Posted by jjill_CA on 7/8/10 9:05am
Msg #344136

Title Question for all you Title-ies...

I have a friend (funny how a lot of these convos start out this way!) who has the PoA for his mother who now lives in a nursing home. The PoA states her full name (with full middle name).

He needs to sell her house in order to pay for her nursing home care. The Deed on the house shows title is held in joint tenancy by his parents. His father is deceased. The mothers name on the Deed just shows First, Middle INITIAL, Last.

The title company is telling him that they cannot accept the PoA because the name does not match the Deed exactly, even though the PoA has more info (whole middle name) on it. So they want a PoA that matches the way the Deed is written.

So in this situation, he can get his mother to sign a new PoA, but it got me thinking...isn't the whole point of a PoA there in case someone can't make their own decisions about things? And what if he was unable to get his mother to sign a new PoA??? Then what would he do?

Just thought some of you with extensive title experience might have some thoughts on this...

Reply by meganPA on 7/8/10 9:42am
Msg #344153

Jill, a few questions. Does the mother have a common name, where they are questioning whether this could actually be her? Also, is this a general POA, or specific to the sale of the home?

The title co. seems to be acting very picky, but it is their right to do so. Especially with the sale of a home, they need to ensure the right person is signing off on the deed! One way around the names not matching is when they draw up the new deed, to have her sign both ways with an AKA. I have seen this done many times. They could also check to see if the woman has valid identification showing her both ways and have the son bring the original IDs to closing to verify.

You make a very good point by saying what if she wasn't able to sign a new POA. In that case I guess you would have to find a different title company to use. Some are stricter than others.

Reply by PAW on 7/8/10 10:05am
Msg #344156

Unfortunately, the grantee has the right to accept or not to accept the POA made by the principal. Typically, in real estate transactions, there is specific wording the lender and/or title company wants in the POA limiting the AIF's role. I have not run across any lender or title company that has refused to accept a POA provided by them or the lender. But just about every general POA that anyone can download from the internet or buy in the local stationary store, and some drafted by local family lawyers, has been rejected by banks, lenders and title companies.

I find the full middle name instead of an initial a ridiculous stance by the title company. I certainly could understand their reluctance had the names been reversed (deed with full middle name, POA with only middle initial).

If there is an issue in getting another POA that is acceptable by the title company and lender, signed by the principal, you may need to refer the parties to an attorney for resolution.

Reply by EHarp/MO on 7/8/10 10:11am
Msg #344157

Hi Jill,

In regard to the POA, it gives another person the right to complete transactions on behalf of another. For instance, I have had a POA for another person on the title of my home because they would probably not be there when the closing took place. It is not uncommon for a specific POA to be requested when dealing with significant transactions such as the conveyance of Real Property.

A Guardianship is issued when another person needs some one to make decisions for them because they are not able to. These are used for children or adults.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/8/10 11:06am
Msg #344170

I think I’d tell your friend to get some legal advice from someone not only well versed in real estate, but estate planning, and maybe also Medicaid.
I would wonder why a Title Company is involved at this point.
If it was me, after consulting my attorney, I’d make sure the in this case (my) dad’s death certificate with the name exactly matching the original deed was recorded in the county where the property is located. Then I’d have the (my) mom deed the property to me, not using a POA. I could then do with the property as I saw fit.

Reply by EHarp/MO on 7/8/10 11:42am
Msg #344176

Good response Les. There may be issues that require the hand of a good attorney. Here in Missouri once my Mother reached the Nursing Home, they made here sell off every thing to pay bills that would exceed Medicare or Medicaid. Once she was out of Pension and CD’s Medicaid went after other assets. That included Life Insurance and they wanted to go after the Burial Plan she had since it was technically a form of whole life. Any actions can fall under heavy scrutiny.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 7/8/10 11:57am
Msg #344181

Sounds like a story missing a few details to me

Perhaps this title company has some reason to not want to involve themselves in this transaction, but doesn't want to come out and accuse anyone of anything - that kind of thing happens. Could be also that something was 'lost in the translation', from title to your friend to you. I just can't otherwise make sense of a valid POA not being accepted for the reason as stated.

Is it that Mom is now under Guardianship, and it wasn't a Durable POA? Just so many things could be clouding this - things we're not privy to. If she is no longer fully lucid ...well, that'll be another issue.

I definitely echo the advice to send him to an attorney.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/8/10 12:37pm
Msg #344185

Interesting question, however, you can only harm your

friend by giving him/her advice from title-ie notaries, IMHO.

Friend needs to stop procrastinating and get an attorney to manage this situation.

It's very possible that the POA has many other issues than the name issue. I won't go into those, but suggest one solution...get an attorney to parse through this.

Reply by jjill_CA on 7/8/10 1:25pm
Msg #344197

I've been talking back and forth with him about some of the suggestions (especially the attorny one!) and it sounds like one of the issues with the title company has to do with the fact that the PoA he has is more of a 'general' kind, not one specifice to Real Estate. I didn't really know there was a difference...

Thanks for all your suggestions...much easier to tell a friend you need an attorney when you have a bunch of others 'backing' you up!