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Quick question re recorded documents
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Quick question re recorded documents
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Posted by Linda_H/FL on 1/4/10 6:26pm
Msg #316619

Quick question re recorded documents

Isn't sensitive information (soc. sec. numbers and driv. lic. numbers) supposed to be redacted before recording? I was just looking in the county records and found a mortgage recorded with the Mortgagors' drivers license numbers in the acknowledgment..and not part of the form a la NNA pre-printed acks - it's handwritten in by the notary.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/4/10 6:38pm
Msg #316621

Sounds like a screw-up by the notary that was not caught by the recorder.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/4/10 6:43pm
Msg #316622

I haven't check the county records in a while

I'm finding some jaw-dropping stuff boy...

Reply by Julie/MI on 1/4/10 7:47pm
Msg #316631

Glenn not recorder's job

When I sat at the recorder's desk, citcorp routinely added the borrower's social security numbers on the mortgages. There is nothing in the michigan recording requirements that said that info couldn't be there.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/5/10 11:42am
Msg #316720

Re: Glenn not recorder's job

There is in Calif, and the recorder will reject it. I have seen it happen.

Reply by PAW on 1/4/10 7:24pm
Msg #316629

D/L numbers not included in the statute

Driver's license numbers were not part of the law: Florida Statute 119.0714(3)(g) effective October 1, 2002, which states "any person preparing or filing a document for recording in the official records shall not include a social security number, unless required by law."

The following are the pertinent parts to the complete statute:

Florida Statute 119.0714(2) in regard to COURT RECORDS:

(a) Until January 1, 2011, if a social security number or a bank account, debit, charge, or credit card number is included in a court file, such number may be included as part of the court record available for public inspection and copying unless redaction is requested by the holder of such number or by the holder's attorney or legal guardian.

(b) A request for redaction must be a signed, legibly written request specifying the case name, case number, document heading, and page number. The request must be delivered by mail, facsimile, electronic transmission, or in person to the clerk of the court. The clerk of the court does not have a duty to inquire beyond the written request to verify the identity of a person requesting redaction.

(e)1. On January 1, 2011, and thereafter, the clerk of the court must keep social security numbers confidential and exempt as provided for in s. 119.071(5)(a), and bank account, debit, charge, and credit card numbers exempt as provided for in s. 119.071(5)(b), without any person having to request redaction.

Florida Statute 119.0714(3) in regard to OFFICIAL RECORDS:

(a) Any person who prepares or files a record for recording in the official records as provided in chapter 28 may not include in that record a social security number or a bank account, debit, charge, or credit card number unless otherwise expressly required by law.

(b)1. If a social security number or a bank account, debit, charge, or credit card number is included in an official record, such number may be made available as part of the official records available for public inspection and copying unless redaction is requested by the holder of such number or by the holder's attorney or legal guardian.

(b)2. If such record is in electronic format, on January 1, 2011, and thereafter, the county recorder must use his or her best effort, as provided in paragraph (h), to keep social security numbers confidential and exempt as provided for in s. 119.071(5)(a), and to keep complete bank account, debit, charge, and credit card numbers exempt as provided for in s. 119.071(5)(b), without any person having to request redaction.

(c) The holder of a social security number or a bank account, debit, charge, or credit card number, or the holder's attorney or legal guardian, may request that a county recorder redact from an image or copy of an official record placed on a county recorder's publicly available Internet website or on a publicly available Internet website used by a county recorder to display public records, or otherwise made electronically available to the public, his or her social security number or bank account, debit, charge, or credit card number contained in that official record.

(d) A request for redaction must be a signed, legibly written request and must be delivered by mail, facsimile, electronic transmission, or in person to the county recorder. The request must specify the identification page number of the record that contains the number to be redacted.

(g)1. On or after October 1, 2002, any person preparing or filing a record for recordation in the official records may not include a social security number or a bank account, debit, charge, or credit card number in such document unless required by law.

(g)2. Any person has a right to request a county recorder to remove from an image or copy of an official record placed on a county recorder's publicly available Internet website or on a publicly available Internet website used by a county recorder to display public records, or otherwise made electronically available to the general public, any social security number contained in an official record. Such request must be made in writing and delivered by mail, facsimile, or electronic transmission, or delivered in person, to the county recorder. The request must specify the identification page number that contains the social security number to be redacted. A fee may not be charged for the redaction of a social security number pursuant to such a request.

(h) If the county recorder accepts or stores official records in an electronic format, the county recorder must use his or her best efforts to redact all social security numbers and bank account, debit, charge, or credit card numbers from electronic copies of the official record. The use of an automated program for redaction shall be deemed to be the best effort in performing the redaction and shall be deemed in compliance with the requirements of this subsection.

(i) The county recorder is not liable for the inadvertent release of social security numbers, or bank account, debit, charge, or credit card numbers, filed with the county recorder.

Reply by PAW on 1/4/10 8:00pm
Msg #316632

It is in the manual

The inclusion of a driver's license number is shown in a sample acknowledgment in the notary manual. Plus, some notary training material that I have seen says to include the document identifying number in the certificate. Not something that I do, but I too have seen it done very often.

Reply by Robert/FL on 1/4/10 9:11pm
Msg #316644

When notarizing wills, I always include the testator's D/L number in the notarial certificate. IMO this is additional verification that the notary did actually check the person's ID and that the ID was actually presented to the notary. I was trained to do it this way and continue to do it on wills and other sensitive documents. I typically do not include the D/L number on documents that I know will be recorded such as deeds, mortgages, etc., unless it is specifically requested, and many times it is.

However - like PAW said above, the FL notary manual uses the D/L number in a sample certificate. IMO to worry about the D/L number being used for identity theft is pure paranoia. There is nothing in Florida law where Driver license numbers are considered confidential and fraudulent use of D/L numbers is probably very rare.

As for Social Security numbers, the clerk is supposed to redact them. However, if the confidential number was overlook during the redaction, they can be redacted upon request - at least in Florida.

Reply by PAW on 1/5/10 6:43am
Msg #316665

>>> IMO to worry about the D/L number being used for identity theft is pure paranoia. There is nothing in Florida law where Driver license numbers are considered confidential and fraudulent use of D/L numbers is probably very rare. <<<

I seriously beg to differ with you. Having been a victim of identity theft a while back, it was determined that the root of the theft came from the use of my license plate number which led them to my D/L number and tracing it around the system, obtaining my home address and even my social security number. Paranoid, maybe, but I don't think so.

If it were nothing to worry about, why then is there the Driver Privacy Protection Act, 18 United States Code, Sections 2721-2725 (DPPA) that keeps your personal information private by limiting who has access to the information. The Florida Department of Safety automatically blocks personal information on your motor vehicle and driver license records. It is because under state law, motor vehicle, driver license, and vehicular crash records are subject to public disclosure. In Florida, and many other states, you can request to have your information blocked from searches.

Reply by Julie/MI on 1/5/10 7:39am
Msg #316668

truthfully, no one in Michigan really gives a hoot if anyone really checked the drivers license. Just curious how a document on public record can be "redacted".

The documents used to be microfilmed and they cannot be removed or cross out the dl number or social security numbers. One can rerecorded the document and black out the numbers, but the origianal still stands. Even now that they use electronic imaging, the recorder cannot nor should they make a document vanish.

Really curious as to how they do this in FL, Robert.



Reply by PAW on 1/5/10 10:12am
Msg #316675

Older (microfilmed) documents are not required to be redacted. However, since 2002, all documents are being electronically scanned for archival purposes and some must be redacted. Electronic documents can still be redacted in their electronic form. "Film" and electrostatic copies obviously cannot be redacted until printed.

Reply by Robert/FL on 1/5/10 1:08pm
Msg #316749

I also wanted to post this for reference, from the Florida Department of State notary education website: http://notaries.dos.state.fl.us/education/faq/index.html

******************************************
When I personally know the signer, am I required to indicate that fact in my notarial certificate?

Yes. When notarizing a signature, a notary public must always certify the type of identification relied upon, either personal knowledge or other form of identification produced. This can be done as part of the main wording in the notarial certificate or at the bottom of the certificate.

We have seen notarized documents where the notary simply noted "PK" or "DL", meaning "personally known" or "driver's license." These abbreviations are not clear, and we recommend that you make more specific notations about identification. Although not required, it is a good practice to indicate the identification card number and the state or country that issued the card. This will help to protect you in case a signer later claims that he or she did not sign the document and did not appear before you for the notarization.

Please review the form notarial certificates for examples of noting the method of identification.



 
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