Posted by Alice/MD on 6/16/10 2:50pm
Msg #341232

172 pages in BOA docs.

Scheduler said " I don't know how many pages there will be in the docs" I printed 344 pages and almost threw my back out carrying docs to borrower.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/16/10 3:05pm
Msg #341235

I just turned a BOA one back that was 168 pages because they refused to up my fee to cover it.   I also didn't know there were fax backs until the docs came in.  Some want them, some don't.    When I was called to do this closing, the scheduler talked so fast and practially hung up on me when I told her I was available.  She didn't give me a chance to ask 1 question.,   Then the confirmation came and it was for $75.   No way, so I called her back and of course she was not available. Took me 1/2 hour to find someone to up it or I'm not available anymore.   Then the docs come and its huge and I emailed her again and she said ok to up the fee, then she emailed again and said she found someone else.   I am done with them.

Reply by AngelTX on 6/16/10 3:10pm
Msg #341238

what ss was it if you dont mind asking

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 6/16/10 3:12pm
Msg #341240

yes, please tell us who n/m

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/16/10 3:30pm
Msg #341246

LSI n/m

Reply by Calnotary on 6/16/10 3:53pm
Msg #341254

Linda LSI pays what ever you have signed in their contract.

Maybe it's time to revise that contract.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/16/10 4:03pm
Msg #341256

Re: Linda LSI pays what ever you have signed in their contract.

I have never done a $75 closing for LSI.   They put that there, not me and I don't think I ever signed a contract with them either.  I honestly don't remember. 

Reply by bagger on 6/16/10 4:10pm
Msg #341260

Re: Linda LSI pays what ever you have signed in their contract.

In defense of LSI, they are probably my biggest client, and I love working for them.
I get paid in LESS than 30 days, no problems. I will continue to work for LSI in a heartbeat. They automatically up my fee when the driving distance is exceeded. I have never had to call them to ask where my check is. LSI is one of the best!
When they call, i accept immediately.

Reply by Alice/MD on 6/16/10 4:31pm
Msg #341265

Re: LSI is not the company involved

LSI in not the company in question and I don't want to name the company involved because I blame myself for not following up when the docs were excessively huge . I will PM anyone who insist on wanting to know.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/16/10 4:46pm
Msg #341274

Bagger, aren't you in a very rural area?

I'm guessing yes and that's why they'll pay you whatever you ask .

Reply by bagger on 6/16/10 6:11pm
Msg #341295

Re: Bagger, aren't you in a very rural area?

OMG no Cari. Unless you consider the corner of Dupage, Kane and Crook counties a rural area. hey keep calling me, and have met my fees several times.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/18/10 9:14am
Msg #341511

oh hey Richard, I thought you were someone else! Hello! n/m

Reply by Eileen Rubinstein on 6/16/10 3:22pm
Msg #341245

know exactly what you mean. sometimes they say a small packet and then you print up hundreds of docs.

Reply by GA/Atty on 6/16/10 3:34pm
Msg #341247

You don't really have to print every page.

It might still be a lot to print, but you can safely skip the 25 or so pages of BOA closing instructions, for example.

Also there is no need to print out multiple NORTCs to send back to the lender, or pages of privacy policies to send back to the lender, or instructions pages for the W-9's etc.

And then you can be selective in the borrowers copies as well if you just think in terms of giving them generally (1) copies of anything they are going to sign and (2) any disclosures designed to provide them with information. Some of the docs do not fall into either one of these categories.

You can save a lot of paper by being selective, even if you are really conservative about it.

Reply by Mdene_AZ on 6/16/10 3:38pm
Msg #341248

Re: You don't really have to print every page.

However, you are really doing a whole lot of sorting through!

Reply by Alice/MD on 6/16/10 3:51pm
Msg #341253

Re: You don't really have to print every page.

When the docs are 6 hours late and you are printing as fast as you can to get this signing done by 10PM, you don't have time to sort out pages to NOT print. When I had to print the appraisal report and all the photos included I was not happy. I told the SS that I was not happy with the fee I had agreed to, he said I was paid xxx which is more than usual.

Reply by bagger on 6/16/10 3:56pm
Msg #341255

Re: You don't really have to print every page.

If the docs are 6 hours late, I would tell then to reschedule.
6 hours is ridiculous, they just wasted 6 hours of your time and you should be compensated for that 6 hours.
Sounds like the hiring company has a problem, not you. They need to study a bit about the supplier/vendor relationship.

Reply by JulieD/KS on 6/16/10 4:29pm
Msg #341263

Re: You don't really have to print every page.

Regarding Alice's post:
That's why I give a 3-hour deadline for receiving docs and I stick to it. I let them know in advance (when they hire me) what my deadline is and that if docs aren't received by the deadline, the signing is removed from my schedule. If docs come (or rather, when they come in) they can then call me and see if I am still available. If I am, my fee will be higher.

I also don't do signings after 8pm anymore because of a couple of situations where I felt personally in danger.

These are my company policies and I follow them to the letter these days. Been through the wringer with these companies too many times.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/16/10 4:54pm
Msg #341277

6 hours late???

I would never let that fly. Those that hire me know right away that if I don't have the docs by x hours before the signing, it's a no go.

There's no excuse for late docs. If they are ready to schedule a closing, the docs should be ready to go well in advance. I do not accept that "that's the business" mantra so many people use.


I simply don't put up with it.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/16/10 4:57pm
Msg #341278

was this a purchase? pictures, appraisal report? n/m

Reply by CF on 6/16/10 7:48pm
Msg #341303

Re: You don't really have to print every page.

The last time a BOA had that the appraisal in for me to print....I called up and demanded to be paid an extra $50.00 and told them to call their appraisal company and have them send the copy to the borrower as part of their $300.00 fee.

Of course, they could not give me that much. I refused to print it and told them in writing that I was not. They agreed. It is total BS that we would be expected to print out the appraisal for the borrowers. These borrowers did not receive their advance copy either....this is the responsibility of the appraisal company.

This company was a 1-3 per year gig for me anyway....I could care less if they ever called me again. They tried to lowball me first anyway. I find it amusing that other lowball notaries in my area take their requests. I have so many better things to do with my time...than to make $8.00 per hour.

Reply by LynnNC on 6/16/10 3:50pm
Msg #341252

I don' think that we can pick and choose...

...what documents to give the borrowers, although that being said, I do not give the 25 or so pages of BOA closing instruction.

Reply by Ali/IL on 6/16/10 6:24pm
Msg #341299

Re: You don't really have to print every page.

GA are you saying that we shouldn't print out those instructions period? Or just not make borrowers copies?
I questioned a title company they couldn't tell me for sure.
I often wonder why one company will want me to fax back the boa docs while another won't.

Reply by GA/Atty on 6/17/10 9:54am
Msg #341348

You do not have to print them out at all. n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/16/10 8:08pm
Msg #341308

Shame on you, GA/Atty !!

<<<It might still be a lot to print, but you can safely skip the 25 or so pages of BOA closing instructions, for example.......Also there is no need to print out multiple NORTCs to send back to the lender, or pages of privacy policies to send back to the lender, or instructions pages for the W-9's etc.......And then you can be selective in the borrowers copies as well if you just think in terms of giving them generally (1) copies of anything they are going to sign and (2) any disclosures designed to provide them with information. Some of the docs do not fall into either one of these categories.......You can save a lot of paper by being selective, even if you are really conservative about it.>>>

I cannot believe you are encouraging Notaries to pick and choose which pages to print from and edoc file. Whatever the TC emails should be printed - it is not up to a Notary what the borrower should and should not receive a copy of. If the Notary prices the signing accordingly in the first place, it would not then be necessary to call and ask for additional monies. Shame on you!

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/16/10 8:30pm
Msg #341312

GA you're an attorney, YOU can pick and choose because of

of that fact. You are not bound by the same rules as an NSA. You can in fact, advise the BO of certain things regarding their lona, that we NSA's do not dare due to upl. And it appears that you can also pick and choose which docs the BO should sign.

I do take a bit longer putting the docs in order of 'importance', having the non-sig docs in the back. But I do print out ALL the docs. I want to get in and get out quickly and move on to the next closing. BUT I would be seriously overstepping my nsa duty if I didn't give the BO a copy of ALL the docs sent to me for THEIR closing....

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/16/10 8:31pm
Msg #341313

typo, should be 'loan' not lona or even lola....geez... n/m

Reply by GA/Atty on 6/17/10 9:49am
Msg #341346

I seriously doubt it is UPL not to print the 25 or so pages

of BOA closing instructions.

Do you give the borrowers a copy of the last page of some closing packages that says simply


"This is the last page of the closing package"?


If you do, and you think that failing to do so is UPL, then by all means continue to do it. But you don't have to be an attorney to know that that is completely unnecessary.

Reply by GA/Atty on 6/17/10 9:51am
Msg #341347

No shame in exercising common sense.

If you want to print every page x 2 every time, by all means go for it.

But there is nothing wrong with an experienced NSA using common sense.

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/17/10 11:37am
Msg #341366

Re: No shame in exercising common sense.

<<<But there is nothing wrong with an experienced NSA using common sense.>>>

Has nothing to do with "an experienced NSA using common sense". The "common sense is TC emails it and you print it x2 (minus the Notary instructions), period. Not the NSAs decision as to what does not get printed for the borrower, and you shouldn't be advocating that a *Notary* pick and choose.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/17/10 2:07pm
Msg #341401

I agree with Lisa and the rest who oppose this idea

We as notaries don't have the latitude to decide "okay, borrowers don't need that" - you as an attorney can get away with it - we laypeople can't...

I'll keep printing.

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 6/17/10 6:05pm
Msg #341447

Not a tree hugger, but come on...

I don't give them a copy of the BOA 26-page instructions. Sometimes there are 2 or more copies of the mortgage, riders, note, hud and/or 1003, but I just print one of each document for their copy. I do not deprive them of any document, but they don't need or want the BOA instructions or multiple copies (except the RTC).

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 6/20/10 12:33am
Msg #341648

Re: You don't really have to print every page. * Sorry, but

GA/Atty, while I can understand your common sense reasoning, I have to disagree with you, at least for any non-attorney SA.

Before I state why I disagree, let me say that if a SA has set their prices properly this should never an issue, other than the ridiculousness of the actual size of the packages. It becomes an issue when someone shortchanges themselves by not sticking to their own fee schedule. Accepting low ball fees or discounting ones own fees will automatically result in the need to cut corners just to make a true profit for the time invested. If the regular fee charged does not cover the costs, then they have not properly set their fees. JMO, but if someone accepts a lower fee, they should preform the entire job they were contracted to do. That's what professionals are supposed to do.

My disagreement reasoning:
1) SA's are contracted to provide certain services as a disinterested 3rd party in the process. As such, we should preform the job that we agreed to preform in total. If we didn't charge enough that is on us, not anyone else. Accepting a lower (or even a low ball) fee offer is the same thing as not charging enough. Can't really blame a company for not wanting to overpay someone eager to accept less than a professional fee. (Not implying this is the case in the OP of this thread just as a general rule)

2) If someone did not print the entire set of docs and the SS found out, in some cases, depending upon some of the outrageous contracts that are hardly read, or even fully understood, by some, the SS might decide they have a right to refuse payment as the job was not completed as agreed. If they were having cashflow issues, it might be a tempting out for some of them.

3) IMO, if an SA picks the pages to print and should they make a mistake of some sort, the amount of increased liability they would be needlessly exposing themselves to, and by extension the SS, TC and the lender as well, is too large to justify saving a few dollars on paper and ink. All it would take is a one time mistake. It might turn out to be one of those save a $1 today cost you a $1,000+ later type of situations.

A CD copy of the files might be an option as opposed to selecting only certain docs to print or not to print. The topic of CD Borrowers Copy has been discussed many times so I won't be going into the good/bad idea side of giving a borrower a CD copy. Just mentioning it.

*** DISCLAIMER: The following paragraph is meant to be an example only. I am not an attorney and neither this specific example or any other part of this post, should be considered legal advice. This paragraph is a hypothetical example only. ***
The borrowers might be in great financial shape today, but what if they lost their jobs down the road and were to be told that because they did not receive a complete set of (borrowers copy) docs at closing, they just might be able to save their house from foreclosure. Just as being too "helpful" or "friendly" (above job description) with borrowers can come back to bite you, someone's likability is not a concern for any homeowner facing foreclosure and told there may be a way to stop it if they did not receive a "complete" set of the docs or even a certain set of specific docs at closing. It is relatively easy to prove you gave someone a set of docs at closing, however, once you admit that you gave them some but not all it would be nearly impossible to prove you "did" actually give them a copy of ABC docs.

Reply by MW/VA on 6/16/10 4:34pm
Msg #341268

I don't know if it will work with the ss you're dealing with, but I usually call the co. & get an extra print fee for large packages (over 140 pages). I add at least $15 additional & get it most of the time.

Reply by Alice/MD on 6/16/10 4:42pm
Msg #341273

Marilynn , I think your suggestion is great and I will adopt it as part of my business plan. I never stop learning from this form. Thanks to all !!

Reply by MW/VA on 6/16/10 4:58pm
Msg #341279

You're welcome, Alice. n/m

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/16/10 5:21pm
Msg #341284

Marilyn, that was what I was asking for, an additional print

fee because the pkg was 168 pages.   LSI would not budge.  

Reply by JulieD/KS on 6/16/10 10:04pm
Msg #341321

In the email that I send to the company that hires me, I tell them that my edoc fee includes packages of up to 100 pages and packages over 100 pages will require an additional print fee. I also tell them the exact time the docs must be received or I remove them from my schedule and rescheduling will require additional fees. No exceptions.

I've learned to lay out my stipulations immediately so they know I'm not going to fuss around with late docs, excessively huges packages, undisclosed faxbacks, etc. I also stipulate up front that late payments will be charged interest over 30 days.

The reason I can to do all this is because of years and years of SS companies hosing me in one way or another. I decided, I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO.

I'm a business and as a business, it's up to me to set the rules.

Reply by MichiganAl on 6/16/10 4:38pm
Msg #341272

BOA has just lost their minds

They get more and more ridiculous by the day. More docs, more fax backs, more rules. Their purchase closings now take a minimum of two hours. Sign a stack of docs, sort out and fax back 60 pages, and then wait forever for them to review and give you a funding number to disburse. I don't think a day has gone by in months that I haven't heard at least one person somewhere complain about BOA. It's not surprising that they were recently rated the second worst company in terms of customer service in America (AOL was number one).

Reply by Alice/MD on 6/16/10 4:53pm
Msg #341276

Re: BOA has just lost their minds

Amen Alex, they are getting more ridiculous by the day. From this point on I will have to know if BOA is involved. This was a Wells Fargo loan being serviced by Bank of America. Well, you go figure!!

Reply by MW/VA on 6/16/10 5:01pm
Msg #341280

I'm not aware that faxbacks are a lender requirement by BofA

I think it is mainly a QC issue of the tc/ss & is b/s. Faxbacks for funding is one thing--anything else if a PIA, and often holds up shipping the docs back. I did one the other week, supposed to faxback critical docs only, which turned out to be 40 pages.
This seems to be going the way of the old C/W loans--large packages, faxbacks or extra hoops.
I see WellsFargo or Citibank packages all the time, so I know how unnecessary all the extra stuff is. Again, we do what we're required to do--but we don't always like it. LOL

Reply by Alice/MD on 6/16/10 5:14pm
Msg #341283

Re: I'm not aware that fax backs are a lender requirement by BofA

There were no fax backs. This was a purchase .....I knew the persons involved. I decided to stay with them until the deal was done. However, this was a closing that was scheduled for 2 PM and did not get docs until 9PM with corrections that still needed to be done to the deed of trust and the HUD ... after I reviewed docs. Oh my !!!!

Reply by MichiganAl on 6/16/10 7:43pm
Msg #341302

Re: I'm not aware that faxbacks are a lender requirement by BofA

These are full purchase closings (buyer, seller, Realtors, title company) that I do for several local title companies. BOA includes a list of docs in their closing package that must be faxed from the closing table to them (they go to BOA, not the title company). BOA reviews them for compliance and then (eventually) issues a funding number. I can not pass out checks or document copies to anyone at the table without that funding number. So we just all sit around waiting, chatting, playing quarter bounce, whatever.

Reply by CF on 6/16/10 7:58pm
Msg #341306

BOA and AOL- I can see the connection

Their rating does not surprise me. So many people that are refinancing want to get away from BOA...they hate them. Then they get sold right back to them, in some cases. Kind of like tyring to cancel your AOL account.....years ago it took me over 9 mos to get them to stop billing me.

I had a loan about 2 mos ago not sign b/c the lender could not guarantee the borrowers that they would not be sold back to BOA. We were almost done when the notification that their loan may be re-assigned in the future docs came out.

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 6/17/10 6:11pm
Msg #341448

Re: BOA and AOL- I can see the connection

No one can guarantee that. I had the same situation once with borrowers who hated Wells Fargo. They wanted assurance they wouldn't end up with Wells Fargo again. The LO couldn't promise that. Even if the lender knows who they're selling it to, the new lender could sell it to WF later on. Thankfully, the borrowers finally signed.