Posted by John/CT on 7/28/10 1:03pm
Msg #346603

Signing Service Payment "Gap"

I came across a situation where there was a significant difference between the amount charged by the SS (as was indicated by title on the HUD-1), and the amount paid to me. Granted the SS is entitled to a profit, but I'm thinking 250% might be a a bit high. Explained by the SS that was to cover any cost if "something comes up" and the dox have to be redrawn, reprinted, etc.; if not, the borrower would get $ back from the SS. Sounded somewhat dubious to me. I was not aware the SS having to "eat" the expense of redraws/reprints if not their or notary fault. I would think that would be a cost to the title company or passed on to the borrower for redrawn dox. Others' thoughts? TIA

Reply by JulieD/KS on 7/28/10 1:15pm
Msg #346604

Sounds like the SS was blowing a little you-know-what up your you-know-what.

They are going to charge a certain amount of fees to the borrower and they spread those fees across the HUD to make the amount of fees look plausible.

I'm not making this up. A loan officer told me so. At the time, I had been accepted on as a loan officer and she was training me. I then decided I didn't possess the required lack of ethics to be a loan officer.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 7/28/10 2:35pm
Msg #346627

Julie has it right. The SS was blowing smoke. They make phone calls, assign the loan, send the docs or links to the docs when ready, then pass on the email that says it was closed. They are the middleman in this business transaction. Some are good, some are bad and others should be avoided at all costs.

When a TC pays them $175-$200+ that's $175-$200 the NSA will not receive for actually doing the job. I don't have any issues with an SS making a profit for the service they provide when they offer a professional fee. Just don't try to low ball me to make an unreasonable profit. I much prefer working directly for the TC - $175-$200 is much better than $125-150 any day. But the fact is, they are here and the good ones serve a purpose. When a low ball SS company charges $175+ then offers $60 for an edoc closing they SHOULD be unable to find a professional SA for that insulting offer. Unfortunately there are enough uneducated "business" people in this business that keep these low ballers in business while thinking they are making "good" (beer) money. They don't understand how to run a business themselves and for the short time they are around, they make it hard on the professional SA.

I had a company call me for an atty office closing that wanted to offer me $125 (including the office fee) for the job. I told them that the office charge is $50 on top of my fee and that it would be $200 for the closing. He said that the TC's might not approve that pay. He said "times are tight and they don't want to turn lose of the money." I told him that if they wanted me or any other professional to close the loan they would need to start "turning loose" of the money. They called back and accepted my fee on that closing and also had another one for the same day (no haggling on fees this time). With the way the fees are hidden on the HUD, I am not 100% sure, but I think they charged the TC (and ultimately the BO) $525 for my services, for each loan.

I got the fee I charged so I'm happy (or will be as soon as the check arrives, Net 30 only). As long as they meet my fees, what they make on top of that is fine by me. Just don't try to make $400 for making a phone call and then have the nerve to ask me to accept $50 (+ edoc fee of $25 & $50 for room rent) for the same job.

LOL Since "times are tight" I might need to start charging $250-$300 for this SS next time as each one of these loans had no less than 17 pages that required a notary seal. If the $525 number is correct they would still be making $225 for making phone calls and emails. :-|

Reply by James Dawson on 7/28/10 1:25pm
Msg #346608

John - it has been my experience that if a re-draw is initiated by the LO and you go back out on it, it will be like a brand new assignment. that is, paid twice and yes it's passed on to the borrower. If you don't get the "new" assignment (maybe a scheduling conflict) and you have not negotiated a print fee, you will have printed out those old Docs for free.

It's important to understand the hiring party's payment policies in full before taking the assignment. They are all different to some degree, newbies have to learn this the hard way. IMO

Reply by twil4_WI on 7/28/10 1:54pm
Msg #346617

I always check the HUD since I found one with my name on it for services of $400, which was 4x what I was getting, and a separate charge for themselves. Another time a small signing service had a huge fee for themselves, and then the notary services was written in at $500. These incidents can cause me to get an inflated 1099 from them at the end of the year, which thank goodness has only happened once. Yes, I could prove I didnt get it, but what an inconvenience.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/28/10 2:48pm
Msg #346628

Sounds like total BS to me. The only company that does ‘sometimes’ charge a redraw fee is Provident ($300), usually because someone did not follow instructions. And ‘someone’ must pay, the Notary that screwed up, the SS that hired the notary, or Title. Not the borrower. Mostly on a redraw it’s the fault of the Lender (read LO), and sometimes Title, in such cases they should and do pay, (and for the NSA to reprint the docs, and make a second trip.) If the SS screws up, then they usually have to eat it. This very rarely happens, it’s usually the Notary that messes up and refuses to go back and fix their mistake, then the SS has to hire someone else to go do a resign at their expense, and this is just a cost of doing business.
Personally, (and I have done this) if I saw a $400 signing fee, and an additional say $200 notary fee on the HUD, I’d tell the borrower I’m getting $100, here’s my confirmation/fee. You should call your LO and ask for a refund, or an explanation of these costs. If these fees are on the HUD, and NOT paid out, or refunded (Title keeps the difference) IMO it’s a RESPA violation.

Reply by HARRY_PA on 7/28/10 2:59pm
Msg #346632

If you agree to a fee and are paid for you work, why do you whine about what the SS charges. If you don't think their offer is fair reject it. I do. Just my opinion.

Harry

Reply by Les_CO on 7/28/10 3:26pm
Msg #346643


I agree 100%..
I never “whine about what a SS charges”.
Because we all know that there are some dishonest Title Companies, SS’s and LO’s and Lenders out there, and I believe that as “Signing Agents” we have some fiduciary duty to the borrower; when I see what I think to be flagrant wrongdoing on the part of any, I bring it to the attention of the borrower.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/28/10 3:18pm
Msg #346639

IMO this is total BS. How about if we try that tactic--double our fees to account for any situation--docs are late, traffic is a mess, bad hair day, etc., etc., etc. ?? LOL