Posted by jojo_MN on 7/1/10 10:43pm
Msg #343496

Notary and Signing Service Agreement

I was contacted to do a signing on Friday. In the confirmation were two documents that I was instructed to have the borrowers sign, then I am supposed to fax it back to them and return via USPS after the closing. The instructions state not to fax it to or return it to the title company.

The document is a Notary and Signing Service Agreement. It states that in the case the borrower cancels the transaction or the transaction does not close escrow for any reason, the borrower will be responsible to pay the fee to the signing service in the amount of $200, then gives the name of the company and address to which it should be mailed. This document is to be signed before any of the other documents.

Has anyone seen this document before and is it legal? PAW, any input?

Reply by JulieD/KS on 7/1/10 10:54pm
Msg #343498

I've only encountered it once. I called the company and let them know that I wouldn't present the form to the borrower and that if they had an issue with it, they needed to hire someone else. As far as I'm concerned, if the borrower chooses not to sign a refinance package, they shouldn't be responsible to pay a signing service one thin dime. The SS has to pay me, however.

Reply by jba/fl on 7/1/10 11:08pm
Msg #343501

How cheesey!

Did the BO hire the SS? I think not! The TC should be made aware of this practice though - JMHO

Who is this SS? I know I would never present such an item.

Reply by jba/fl on 7/1/10 11:13pm
Msg #343502

And....

"The instructions state not to fax it to or return it to the title company. "

Gee - I wonder why? I would be tempted to do just that - the TC is having their name besmirched just through association.

(I hope my little indignant self is done, that I don't keep posting "And"s) LOL

Reply by MichiganAl on 7/2/10 12:59am
Msg #343510

Re: And....

I think I would ACCIDENTALLY fax it to the title company and the loan officer. Not on purpose, of course. I'm just so careless sometimes.

Reply by aanotary on 7/1/10 11:31pm
Msg #343504

Is it Select Signing?

They have such a document .

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/1/10 11:50pm
Msg #343507

Wow... they are low-ballers, too....

must be desperate to grab money anywhere they can get it, I guess.

That company is on my naughty list.

Reply by LMS on 7/1/10 11:35pm
Msg #343505

I've had this a few times in the past, not recently though. I can't remember who the companies were that used to do it. I flat out refused to have the borrower sign it and told them (SS) that. It was never an issue. They still had me do the signing.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/1/10 11:48pm
Msg #343506

How is that even legal??

The borrowers did not hire the Signing Service... TC/Escrow did. The SS has no right to ask the borrowers to do that. If the SS wants to get paid no matter what, that needs to be part of the agreement with TC/Escrow, not the borrower.

I'd love to see some stupid SS try to sue some borrowers for that fee.

Reply by LMS on 7/1/10 11:50pm
Msg #343508

Re: How is that even legal??

If it's not, it should be!

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/2/10 5:30am
Msg #343516

Sounds like a vague coercion to me. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 7/2/10 8:47am
Msg #343540

Re: How is that even legal??

I'm in complete agreement with you Marian. I would not ask a borrower to sign a document that is designed to be a ss CYA. We all have risk in this business.
I have seen a document in RM packages that say that if they cancel they are responsible for the notary fee. It's the lender/tc that put it in there.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/2/10 7:15am
Msg #343525

Years ago I used to see a document in signing packages (usually from Notary Direct), that stated the borrower would agree to pay the notary fee if the loan did not go through for any reason. I always showed it to the borrower, identified it, and 9 times out of 10 they chose not to sign it.

Reply by Baragona/MO on 7/2/10 10:30am
Msg #343556

I believe that should be the correct procedure. Overall, it seems highly unethical and possibly illegal for a SS to place this document with the closing package for the borrower to sign. I know if I saw such a document in my closing package I would refuse to sign it! Most of the time the borrower hasn't even chosen the TC, let alone a SS.

Reply by MonicaFL on 7/2/10 10:45am
Msg #343557

I think I would print the document out, show it to the borrower and if they refused to sign it, I would put in big bold letters, borrower refused to sign this document and ship it back to the TITLE company. That way at least they could see what the signing service is trying to do! JMO

Reply by MikeC/NY on 7/2/10 5:54pm
Msg #343614

What do they expect you to do if the BO refuses to sign?

If it's supposed to be signed first and the BO balks at it, what next - adjourn the signing?

Whether it's legal or not is a question for a lawyer to answer, but I think leading off a signing with a document like this sets the wrong tone. Instead of being there to facilitate the signing, your first agenda item is to make sure the SS gets paid.

If it came from the TC or lender, I would present it; I wouldn't present it if it came from the SS separately with instructions not to tell the lender or the TC. The SS is a third party to the transaction and has no business inserting their own document into it, especially when that document might jeopardize the signing. And if the SS didn't like that, they could find another notary.

I don't necessarily agree with those who say you should send a copy to the TC or lender anyway - my philosophy is that you should carefully choose which bridges you want to burn.

Reply by Karla/WA on 7/2/10 6:16pm
Msg #343617

Re: What do they expect you to do if the BO refuses to sign?

In these days of "low-ballers" it's interesting they quoted a fee of $200. Funny...how many of us receive $200 on a regular basis....or $150 anymore. I know there are good SS out there, but there are an awful lot who take an undeserved percentage of the closing fee.
Happy 4th of July everyone. I'm here in the Seattle area and I've still got a couple signings on the docket tonight.
Enjoy your weekend.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/2/10 6:18pm
Msg #343618

Re: What do they expect you to do if the BO refuses to sign?

I believe the $200 fee is what the borrower would have had to pay the signing service, not the signing agent.

Reply by jojo_MN on 7/9/10 3:51pm
Msg #344376

Thank you all for your reply. Shortly after I posted this, the company called me and cancelled with me. They said it was re-scheduled for a time that I earlier said I couldn't do.

Reply by GinaD on 6/22/11 5:44pm
Msg #387320

I received a call from Select Signings. I was told they would overnight the documents & that I wouldn't have to fax any documents back after the signing. However, it clearly stated in their instructions that all docs were to be faxed back. I also never received a tracking number or method of shipment. It also included a "Signing Service Fee Responsibility" statement indicating that the borrower was responsible for the signing fee payable to Select Signings. This contract was supplied by the signing company & not the lender.This was not mentioned during the confirmation. Even if the borrower would choose not to sign then I was just to continue with the signing. I sure don't think this contract is ethical. The fee was very minimal & definitely not worth my time or aggravation.