Posted by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 7/30/10 9:03am
Msg #346965

NY notaries and expired stamps

Why do you use them? All the lender can see is that stamp is expired. yea I know NY notaries do not need to use a stamp/seal. But other states need to see a seal on the document for other reasons, so to use a stamp that is clearly expired and line thru commission date and write in new date just is not good practice.....but apparently valid in NEW YORK, but not other states, like Calfornia for one. So stop with the NY attitiude, it don't fly in other states.

Of course borrower will not understand today why their loan is not funding and will have to re-signed by another notary who acutally has a stamp and that is not EXPIRED.
Are there such notaries left in NY?

Reply by MW/VA on 7/30/10 9:11am
Msg #346969

IMO, there's no excuse--new stamps aren't very expensive.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/30/10 9:13am
Msg #346971

Isn't there reciprocity between states? If it's notarized in NY then NY notary law/procedure applies - meaning if no stamp required by state law, then no stamp is required on the document .... period.

I do agree with you, though, that it's ridiculous that they use an expired stamp and line through it. IMO that's totally unacceptable.

I'll assume your database just shrunk by one...

Reply by PAW on 7/30/10 9:13am
Msg #346972

If the signing took place in NY and the NY notary alters the date on their stamp (which, as you pointed out, the stamp is not required thus the date alteration would be acceptable), then other states must accept the notarization as it was within the law in NY. It doesn't make any difference what 'other' state's practices and policies are concerning notary stamps and seals.

Granted, if I were the notary, I would have obtained a new stamp, sans expiration date, to avoid confusion in other jurisdictions. Considering that the stamp did appear to be expired, I would not have stamped the document at all rather than alter the stamp after stamping. Again, all within the law in NY.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/30/10 9:23am
Msg #346978

Sorry, wrong answer. You might want to read the

Full Faith and Crredit Clause of the US Constitution.
If a document is properly notarized, it's valid in all 50 states.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 7/30/10 9:36am
Msg #346981

There is a rule besides"Full faith and credit". It is called

"The Golden Rule" The one with the gold , makes the rules.
Why create a problem , when the fix is so easy and cheap.
Why make the Recorder of Deeds or Title Co in state X , do research to determine
what NY law is. If you are going to voluntarily use a stamp, do not use one that
appears to be invalid on its face. Spend the $15 and do it right.

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 7/30/10 9:43am
Msg #346984

Re: There is a rule besides"Full faith and credit". It is called

Thank you - my thought is make the stamp valid if you are going to use it. It is so inexpensive to get a new stamp. it just looks right and some little county of podunk will see it as not expired. Isn't that why NY notaries use the stamp to begin with - for other states to see the document has been notarized since not all states understand that seal is not necessary in the State of NY.

My state does not require a journal - under notary law. BUT I DO. It makes it an offical act for some, besides stamping the document you are notarizing and to have them sign their name in your journal. And besides, I consider it a major protection.

Reply by BestFlCloser on 7/30/10 2:50pm
Msg #347043

Re: There is a rule besides"Full faith and credit". It is called

I am a NY, NJ & Florida notary. In NY the stamps have line that states: "My Commission Expires on", then the notary enters the date, the expiration date is always the same month and day. The notary number is always the same. Therefore, there is no need to change the stamp if you don't want to. But it is required that you fill in the date which your commission expires.

Hope this helps!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 7/30/10 2:56pm
Msg #347045

Actually, NY notaries use a stamp because...

... it's easier than printing all that information by hand. NY law allows us to use a stamp if we want to, but those five or six lines (depending on what county you qualified in) MUST be printed in black ink using exactly that wording.

There is nothing to prevent us from crossing out the expiration date and writing in the new one when a commission is renewed, although I agree that it looks cheesy. You can also use a stamp that says "My Commission Expires ________" and write in the date, which looks slightly less cheesy. Best idea is to buy a new stamp every four years.

It wasn't clear to me whether the old date was crossed out and a new one written in, or it was stamped it with an expired commission date and no correction made. If the latter, that notarization is probably invalid - a valid commission date is a required element.

Reply by PAW on 7/30/10 5:27pm
Msg #347062

Re: Actually, NY notaries use a stamp because...

>>> It wasn't clear to me whether the old date was crossed out and a new one written in, or it was stamped it with an expired commission date and no correction made. <<<

It was the former. Here's a quote from the original post:
"... so to use a stamp that is clearly expired and line thru commission date and write in new date just is not good practice ..."

Reply by MikeC/NY on 7/30/10 9:29pm
Msg #347095

Re: Actually, NY notaries use a stamp because...

Thanks Paul - that makes it valid under NY law, even if it doesn't look pretty...

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 7/30/10 9:53pm
Msg #347103

I say again, Just because you can, doesn't mean, you shoud. n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 7/31/10 6:03pm
Msg #347190

And just because you shouldn't, doesn't mean you can't

I agree that it is bad form and it's not something I would personally do, but it's still a legal and valid notarization, acceptable in all 50 states.

The argument that the TC shouldn't have to look up NY law to see if the notarization is valid is bogus, because that can apply to a notarization from any state - how does a TC in California know what a valid notarization from Iowa, or Illinois, or Utah looks like?

He who has the gold doesn't make the rules in this case, at least not in the notarial block. Here in NY, we have specific language that MUST be used in an acknowledgment involving real property - if the TC sends a doc with a noncompliant acknowledgment, I would be striking it and attaching a loose certificate. I really don't care what their policy is about crossing things out - if the docs are being signed here, NY law trumps their policy every time. If they don't want it crossed out, they should send it with the right wording (which would require them to look up NY law and determine what that is...).

The wording on the stamps we use is required by NY law - we have a choice of printing it or using a stamp, so just about everyone uses a stamp. I doubt this expired stamp thing is as big a deal as the OP made it sound...

Reply by MikeC/NY on 7/30/10 3:10pm
Msg #347049

"but apparently valid in NEW YORK, but not other states, like Calfornia for one"

Untrue. If the document is notarized according to NY law, the notarization is valid in the other 49 states. It doesn't matter if you or the lender have an issue with the way it looks - it's a legal and valid notarization.

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 7/30/10 10:16pm
Msg #347108

Except with Provident where no cross-outs are allowed.

I have a notary who's stamp expired 2005 and the notary just lines through the date and writes in new comm date. Although valid, it does not fly with Provident since notary drew a line through and corrected. Provident would have been fine, if there was no stamp and just a signature with exp date written next to name.

Their reasoning is that at one time the notary took the time to purchase a stamp with current information, therefore they should have done the same when commission date changed.

I would suggest they purchase stamp without a exp date and just write it in on notarizations, this will elminate any questions as to NO crossouts of dates.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 7/31/10 4:21pm
Msg #347186

"Provident would have been fine, if there was no stamp and just a signature with exp date written next to name."

Problem there is that then it would not have been a valid notarization - the verbiage that's on the stamp is required under NY law.

I agree that the notary should either replace the stamp every 4 years, or at least get one that has a blank for the expiration date. Some people are just lazy, but laziness in this case doesn't violate NY law. If it's an issue, maybe you should ask whether their stamp has a valid expiration date before hiring them (I'm not trying to be funny, it is an option for you).