Posted by Shoshana/AZ on 1/16/10 10:36am
Msg #318250

Loan disclosures to be signed today.

I guess that some lenders are asking notaries to deliver them to borrowers to have them signed. I wonder if this will be a trend?
The new GFE and estimated HUD have been included with specific instructions to NOT have the borrower sign.
Not saying this will happen, but it could - what if borrower says they didn't get the GFE and HUD? How can we prove that they did?

Reply by BobbiCT on 1/16/10 10:59am
Msg #318255

GFE & TIL hand delivery ...

Depending on the rate, if it's floating or near rate lock expiration, lender and/or broker could be willing to pay for hand delivery.

Remember: Without going into details or circumstances, under the "new and improved" Protection for Borrower, if the GFE and and/or TIL change, the borrowers have to wait three business days before they can close. If the revised GFE and/or TIL are MAILED, it can result in a SEVEN day wait.

Under the right circumstances, that borrower protection can result in the borrower getting a higher interest rate, higher closing costs or losing a home purchase (wait period goes beyond the contract closing date and seller refuses to extend).

(Attorney seminar I was at gave a number of examples where the borrower protection "waiting days" actually puts the borrower in a worse position re rate and costs.)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/16/10 11:03am
Msg #318256

Am I misunderstanding this?

Haven't the required disclosures always been part of any RESPA signing?

And, as to this.. "what if borrower says they didn't get the GFE and HUD? How can we prove that they did?" - not our job to prove - that's the LO's problem - we have our e-mail instructions (which I print and keep) and the copy of the package showing what was delivered.

MHO

Reply by Pat/IL on 1/16/10 12:25pm
Msg #318263

Re: Am I misunderstanding this?

Linda, you may be understanding this. I believe Shoshana is referring to the final GFE and HUD, not the initial disclosures. I am sure that, at closing, the borrowers will be signing a staement verifying that they have received the documents within the allotted time period.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/16/10 12:29pm
Msg #318264

Aahh...now I get it - figured that AFTER I posted...thx Pat. n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 1/16/10 1:40pm
Msg #318268

These are the initial disclosures.

Initial GFE's always had to be signed, unless I am remembering wrong. We never got an initial HUD before. But we got an initial itemization of amount financed.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/16/10 1:43pm
Msg #318269

Re: These are the initial disclosures.

Ah hah...so I DID understand the initial post correctly...

Okay...let me be more specific then - in all the RESPA's I've done all the initial disclosures were included and needed to be signed, the GFE was there, needed to be signed, and occasionally I had a preliminary HUD (maybe company specific?) which did not require a signature.

Reply by Pat/IL on 1/16/10 2:09pm
Msg #318270

Sorry Linda, my bad. n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/16/10 2:17pm
Msg #318273

No need to apologize Pat...I honestly started to think

maybe they were the disclosures needing to be provided 24-48 hours prior to closing - not the initial ones.

Love reading your input -

Reply by Les_CO on 1/16/10 2:13pm
Msg #318271

Re: These are the initial disclosures.

I can’t recall a ‘preliminary’ GFE where signatures were not required. That said; please understand there are many things I don’t recall, so this should not be considered carved in stone. I could never understand why signatures were required? An estimate is an estimate, no? Not necessarily correct, complete, or to be relied upon? I have seen HUDs that were not signed; however the borrowers did sign a document stating that they received a HUD. I have done many closings for CA title companies that use both preliminary HUDs and GFEs, saying they will send the borrower the ‘final’ docs at close of escrow. What escrow? CO is a table funding, not an ‘escrow’ State. How do they get away with this? Some say don’t leave any docs with the borrower, we will send them a complete copy of the signed docs later??? How can CA Title Co’s charge for a ‘closing fee’ perhaps a ‘notary fee,’ and an ‘escrow fee’ here in a non-escrow State? I guess they can get by with anything as long as the borrower doesn’t complain?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/16/10 2:16pm
Msg #318272

Re: These are the initial disclosures.

"I could never understand why signatures were required. An estimate is an estimate, no?"

Acknowledgment of receipt perhaps?

Reply by Les_CO on 1/16/10 2:29pm
Msg #318274

Re: Linda

I have always looked at the HUD and the GFE as a protection for the borrower. How much protection is offered by a document that may be thousands of dollars in error? I suppose if RESPA calls for the borrower to get an ‘estimate’ in his hot little hand before closing a signature would be proof of receipt. I misstated my thought…. I’ve never understood why the borrower is required to receive something that can’t be relied upon, and furthermore they usually get ‘at closing’ along with the ‘final’ docs?

Reply by Les_CO on 1/16/10 12:51pm
Msg #318266

Re: Am I misunderstanding this?

Just my opinion…but… in the past (before this year) the preliminary GFE meant exactly nothing. It was the HUD that counted (not the ‘estimated’ HUD). Here in CO it has been a requirement for some time that the borrower (if requested) is to get the RESPA docs 24 hours in advance of signing. Right! Many times I’ve sat at a signing where the borrower looks at the HUD and asks why these costs are $4-5-6 thousand MORE than my GFE? I say because the “GFE is mostly BS!”…No not really… “I say call your LO” I’ve heard lots of explanations, like “Well you must pay $4600.00 in Mortgage Insurance premium, this wasn’t on your GFE because we didn’t have the appraisal back.” Right! Or that $5 thousand YSP? “That is something that is noted there, but not paid by you, it’s paid by the lender/ bank, to the broker, see… POC? Means, paid out of closing.” Right!
I for one welcome these new forms, and the fact they must be redone if the costs change a minor amount. There is no reason the LO’s can’t he honest. I have worked with one LO here in CO for years; she has personally attended EVERY closing I have presented for her. In state/out-of-state, at least the LO KNOWING their deal is going to close, could/should call their client, or be available for questions. How many times when presenting a Friday 6/7 PM closing have you, or the borrower tried to call the LO and gotten voice-mail? As I’ve said in the past I think these new forms/regs will cause the lenders/LO’s problems, and some Title Companies, the ones that get the lender docs without looking at them, and use the lenders HUD. And there is no reason the lenders, and the Title companies can’t get/use the correct figures.
I can also see that under the right conditions the borrower could be hurt by the additional time requirements, when figures change.
As far as signatures, In the past, if there is no signature line I at least have the borrower initial the HUD. (Their copy too) I say if any questions come up ask the Title Company to fax you a copy of the HUD (that will have your initials on it) Again jmo.

Reply by Jodith Allen on 1/21/10 10:58am
Msg #318771

I did an application signing last night. The GFE and estimated HUD included did not require a signature, however I did have a form for acknowledging the receipt of the GFE and the HUD. I know if I was a LO, I'd want a signature stating they got those just in case there was a problem later. But then, I'm pretty anal about cya.