

Les provided one view....I'll provide another.

Fax backs are a pain in the (whatever you choose).

If I know about them up front I act accordingly..(either charge more or say no)

Should I ask about them with every caller? Probably, but I don't.

If Title or SS isn't upfront about faxbacks and want a ton faxed back...they get my note

when I fax stuff back................


The note says.........

I fax 15 pages free of charge. Any more than that is a $25 flat fee. Therefore the

faxbacks have been edited to remain within those parameters.

If you want it all...it's another $25.!!!

Some...want 40-50 pages faxed back....they don't get 'em....they get 15 plus the note.....

Never have heard a peep from anyone on this....so far they take the 15 and run with

their tail between their legs.

In many cases if you can drop the docs the same day..they'll waive the faxing..but you have

to ask....it's not automatic and the answer isn't always yes.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 11:04am
Msg #316349

How do you determine which 15 pages to send and which ones not to send? IMO you've been lucky that this hasn't blown up in your face...e.g. you fax the first 15 with your note, they respond with "not good enough, we need it all and no extra payment will be made" - you refuse and drop package - they don't pay you or they dock your pay for noncompliance.

MHO

Reply by pan/nd on 1/1/10 11:14am
Msg #316351

Never happened in 11 years of doing this.

for example...if they want the mtg....they get the first...signature and last pages...and not

the other 13 pages (whether initialed or not)

The 1003...many times several of those pages don't need initials..or signatures...I don't

fax those.

You may think it's dangerous.....but I'm comfortable with it and I've never had it blow up in my

face.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 11:29am
Msg #316352

pfftt...and I get my pay docked for attaching a Florida-compliant certificate...yeesh

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/1/10 6:04pm
Msg #316373

How many notaries do you have within 20 miles of you??? n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 6:13pm
Msg #316374

Who, Janet...me? n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/1/10 6:26pm
Msg #316376

No, that was for pan/nd

I'm thinking that if pan/nd happens to be from an area that isn't as saturated as some of the rest of us, it might be easier to get away with those kinds of things. In my area, it's all too easy to just go the the next name on the list. There seems to be an infinite supply of "NEXT!" Much easier to dictate terms to a client when you don't have tons and tons of competition. I'm just sayin'....

Reply by desktopfull on 1/2/10 11:18am
Msg #316408

What pages of your "1003's" don't require signatures or initials? I've never had a "1003" that didn't require a signature or initials and sometimes both on every page.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/2/10 11:59am
Msg #316413

I've had numerous 1003's that only require signatures

on page 1 and page 3 (think it is) with no initials anywhere...

Reply by desktopfull on 1/2/10 3:08pm
Msg #316428

Re: I've had numerous 1003's that only require signatures

All of mine have either signature, initials or both, guess it depends on what form the company is using.

Reply by PAW on 1/2/10 12:06pm
Msg #316414

Pages 2 and 3 do not require signatures or initials, on the standard FannieMae/FreddieMac forms. (http://www.pawnotary.com/documents/1003.pdf) Locally prepared forms by lenders requiring initials, usually have initials on pages 1 through 3 in addition to signatures on page 1 (for joint credit applicants), page 4 for the acknowledgment and page 5 if there are any continuations.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/2/10 12:13pm
Msg #316416

Guess it varies by format used

Had one the other night - signatures AND initials on page 1, nothing on page 2, signatures on pages 3 and 4.

Reply by PAW on 1/2/10 12:19pm
Msg #316420

Re: Guess it varies by format used

True. Locally prepared forms that are not identical to the "FM" template, may have signatures and initials in different places. However, I submit that the majority of the forms are the same as "FM" templates with the possible addition of initials.

(FM = FannieMae and FreddieMac)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/2/10 12:13pm
Msg #316417

Guess it varies by format used

Had one the other night - signatures AND initials on page 1, nothing on page 2, signatures on pages 3 and 4.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/2/10 12:13pm
Msg #316418

Guess it varies by format used

Had one the other night - signatures AND initials on page 1, nothing on page 2, signatures on pages 3 and 4.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/2/10 12:13pm
Msg #316419

Guess it varies by format used

Had one the other night - signatures AND initials on page 1, nothing on page 2, signatures on pages 3 and 4.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/2/10 12:30pm
Msg #316422

What the heck!! I am so sorry!!...<<blush>> n/m

Reply by Jim/AL on 1/2/10 9:26am
Msg #316400

Agree with Les 110% right on spot. n/m

Reply by OR on 1/1/10 12:55pm
Msg #316358

Re: Fax Back or not to fax back

To fax or not fax seams to be you question when you find your self in a crunch for time getting fedex/ups in time to ship.

You should call and ask the hiring party everytime. However remember that the title can not do anything with the loan until the RTC is up. So I am sure if the doc's arrive the next day or the following day you would be fine. You should let everyone know.

What I have done in the past when I did not want make an extra trip is to made copies of the signature pages to fax with. I carry a copy machine in my car which make that easy. My machine only copies 8.5 x 11 so they may only get the signature half of a page but it is what they want to see. Here is another thing I have learned. The driver leaving from the Kino/Fedex store have extra time too get to the airport before the packages has to leave. In my area it is 30 minutes or more. So if I am running late they are always so nice to let me do what I need to do with in a 5 minute window or so. I also can drive to the airport and drop. Their cut off time is 30 minutes later then Kinkos/Fedex. I have also been running late and droped at the airport and they have taken the docs if the plane has not left yet. Everyone should get to know in their area where every Fedex/ups drop off is at and what their cut off times are. You may find that one is earlier then another or with in a few miles you have a lot more time then you thought. I hope that helps. HAPPY NEW YEAR. May we all be blessed with the love of family and Gods Grace



JoAnn Baracosa
Simple Solutions Notary Service

Reply by John/CT on 1/1/10 1:03pm
Msg #316359

Fax bax not necessarily required by B of A.

I've done lots of them for Fiserv, and they do not require fax bax for refi's.

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/1/10 4:58pm
Msg #316368

It's a new requirement n/m

Reply by John/CT on 1/2/10 11:21am
Msg #316409

Since last week? n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/2/10 12:25pm
Msg #316421

Apparently

I got the email about it on 12/29

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/2/10 12:33pm
Msg #316424

Yes John...Msg 316031

E-mail some received on 12/29/09:

"The following changes are effective immediately for fees and refinance loans with New Millennium Title:

Bank of America requires fax backs on all refinance closings effective immediately (other lenders may coincide with this new requirement same terms will apply if they enforce fax backs)." etc., etc...

Reply by John/CT on 1/3/10 11:57am
Msg #316471

Nope, not for me ... per my later post below. n/m

Reply by brass/LA on 1/1/10 1:48pm
Msg #316361

I can understand why a title company would want critical document fax backs on a purchase or a refi of an investment property since there is no recission period involved. What I can't understand is why they would require them on a normal residential refi with a 3 day RTC. On all of the fax back requests I have received none of them involved a TC that wanted to review my work and then give me the OK to ship. All just wanted certain docs faxed back and the docs dropped.

I have had success convincing most TC to allow me to immediately drop the docs for next day delivery in lieu of me returning to my office, faxing back the docs, and them losing a delivery day in the process.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/1/10 2:33pm
Msg #316362

*What I can't understand is why they would require them on a normal residential refi with a 3 day RTC. *

I personally think it is so that they get the notary to do some of their "scanning" for their own records work. Added value to their contractor's work. JMHO.

Reply by PAW on 1/2/10 7:23am
Msg #316396

>>> so that they get the notary to do some of their "scanning" for their own records work <<<

This may be so in some cases, but in many cases, the title company needs to fax/e-mail "funding docs" to the lender. (Each lender has their own requirement as to which docs are required for funding.) Some lenders schedule their wires to go out at night during normal ACH processing schedules, so the earlier they get the funding docs, the sooner they can schedule the wire transfer to the title/escrow account. Especially on Fridays where the wire would need to be scheduled on Friday night for Monday delivery. If the docs don't arrive until Tuesday (from areas that do not have a Saturday pickup), then the wire doesn't arrive until Wednesday and it's a rush (not so much now as during the heyday) to get funds prepared for settlement and disbursement on Wednesday. Add to that, some lenders (usually correspondent lenders) take their time processing the funding docs before issuing a 'clear to close' response to title/settlement.

Just another point of view.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/2/10 8:33am
Msg #316398

In addition to my above answer……..Some investors require the RESPA docs faxed to them from the Title Co. 24 hours in advance of issuing their funding number. As Paul said this really pushes the time considerations on weekends, and holidays.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/1/10 2:43pm
Msg #316363

Ours is not to wonder why....

It is difficult for me to grasp why this subject gets so many complaints.. Fax backs should never be a surprise to you. If they are, you did not ask the right questions. When you are called for work, ask about the fax backs and charge accordingly. Period. Don't argue as to why they want fax backs. If they want them and you don't want to do them, then just don't take the work. Take the call, determine the work and put a price on it. Then let you customer decide to pay it or not. I just don't get it. It's not hard.

I get more work because of other notaries whining about the fax backs. The companies would just as soon you put a price on them and quit the bs-ing around. When I have asked for the extra fax back fee, I have always gotten it. They are my customer, they get what they want as long it is legal and they agree to the additional fees if there are an excessive amount of fax backs, mileage or other work. I don't worry about the reason they want the extra work.

But go ahead and keep complaining or questioning their reasons, because you push the work to someone who just asks what they want done and then put a price on it. And I'll take it.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/3/10 5:59pm
Msg #316512

I agree, Glenn n/m

Reply by GA/Atty on 1/1/10 3:40pm
Msg #316364

It serves no purpose.

If you do not want to deal with fax backs, you can tell the closer that faxing will delay the drop for another day, and they will probably tell you to forget about the faxes.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 4:02pm
Msg #316365

Re: It serves no purpose.

Or, you could get the instructions I got - "have a duplicate set signed of the items to be faxed back, drop the package then fax back later"...why? I have no idea...have no clue what good that did...

Reply by GA/Atty on 1/1/10 7:31pm
Msg #316380

2 loan packages = 2 fees!! n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 7:35pm
Msg #316381

Re: 2 loan packages = 2 fees!!....yeah right... n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/1/10 8:25pm
Msg #316386

I am telling you guys...the fax back thing

is about them getting the documents "scanned" to them via your fax vehicle to their electronic/scanned-like fax images (think eFax). That way they don't have to scan in on the other end. They don't want to deal with it either so they have the notary do it by scanning it back to them.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 8:30pm
Msg #316387

Not always Brenda...

I see what you're saying and agree if they're requiring full package faxbacks (remembering the days of returning originals with "certified true copies" for the secondary market) ...but in the cases of signature pages and notarized pages only I think it's more QC of the notary's job than anything else.

MHO

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/1/10 9:14pm
Msg #316389

Re: Not always Brenda...

We're talking about "critical docs" in this thread not full packages. I still think my theory is right more than you may realize. I've been around the doc prep/title/mortgage closing instructions in recent years on the inside. Critical docs for the title company's file, or for forwarding as a SCAN to the lender? In the closing instructions from lender's counsel to title co? Yep...more often than you might thinki.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/10 9:59pm
Msg #316390

Point taken...I've been away from the "inside" for 3+ years. n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/2/10 3:22am
Msg #316393

Re: Not always Brenda...

More I think about it, the less it surprises me. I can think of at least one large company that sometimes requests fax-backs, then still has someone calling the next day - or a day or two later - asking if the signing was completed. I want to say "Didn't anyone look at my completion report with the tracking number, etc?" but I don't... Actually, when they call early Eastern time before I'm even awake, I want to say a whole lot more than that!!

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/2/10 6:27am
Msg #316395

Agree, Brenda - in closing instructions, and the change...

seems to be in the Lender's funding policies/procedures. The fax-backs of BOA from what I've seen is on the former Countrywide loans - those are different than BOA direct loans. My guess is these converted ones have an entirely different staff & process.

Lender used to more/less arbitrarily send the funds by wire. Unless someone calls to say the loan didn't sign, or it rescinded early - the wire would go out. It's a whole new world out there now, as we're seeing in all the other processes.

With BOA/Countrywide converted loans, you're dealing with a huge company & a multi-step process for getting those funds out - it can be a little less than arbitrary. This dept wants to see that dept's order, and that dept first wants this page from that person, and that person wants to see a signed something plus something else first.

Most of the Lenders in their Closing Instructions do ask for a signed Hud prior to ordering funds - and some have a whole menu of items they want, and they spell it out - NOT sending funds unless this is received the day of close.

I suspect another fuel for this fire is the wide-spread use of NSA's on these particular loans (BOA/CW converted), and my perception of general NSA protocol is what seems to me to be a common practice of taking loans home "to double-check" and NOT shipping same day. So, where the title agent might've been able to use a bit of grace period on faxing signed Huds for wires to be ordered, they probably OFTEN end up losing more than 24 hours - and time is money!

So, if you're going to insist on NSA's just faxing the day of close, may as WELL get the entire collateral pkg - whether Lender needs it all or not, it's an easy way to catalog the loan.

Reply by doglover/CA on 1/1/10 4:12pm
Msg #316366

My experience with BofA loans is that one title company I work with will ask for them on some, but not all BofA loans. Once when I called to ask about faxing back a certain document, I was told that it was not necessary to fax back anything if it was possible to drop the documents the same day for delivery by the next day, but mandatory if it was an evening signing.

Reply by Jim/AL on 1/2/10 9:37am
Msg #316401

Fax Backs, biggest topic for 2010, wow cannot believe the

size of this one, I hope 2010 brings a bit more challenge than this, lol.

Reply by PAW on 1/2/10 12:10pm
Msg #316415

Re: Fax Backs, biggest topic for 2010, wow cannot believe the

Just shows to go ya that fax backs ARE a big issue with some signing agents.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 1/3/10 1:29am
Msg #316452

BoA does not require fax backs. The title company may.

They are wanting to make sure they were executed correctly because you generally are not suppossed to drop the docs at FedEx until after they call to tell you that you can.

It's what happens when they use notaries that have no idea what they are doing and only charge $40--mistakes.

I did 4 BoA's last week and not one fax back was asked for--haven't did a fax back in a long time.

Reply by John/CT on 1/3/10 11:55am
Msg #316470

Likewise ...

I did a B of A on December 30th for Fiserv ... and as I said eariler, no fax bax. For me, it's also gotta' be a title/signing company requirement, which by blaming the lender takes the onus off of themselves ... so it might seem.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/4/10 5:07pm
Msg #316608

Depends...

As I think someone else stated here, not all BofA packages are the same. It's the ones from the division (or whatever) that used to be CW that require faxbacks - and I'm not sure if it's even all of those. The ones that were BofA before are much different packages and I've never had to do any faxbacks for those, either. They're among my favorites to do.