Posted by Bettyanne Walther on 7/23/10 12:02pm
Msg #346069

Vital Signing, Inc.

They called me yesterday to do a mod. I agreed. Then when I printed the docs it appeared to be one of those scam companies that say they will do a mod for troubled people and just steal their money. Since I wasn't sure about Ryan Law Firm, I called the borrower to confirm and asked him if he was comfortable with this process he was beginning. He said he was. I said that I had never worked with this company and that there are similar companies out there that are scamming people so I just wanted to be sure. I agreed to come and assist him with the paperwork.
A while later I got a call from Vital Signings saying that they heard I had called the borrower and asked if he was comfortable with what he was doing. I said "yeah....." and..? They said I was being removed from the assignment and was not to contact the borrower again. I said this raises all kinds of red flags! I would not normally contact the borrower once removed from the appt but now that they said I was prohibited from contacting him, I might just call him.
I thought Vital Signings was a legit group. I emphasized with both the borrower and Vital Signings that I am a legit signing agent and only deal with legit companies and ALWAYS ask my borrowers if they are comfortable with the terms involved in the process. What's wrong with that? I now have GREAT misgivings about Vital Signings and their relationship with these groups.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 7/23/10 12:10pm
Msg #346070

Was it just the application or were you to collect money? And I definitely wouldn't call the borrower back again.

Reply by Frank/NC on 7/23/10 12:37pm
Msg #346074

I don't mean to be negative or unkind but I don't think I would have mentioned any of that to the borrower. I think that if I had any reservations I would call the company I took the assignment from and discussed it with them. As Notaries we do loan mods pretty frequently.
Planting the "possible scam" seed in the borrower's mind presented and issue to Vital Signings.

Reply by Julie/MI on 7/23/10 12:38pm
Msg #346075

You overstepped your bounds. Period.

Reply by JulieD/KS on 7/23/10 12:43pm
Msg #346077

I agree. If you weren't comfortable with it, you should have declined to do the signing.
Hopefully, this won't come back to haunt you. I know you were just trying to look out for the guy, but asking questions like that could land you in some trouble.

Reply by Bettyanne Walther on 7/23/10 2:59pm
Msg #346087

trouble in what way?

Reply by desktopfull on 7/23/10 6:20pm
Msg #346108

Agree 100% Hope she has a good E & O if she cost them

this deal and the borrower backout over her statements. Looks like her comments bothered the borrower enough that they made some calls questioning the remarks.

Reply by desktopfull on 7/23/10 6:25pm
Msg #346113

I meant liability policy, E & O won't cover this. n/m

Reply by CopperheadVA on 7/23/10 12:57pm
Msg #346078

I agree with the others that it was not a good idea to say what you did to the signer. Final loan mod agreements are fine, but I don't do loan mod applications - PERIOD. Just too many crooks in that business and I won't expose myself to being a part of it in any way. But I'm wondering why it's bothering you? From their poor reviews in Signing Central, losing Vital as a client was no big deal.

Reply by Bettyanne Walther on 7/23/10 3:00pm
Msg #346089

Because I thought them to be a legit signing service and this was posted as a warning for others.

Reply by desktopfull on 7/23/10 7:07pm
Msg #346119

Have you ever heard of Liable? You might want to investigate the legal meaning of that before posting any more comments about the hiring entities. JMHO, Not giving legal advice, etc.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 7/23/10 2:32pm
Msg #346082

Anotlher case of : Ready, aim, shoot yourself in the foot"

Vital, has been around for years, and I happen to have met and spent
time with the owners. No indications, ever, that they would knowingly
participate in a scam.
As others have said , IMO, you crossed the line big time, by giving the customers
a "scam alert" with no knowledge of what was transpiring.
Apparently you had not yet received the proposed documents, nor the instructions at the time that you made the , "Are you sure that you want to go ahead with this, as it may not be legit" call
If you don't want to take a job, then don't , but a NSA has no business contacting customers
with those types of questions.
Believe me, this forum is monitored by potential consumers of NSA services. You may
have very well gotten your name on several "DO NOT CALL EVER" lists.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 7/23/10 2:45pm
Msg #346084

100% agree with Bob n/m

Reply by Bettyanne Walther on 7/23/10 3:01pm
Msg #346091

Re: Anotlher case of : Ready, aim, shoot yourself in the foot"

It was the receipt of the docs that led to the question.

Reply by LMS on 7/23/10 2:46pm
Msg #346085

I also agree with everyone else you were totally out of line. You should have called Vital and spoke them about your misgivings. They always answer calls, they're professional and if you didn't want to do it you should have returned it. They would have had a lot more respect for your professionalism and you wouldn't have lost potential future business.

Copperhead, I have worked for Vital for years. They always pay me my fee and always pay exactly as they say they will. They are a good company and personally I love working for them.

Reply by JulieD/KS on 7/23/10 2:49pm
Msg #346086

I stopped working for Vital back in about 2005. They used to pay decently but then dropped their edoc-signing fee to $70. I stopped working for them at that time. Too much hand holding and not nearly a big enough fee. I wouldn't worry about losing their business, either....unless they've changed.

Reply by LMS on 7/23/10 3:02pm
Msg #346092

I don't work for $70 and they always meet my fee.

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 7/23/10 2:59pm
Msg #346088

If we are not comfortable with an assignment, we can discuss it with the contracting entity. We have the option to turn the assignment down. It is not our place to make sure that clients are comfortable with the terms of a transaction. That responsibility belongs to the loan officers, real estate agents and attorneys. Our job is to ensure they are proceeding with the transaction as their "free and voluntary act" with no influence from us. There are certain companies that take advantage of homeowners in difficult situations and we simply turn those assignments down.

Reply by Bettyanne Walther on 7/23/10 3:05pm
Msg #346093

"free and voluntary act" or comfortable with what they're doing...I don't see the difference.

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 7/23/10 3:12pm
Msg #346094

Asking a client up front if they are comfortable with the process they are beginning is simply out of line. You don't have the right to ask - you weren't hired as the transaction police. Only when one is at the table and it is clear a principal is proceeding under duress are you free to terminate the assignment if the loan officer/attorney/RE agent cannot set things right on the spot.

Reply by LMS on 7/23/10 3:18pm
Msg #346095

You might see the difference better if you get sued.

Reply by Vital Signing, Inc. on 7/23/10 5:43pm
Msg #346103

We totally agree with LMS!!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/23/10 7:45pm
Msg #346126

If you don't see the difference, then maybe you're in the wrong field. You could be opening yourself up to all kinds of liability. (BTW if you decide to follow desktopfull's recommendation above, it should be spelled "libel".

This business takes a bit more than some basic knowledge. It also takes some common sense. I'm not begin facetious here nor am I trying to be harsh. But I'm genuinely concerned for you if you don't get this concept!

Reply by desktopfull on 7/23/10 9:25pm
Msg #346136

I know I misspelled, sorry I was in a hurry to get out the door. Thanks for the correction. I just hope she doesn't get into any legal problems over this, I know she thought she was going the extra mile but took it in the wrong direction.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/23/10 10:36pm
Msg #346142

Actually, we both goofed! "Libel" is something else altogether. I was also in a hurry to get out the door! It hit me driving down the road between my last two appointments. Sheesh!!

But I think I saw that you properly corrected it above to refer to "liability". Oh well... But it's great to be busy enough to have to be dashing out quick posts, no?!

Reply by desktopfull on 7/23/10 10:49pm
Msg #346143

Sent you a PM n/m

Reply by MichiganAl on 7/23/10 5:46pm
Msg #346105

You were so far out of line. A lawsuit waiting to happen

Notary playing attorney and financial adviser. If you're not comfortable, you walk away.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 7/23/10 6:44pm
Msg #346116

Wow. Just WOW. Bettyanne, your post could be the

difinitive example of why some people wade through a job in which they have no business.

And to top it off, after being instructed NOT to re-contact borrower, you're even contemplating calling -again-? Whoooboy. If, after being assured I would not be contacted by you again, and you called me? I'd be livid.

And, as a third helping of idiocy, you post your preposterous reaction and 'opinions' on a public forum.

I wouldn't hire you on a bet.

JMHO.

Reply by Blueink_TN on 7/23/10 9:24pm
Msg #346135

Re: Wow. Just WOW. Bettyanne, your post could be the

My feelings exactly Susan - and you put it so eloquently***. My gosh, a signing service's nightmare. Perhaps, she is just missing her true calling - I bet Bettyanne Columbo would make a perfect 'secret catch-a-shoplifter shopper' at Walmart. Yep, yep, yep - trust no one, I'm watching y o u !!! Sometimes it's hard to find the right fit for a position - however one should know when it's not going to work and move on to something else.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 7/23/10 11:26pm
Msg #346147

So true, Blue - sometimes it's just not a good fit. n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/23/10 8:55pm
Msg #346130

There are several KEY questions you can ask a scheduler that will reveal whether the assignment is the final loan mod or a loan mod APPLICATION.

1. Is this the FINAL loan mod or the *application*? [They may lie and say it's the final loan mod to get you to agree to do the job.]

Then the next questions are:

2. Am I notarizing any signatures?
3. Am I collecting post dated checks, OR having the client fill out and sign a debit/credit card withdrawal preauthorization form?
4. Am I collecting copies of: pay stubs, tax returns, mortgage payment coupons, etc.?
5. Is the client filling out other forms?

THOSE questions will reveal the TRUE job description. You will find that companies give a loan mod application job many different names - names other than it's true name. If you ask questions and the scheduler studders, is vague, talks fast so you cannot get a word in edgewise, wants to hurry and send you the confirmation without discussing fees - just turn down the job right then and there. They most likely are offering you a loan mod *application* job.

Reply by CT_Notary on 7/24/10 1:11am
Msg #346150

Re: Legit

I have signed for Vital for 10-12 years. While we do not always agree on fees offered, when we have reached an agreement, they have ALWAYS paid as promised and in a reasonable time period.

Furthermore, when issues have come up, I was always treated professionally.

It is up to you to negotiate your terms and it is up to them to negotiate theirs.

With regard to the conversation, I too believe you crossed a line. I choose not to do cash up front mortgage renegotiation applications either. Sometimes a client will slip one in by misrepresenting the assignment. BUT I will only discuss my concern with the company that hired me and if I am not reassured, I will leave it to them to decide how to reassign the "closing" to another notary and to communicate that to the borrower.