Posted by DaveCA/CA on 7/27/10 10:53pm
Msg #346531

journal procedure at jails and prisons

A couple of weeks back, there was a great post telling how different people cover previous journal entries. Some folded papers, others covered up, etc. I'm going to see an inmate later this week and the only contact with them is through a tiny hole in the glass (Glass wall separate inmates from visitors) that barely fits a journal. I will need to slide it through. The last time I did this, it was a brand new journal. I didn't need to worry about covering up any prior info. What if inmate does something stupid like starts ripping pages or anything? I have no way of concealing the other info if they want to get to it. What should I do? I appreciate your feedback.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 7/27/10 11:20pm
Msg #346534

In my experience, they always have a guard standing right there. The biggest concern is getting the pen back. They could use it as a weapon.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/28/10 12:43am
Msg #346540

The one that I go to the most often (a federal immigration detention center) doesn't even have that slidy thing -- it's all glass. They bring the detainee to a central counter. He stands back, and the Sheriff's Deputy passes the journal between myself and the detainee, and gets the thumbprint for me. I'm watching the entire time... and it's all done within about 5 feet of me.

It's never been an issue for me.

Although, I was there today and it was weird because they just let the detainee right up to the counter to do everything. That's never happened before. In this particular case, I'm sure they were not worried about this guy. His situation is way different that most of the guys there... and it was obvious that the Deputy running the counter had a LOT of trust in this guy. For privacy reasons, I can't really explain why... but I could see that he seemed to have a few privileges that others didn't.

Reply by janCA on 7/28/10 9:27am
Msg #346561

So Marian, is the guy with the privileges someone we would all recognize??????????

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/28/10 9:48am
Msg #346566

Not likely, no. n/m

Reply by James Dawson on 7/28/10 2:10am
Msg #346545

When I need a signature from an inmate for a Document this is what happens. The following is always COORDINATED IN ADVANCE.

Attorney or relative is the creditable witness..signs my journal. They always have the inmate's ID/ Cal Drv Lic, etc. Inmate usually behind glass, small slot (big enough to handle maybe five sheets of paper). I give the guard my pen when they come out to search me and that is used to sign the doc, guard usually gives it back when I leave but I have starting giving the guard the pen because I don't want to wait.

Anyway, I make sure inmate understands the Doc, watch them sign and return to me and that's it. If it involves property, the person hiring me always must have POA. Inmate has no access to my journal.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/28/10 7:25am
Msg #346554

Re: journal procedure at jails and prisons...James

I'm confused about a few things in your post:

1. If inmate has ID why do you need CW? In fact, my understanding is if signer has ID you CAN'T use CW's..
2. Why the POA requirement if property is involved? I would guess the answer is so the inmate doesn't have to sign your journal, but by what authority do you make that stipulation?
3. Inmate has no access to your journal? You never have them sign? (and get their thumbprint if property involved?)

Curious.

Reply by janCA on 7/28/10 9:23am
Msg #346560

Re: journal procedure at jails and prisons...James

I agree, Linda. Confusing. There's a lot of debate on the CW issue and I'm one of those that agrees that if the signer has ID, CW's shouldn't be used but that is my interpretation of the law. And you have to use 2 CW's unless the notary actually "knows" the signer. Plus, James, you have someone other than the signer, sign your journal? Reason for the POA? But who makes that decision? Always the attorney I hope. Just wondering.

Reply by James Dawson on 7/28/10 9:51am
Msg #346567

The OP belongs to Dave I was responding to his post. Someone

has accused me in the past of hijacking a post and making it all about me. That is not where I was going with this, please.

Reply by James Dawson on 7/28/10 9:40am
Msg #346563

Re: journal procedure at jails and prisons...James

1. Relative/attorney has ID.....Inmates only have wristband with PFN

2. I make no stipulation....I stated in post..."Coordinated in advance." Usually a relative will already have POA to handle the inmate's business, bank withdrawal, sales of property like a vehicle. Sometimes this is also done with a "subscribing witness" but not all that common.

3. POA....you cannot sit down with a prisoner in state prison and take their thumbprint..here.

The discussion about what happens, in my post do not necessarily happen in that order or for any one person. I was merely stating a "variety" of things that could happen/options. Why am I there, divorce papers, child custody affidavits, bank withdrawals, etc

I posted about this before where I mentioned I wouldn't take the Judge's "word" to ID an inmate.

Let's see...I guess that's it oh yea, $200.00 dollars

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 7/28/10 10:10am
Msg #346571

... When I go to Jail ...

...when I go to the local County Jail, the little cubicle they let you into has a little slot, just big enough to slide a page of the journal through. So I just slide the signature page through & the inmate, who has their own pen, signs it. For privacy reasons, I always start a new page so if the guy does rip off the page it is blank. But why would the inmate do that? My being there is usually to the inmates advantage. I realize this is somewhat of a sacrifice of the journal, but I don't go to jail that often so it is not a big loss should it happen (& the client still pays the travel fee & doesn't get the notarization, but that has never happened). Getting a thumbprint is harder --- I have to get the Detention Officer to carry the journal & ink pad back into the inmates part of the non-contact room, get the print, then bring it back. Sometimes this happens pretty fast, sometimes not. & if the D.O., or the shift commander doesn't want it to happen, for what ever reason, your sunk. & sometimes they don't tell you they won't/can't do it until your in the non-contact room & sometimes they just change their mind. & then your sunk.
It seems like every time I go to the jail, the procedure is a little bit different & sometimes that works to your advantage but usually not. It usually means more time waiting around.

Reply by Jacqueline Dyson on 7/28/10 11:55am
Msg #346581

Re: ... When I go to Jail ...

I slip my journal through the slot side ways. Yes, the inmate can see previous signatures but no other info. I also slide my ink pad through the slot for fingerprinting. I do a good amount of notary work at the jail. Great pay might I add. I think sometimes we get just too technical and forget what our true role as a notary is.

Reply by ssdn on 7/28/10 12:39pm
Msg #346598

Re: ... When I go to Jail ...

can you give us a ballpark figure of how much do you charge for these type of signing.? (Jail)
So the standard is not too low. Just asking , I thank you in advance..

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/28/10 11:53pm
Msg #346729

Too technical??

"sometimes we get just too technical and forget what our true role as a notary is."

I'm not sure what you mean by this... Care to elaborate?