Posted by 101livescan on 6/4/10 8:01am
Msg #339718

24/7 Notaries

Another Notary referral site in our space is asking subscribers to substantiate their status of 24/7 availability or they will remove the 24/7 icon. Usually, if a borrower wants to sign after 9pm or before 7am, it is arranged in advance with the notary in advance. I have had one call in 10 years to do a signing at midnight, because the borrower was told by his LO docs had to be signed the next day and he was leaving on a 5am flight out of Santa Barbara to New York and had to be at the airport at 4am.

How many of you get calls to do signings after 9p or before 7am....for me it's rare. Just curious. I am available 24/7 by appointment. Just how crazy is this business...Love to know how many of you get calls in the wee hours, say 10-3am.

Reply by Sir_Lawrence on 6/4/10 8:05am
Msg #339720

one............1............. in the last 3 years..........

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/4/10 8:12am
Msg #339725

About 3 in 7 years

And one was an attempted scam.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 6/4/10 11:11am
Msg #339775

2 in 7 years n/m

Reply by Yoli/CA on 6/4/10 12:36pm
Msg #339780

One 10 pm and two 6 am in past 5 years.

Reply by MW/VA on 6/4/10 8:14am
Msg #339726

I've never taken the 24/7 very literally. IMO it's always meant that I'm available most of the time. I've only ever done a few late signings--11 pm or Midnight, sometimes on weekends and holidays. This is a crazy business, but it's hard to imagine many emergency situations that couldn't be handled during reasonable hours.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/4/10 8:15am
Msg #339727

I don't do 24/7.... I drive my life and don't let others drive it and draw the line for self-preservation purposes - I offer services 8am-8pm (some loan signings go later, yes, but very few and even those I have my limits)...I feel those hours offer more than enough time to get stuff accomplished.

Yes, maybe I miss some calls for emergency notarizations...but to have to go out at 2am for $35 or less because they don't want to pay??? Not worth it to me...so why bother taking calls that late just say "no".

MHO

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 6/4/10 8:23am
Msg #339732

Late calls of that nature are always general notary work in my experience, which I will admit is limited because I don't do that much general stuff. The ones I have done have always been someone trying to get their towed car out of impound.

I don't charge $35 for them, either.

Reply by Sir_Lawrence on 6/4/10 8:35am
Msg #339736

No one drives my life because I choose to work 24x7. It's called being in business. I should have known better than to post here.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/4/10 8:54am
Msg #339741

"I should have known better than to post here. "

What the heck does that mean? I was responding to the OP with MY feelings and MY business hours...and why I don't do 24/7..

Jeez...

Reply by Frank/NC on 6/4/10 9:05am
Msg #339743

Although I am available 24/7 I have never received a call for a closing after 10 or 10:30 PM. I would do a closing after midnight but there would be a premium attached to it. However, somehow I think there is someone out there who would do it at 3 AM for the same $40 or $50 they get during normal business hours.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/4/10 9:14am
Msg #339744

2 calls in three years

One call was at around 2 AM for fingerprinting request I referred them to a bail bondsman the other was for someone to get on a plane (leaving the country on vacation) with a child that wasn't theirs. I took that one, $300.00

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 6/4/10 9:34am
Msg #339749

Calls after 10:30pm=0 Apts set for 9pm or later=several

In over 4 years I haven't received any 2am type calls. I put 24/7 availability because if I don't some companies will think I stop accepting appointments after a certain time (7.8, 9 .. take your pick). I have set several signing appointments for after 9pm and have no less than 5 around 11pm.

Others have set times that they will accept calls. Each business is run the way the owners decide to operate them. Either way (24/7 or set times), if it works for them, it works for them.

Like others I will accept a late or early call for a job, however, there is a premium for that service (not the the call itself, but for the actual job). I think most people that call at 2 or 3am would expect to pay more for the service at that time, if not then we can set up an appointment during the day for them.

The fact is we have a right to advertise our availability as we see fit. Maybe we should be calling that other site at 1-3am THEIR time. After all, their site is up 24/7 and they are the ones interfering with how we advertise.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/4/10 9:48am
Msg #339753

Re: Calls after 10:30pm=0 Apts set for 9pm or later=several

Just a couple weeks ago I was called for a 10pm closing.   I must have sounded like I really didn't want to do it, and he offered me a fee that I just couldn't refuse.   Yes, I did it.  They can pay quite well if they need it done and you are not quite yourself on the phone.    Another marketing tip.  hehe

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 6/4/10 9:58am
Msg #339755

I am NOT the notary police, but I doubt if any state

permits a charge for a general notarizaion in excess of statutory limit,
which, in some states, (not Illinois, IMO) include a reasonable or designated
travel rate based on miles traveled. I seriously doubt if any state permits an excess
charge for late hours, difficult location, reviewing dox, signing on a sinking ship, etc. etc.
In the case of NSA work, you are charging for many services in addition to the
NP work (printing, travel, supervising the signing of non-notarized dox , dropping of
pkg, etc, etc and you can legally charge whatver is agreed to with the hiring entity.
Personally the only general notary work that I perform is pro bono as Il has a $1.00 limit.
Wonder what might happen if a signer reported a NP to state authority for excess charges
by a NP because the signer was in an emergency situation and just paid whatever the
NP demanded.
This is NOT directed to any individual NOTROTer.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/4/10 10:21am
Msg #339761

I think that is a VERY good question Bob and hopefully

there will be some information presented addressing this issue. All of our circumstances and situations (not just NotRot'ers) are unique so it would be nice to know just to be on the safe side. i.e. Combat pay for going into rough neighborhoods.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/4/10 11:05am
Msg #339773

Okay I found the answer...for Ca

Government code 8211 shows what the restrictions are but doesn't address our/my question, appropriate fees to charge.

You can read for yourself but the bottom line is I'm satisfied with my fees charged.

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/gov/8200-8230.html

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 6/4/10 10:25am
Msg #339763

Re: I am NOT the notary police, but I doubt if any state

***I seriously doubt if any state permits an excess charge for late hours, difficult location, reviewing dox, signing on a sinking ship, etc. etc.***

Texas law would seem to be pretty clear that NPs are limited to the $6. It supposedly makes no provision for travel, hour, etc. For some time, I concocted several lame reasons to justify higher fees; it just didn't make sense that anybody would expect me to get out of bed at 2 a.m. and drive 15 miles to an impound lot for $6. Finally, I just grasped the nettle and called the SOS attorney.

Her response was that I was perfectly okay to charge more for services outside the norm. I didn't press her for her rationale. It gave me some basis for charging for additional service. If the SOS is happy, I'm happy.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/4/10 10:35am
Msg #339764

Re: I am NOT the notary police, but I doubt if any state

I was thinking along those lines also. I checked our state handbook and could find nothing referencing "out of hour" charges. Of course, normal business hours would justify normal charges. I can can see both sides....I just don't want to do anything illegal!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/4/10 1:36pm
Msg #339797

Here's how I see it - for my state, at least

California doesn't address the issue of travel or circumstances at all, so I see that as unregulated.

Here's the section again about taking an Ack:

"For taking an acknowledgment or proof of a deed, or other
instrument, to include the seal and the writing of the certificate,
the sum of ten dollars ($10) for each signature taken."

It details what is included, so I believe it can reasonably be inferred that anything not specified is not included. When I am sitting in my car in traffic, burning gas and my time, I am not in the process of taking an acknowledgment. It's my opinion that these fees assume a situation where a person walks into a place of business where there is a notary present. That's probably still the case the majority of people getting a notarization on a document.

FWIW, I got a call yesterday to notarize a document for an attorney's in-laws. The location is outside my usual territory for general notary work, which he realized before he called me, but he said he has no problem paying a little higher than my usual travel fee. (Not that most attorneys know notary law that well, but it's just never been an issue - even with attorneys where I'm doing an estate plan in their offices.)

Most people expect to pay a travel fee for the convenience of having someone come to them. That's a service that goes beyond notarizing signatures. For general notary work, I usually give people a choice, so I don't see a problem with it. If your state specifies a mileage limit (which I think is unreasonable, by the way), then that would be a different story.

Reply by ct on 6/4/10 10:44am
Msg #339765

Re: I am NOT the notary police, but I doubt if any state

When notarizing single documents I always charge the state fee per notarization but add my personal travel fee to it..its up to the consumer with hundreds of choices of notaries if they want to pay my fee..as far as I know there is nothing illegal for this..

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/4/10 10:50am
Msg #339770

State-specific, ct

Some states allow it, some regulate/restrict it, some don't allow it at all....

I agree...my notarization fees are what the state allows - my *business* expenses incurred as a result of that notarization are a separate issue to be agreed upon in advance between myself and the signer. So if I have an after-hour fee, or late night fee, or weekend fee, that's my business decision.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 6/4/10 4:27pm
Msg #339823

Thanks for the info Hugh n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/4/10 12:45pm
Msg #339784

Emergency situations...

Bob, that's one way of looking at it and surely the right one for IL. However, I fully believe that mobile notaries in Texas are unrestricted as far as charging for a reasonable amount for additional services. Otherwise, Texas lawyers would not find mobile notaries for their clients, negotiate a fee for the client and then have the client pay the notary when they arrive. (Referring to non-loan work.) I'm glad to learn what Hugh posted, too.

As far as emergency situations...I can't think of one "emergency" that I've received a call about unless the caller had simply neglected to take care of business.

-Towing. Students get their parents' cars towed all the time. Why? Because they parked in a no parking area because they didn't want to walk the distance required to the club or event. Or, they parked in a private yard at a party and the owner said to come and get the car...or they parked in a parking lot of a closed business where a sign says "NO PARKING AFTER HOURS - YOUR CAR WILL BE TOWED!".

-Ticket affidavits on Sunday nights. Supposed to have it mailed no later than Saturday. They just didn't get around to it during the day for the three weeks prior to that.

-On parole or probation and did not take care of business within the time they were supposed to.

-Need a will notarized, or a POA because of emergency surgery. If you can get the surgeon to wait until you find a notary, it's not really an emergency surgery...and besides, you've had a lifetime to put your affairs in order.

-My sister's got Daddy to sign a POA and she's going to sell his property tomorrow--please come notarize this new POA RIGHT AWAY...we can't pay you but $10 tonight, but we'll pay you on Tuesday after we get our checks. Well, don't do that one because Daddy's probably not lucid ... and for other obvious reasons.

Is there really an emergency notary situation? The above are all I have run into with what they have caused to become emergencies. And, there are plenty of notaries available at 8 am the next morning just like there were weeks or years before then.



-

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/4/10 12:58pm
Msg #339793

Re: Emergency situations...

Side note...I like it when they put a boot on a car so they can see where their little wonderful kiddies parked the family car.

And I just gotta tell you what a friend of mine's kid did. His wife drives from home to park in a commuter lot to catch BART ( rapid transit system). Kid comes everyday, with the extra set of keys, cuts school and joyrides. One day he get's in a accident, has the car towed back to the commuter lot (using his mom's credit card). So she get's off work, sees her car and can't figure out what happened,...until she gets her CC bill. Needed a bails bondsman for that emergency. LOL

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/4/10 4:15pm
Msg #339820

Re: Emergency situations...

"As far as emergency situations...I can't think of one "emergency" that I've received a call about unless the caller had simply neglected to take care of business."

That's been my experience also - if it was an emergency, they created it. Had one on one New Year's Day because the guy was reporting to the police academy the next morning and neglected to get some form notarized. He had only been sitting on it for a couple of weeks.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 6/4/10 2:19pm
Msg #339804

Re: I am NOT the notary police, but I doubt if any state

The charge per signature remains the same. A mobile notary is allowed travel fees. I have different travel fees for "after hours" than normal hours. Just as simple as that.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 6/4/10 4:21pm
Msg #339821

Re: I am NOT the notary police, but I doubt if any state

Just for clarification: It is your position that if someone gets a call for a general notary job at 2pm and gets a call for the exact same item (all things being equal) at 2am that the charge for the service should be the same? The actual notary fee is obviously the same as they are set by the state. But the service/convenience/travel (whatever the label) fee should also be the same?

If so, then when someone calls at 2am and someone were to refuse to get out of bed at that time, would that constitute a refusal to notarize? (For the states that do not allow refusals with proper ID)

As most TCs are closed by 7pm, or so, if the need for a 2am signing arose the appointment for such would normally be made much prior to 2am itself, I would think.

Not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand your view.

Reply by ct on 6/4/10 10:13am
Msg #339759

I found myself very offended with the email sent..I don't know why it rubbed me the wrong way..maybe because I pay good money to advertise there and I will do late night signings for a fee..in 7 years I have never had a 2am call but I have been out that late doing several signings for the late shift workers over the years..but to get an email saying they are going to do a test at 2am to see if i answer the phone appropriately or lose my 24 hour status..Give me the OWL!! I don't think I'll lose buckets of business so I'm Ok with that..But I will be going to my site and updating my notes explaining my policy..

Reply by Michelle/AL on 6/4/10 10:18am
Msg #339760

Lke you I'd been advertising 24/7 since I

got into this business. I imagined it would attract more business. It didn't. So I've revised many of my online listings and website to remove that phrase. I think I promote a 7-day availability but try and leave it at that.

I will never forget the time I received a phone call at 3:00 am from a gentlmen with a heavy foreign accent. He had a lot of questions for me about an immigration form that needed notarized. For the life of me I could not get my ears to wake up. I had to ask that poor guy to repeat himself numerous times. To this day I don't know what he really needed me to do. I wanted to interrupt him and ask him to call me back during normal business hours but since I'd advertised 24/7 I felt duty-bound to tough it out.

No more 24/7 for me.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/4/10 10:24am
Msg #339762

Re: Lke you I'd been advertising 24/7 since I

Hmmmm maybe I should also consider this too. Two calls in three years, I don't think I'd loose to much business either.

Reply by janCA on 6/4/10 12:46pm
Msg #339786

Re: Lke you I'd been advertising 24/7 since I

I advertise 24/7 on that site also and the email also rubbed me the wrong way. I've never gotten a 2 am call. I used to get calls all the time at 9, 10 and 11 when signings were in abundance but that hasn't happened in a couple of years.

I really get tired of the owner of that site trying to control what we put in our profiles. I don't give a hoot (pun intended) if I get an "owl". But saying they're going to call us at 2 in the morning for a "test", really, how bizarre and controlling is that?

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 6/4/10 4:29pm
Msg #339824

He has way too much time on his hands n/m

Reply by Tess on 6/4/10 12:50pm
Msg #339789

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

If you wish to change this behavior, say so!

Reply by Tess on 6/4/10 12:59pm
Msg #339794

PS: It affects how you come on the search, ANYTIME! n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/4/10 1:13pm
Msg #339796

I advertise 24/7, mostly for general notary work. On occasion, I get calls after 11pm....got one at 2:30am but the signer was in jail and the caller said he cannot have any visitors. I told her a Notary would have to see him to get his signature and if he cannot have visitors, then it's a no-go.

I had a legitimate 11:30pm general notary service call and my 19 yr old son and I made it to the client's home just after midnight. For those calls, I make it crystal clear that I only accept cash and I collect it upfront and they'll get a receipt. My after hours service fee (not including notarizations) starts at $100. I actually say to the caller that I will not notarize until I am handed the cash and if I am not handed the cash upfront, I will leave.

That appointment netted me $110 - one signature and $100 after hours service fee. He happily paid it because he said he called several other 24/7 Notaries and was actually told by them that they didn't feel like going out tonight. He had a plane to catch at 5am to complete a business deal in another state and HAD to have the paper notarized. I was only at his home for 15 mins.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 6/4/10 2:21pm
Msg #339805

Bingo!! n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 6/4/10 4:32pm
Msg #339825

Exactly! Perfect example! n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/4/10 1:52pm
Msg #339799

Like the others, I have had several appointments that took place after 10:00 pm. Most of them were situations where documents were late at end-of-month and just ended up being signed late. I did, however, have one not too long ago that was scheduled for 11:15 pm because that was when the wife got home from work at a hospital and they wanted it signed on that date. (We did the notarized docs right after reviewing the HUD, Note, etc.)

Once, though, did I get a call at 3:00 am. It scared the cr@p out of me, because the last time that happened someone had died. Turned out it was a young guy who was just getting off work and had some questions. It might have been a prank, but I think it was just that he took the 24/7 thing literally and that was when he was awake and available. He worked the late shift somewhere and he probably thought he was calling someone in a similar set-up. I've called a bank 24-hour number before during the wee hours myself for similar reasons.

When I first read the email, I was a bit put off, too. But the more I think about it, the more I think that a night-owl designation makes sense and could be a reasonable compromise. It could prevent the heart-stopping wake-up calls like the one I got, but still leave open the idea that a person will consider late appointments. And as someone said, we can address the issue however we want to in our profiles.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/4/10 4:10pm
Msg #339819

"asking subscribers to substantiate their status of 24/7 availability or they will remove the 24/7 icon."

How are you supposed to substantiate it? If you say you're available 24/7, then you're available 24/7.

I've only ever gotten one call for a signing after 9PM, and that was because it was scheduled for early the next morning and the other notary bailed out. The other late calls I've received were for general notary work.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/4/10 7:25pm
Msg #339848

If you list 24/7 on that site...they want you to agree that they can call you between 1am-3am and you'll answer your phone.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/5/10 12:20am
Msg #339897

Do they actually call you during that time period to test you?

Reply by Debi Upton on 6/4/10 7:04pm
Msg #339847

We must be neighbors! About 2 weeks ago, I did a signing at 6:30am in Summerland for the same thing, the borrower was going from SB airport to NY at 8am. I have had a couple of signings at 10pm, but nothing between these hours. Thank goodness!

Reply by taxpro on 6/4/10 8:10pm
Msg #339862

To me, the 24/7 designation does not necessarily mean 24/7 literally, but it means that I can be available after normal business hours, and it's negotiable for a price.

She wanted to come to my office that afternoon to sign a POA, and I told her I'm sorry but I'm not available this afternoon. She got angry and said "But your Yellow Pages Ad says 24/7!! That's false advertising!!" I wanted to say, "Well, ma'am, I'm sure you must know that I'm not going to cancel my plans for a $10 notarization gig! (No travel - just notarizing) The next time I renewed my Yellow Pages ad, I deleted the "24/7" part.

Reply by Kay/IL on 6/4/10 10:07pm
Msg #339887

I have been called to do closings at 9 pm and after (but never before 7 am) but I do not accept them. Only if things happened where docs were very late and I was committed were the only times I may have done a closing or two after 9:00 pm.

Now check this out: About 2-3 years ago, I was called to do a closing at a CTA (for those of you outside the Chicago area, Chicago Transit Authority) bus barn in a not that safe part of the city at 11 pm by a notorious low baller that I no longer contract with. They even told me that the borrower said it would be "safe" since he'll "meet me at the gate." I even asked whether they would up the price because of the time and of course they had to "get approval." I told them never mind and push on.

Just the nerve of them to ask a woman to go out to do a closing in that situation made me want reach inside the phone to slap some sense into them for even thinking about it!