Posted by garland/CA on 6/28/10 6:43pm
Msg #342849
ID question - input please
Got a notarization at a prison tomorrow morning. Called to verify name of inmate's ID. Turns out the middle name on ID is spelled differently from the docs (an "e" is missing on ID). Was told by the prison that is the way it is in the system and they can't change that. I don't know which is really correct since I can't verify with the inmate ahead of time. what are my options? not sure I can use credible witnesses.
|
Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/28/10 6:50pm
Msg #342851
Credible witnesses in prison?
Now that's humorous.
|
Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/28/10 6:54pm
Msg #342854
Re: Credible witnesses in prison?
Try getting credible witness for a guy who is at an ICE detention center awaiting deportation... most of the time, none of his family members/friends will do it because they also lack legal ID.
And at least once a month I have an "argument" with some idiot who insists that their Matrícula Consular is proper ID because "their bank takes it".
|
Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/28/10 6:51pm
Msg #342852
First -- what kind of institution is it? State, County, Fed, ICE?
Second -- who hired you to go out there? Can you call them and tell them that the name on the document doesn't match the ID?
I'd go with your hiring party and see if they can/will alter the docs. Maybe they made a typo?
|
Reply by garland/CA on 6/28/10 7:05pm
Msg #342858
Marian, it is a state prison. The hiring party said to notarize to match the ID. I just started wondering, which is correct - the ID or the way it is spelled on the documents? There is a difference of one vowel. If the ID is correct, I can notarize his signature even though it won't exactly match the document. But if the ID is wrong, I don't see how I can notarize his signature.
Even if we can alter the docs, what if the prison ID is incorrect? Still go with the ID and have him sign it that way?
|
Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/28/10 7:12pm
Msg #342863
Does he have the DOJ ID card? n/m
|
Reply by garland/CA on 6/28/10 7:24pm
Msg #342871
Re: Does he have the DOJ ID card?
I am not sure. I had the impression they were creating an ID for him for this purpose. The contact at the prison said something about "ordering his ID" last week when I spoke with her. I don't think he has a regular ID. I think it is an inmate ID card issued by CDC.
It would be easier if someone could ask him which is correct - and fix his ID if it isn't. But I can't speak to him beforehand, and no one else is concerning themself with it at the prison
I might be overthinking the whole thing, but I don't really want to go all the way down there and find out he says the name on his ID is not how he spells his middle name. Would have been so much easier if they had just used his middle initial!
The whole ID thing can be very frustrating, as the ID is our standard and what we have to match - but as we all know ID's can be incorrect!
Best case, the ID is correct and the docs are wrong. Then we can probably alter the docs.
Why doesn't someone just ask him???
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 7:43pm
Msg #342875
Re: Does he have the DOJ ID card?
Inmate services could help. If it's in CA...Go to Ca prisons there's a PDF file to download, nine pages info on all the prisons...find yours and call inmate services. Before I would go through all that though, I ask title to make up an AKA signature affidavit for me to have him sign.
|
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/28/10 7:49pm
Msg #342879
Re: Does he have the DOJ ID card?
A/K/A Signature Affidavit doesn't help with identification...not from a notary standpoint anyway
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 8:08pm
Msg #342891
Re: Does he have the DOJ ID card?
Here it does,..I give the problem to title and that's the way they solved it,...I've done it at least five times.
|
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/28/10 8:15pm
Msg #342895
James...are you saying you accept an A/K/A Affidavit as ID?? n/m
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 8:24pm
Msg #342899
Re: James...are you saying you accept an A/K/A Affidavit as ID??
<<<<<<<< I give the problem to title and that's the way they solved it,...I've done it at least five times. >>>>>>>
First of all they won't have their ID...A family member or atty will usually be involved and have it.....I accept, always accept the ID presented to me and record accordingly. If TC say accept it, I'm good to go. TC generates AKA and inmate signs.....I'm good to go.
|
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/28/10 8:27pm
Msg #342902
Okay..not going to hijack this thread any further...
it's not fair to the OP...but.....oh my
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 8:39pm
Msg #342906
O k hope about this lastly
A. The picture is the same but the names are different....?
B. The pictures are different but the names are the same...?
Which is the correct answer?
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 8:40pm
Msg #342907
Meant to say how about this lastly n/m
|
Reply by LKT/CA on 6/28/10 10:06pm
Msg #342924
Re: O k hope about this lastly
<<<A. The picture is the same but the names are different....?....B. The pictures are different but the names are the same...? Which is the correct answer?>>>
Usually the SSN or DOB decides what is for whom.
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 11:26pm
Msg #342930
Cal Dri Lic and Natralization papers same pict diff names n/m
|
Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/29/10 1:57am
Msg #342938
Re: Does he have the DOJ ID card?
I don't want to hijack this thread, either, but I didn't want to leave this statement "out there". I have to agree with Linda on this one, at least in general principle. Our responsibility to ID someone is ours alone and any document the tc or lender adds doesn't change - or help - any of that. However, once that's been satisfactorily done, what you describe is probably a good idea for the processing of the package. But I see those as two different issues.
Having said that, in this case where it's the spelling of a middle name... well, it would depend on the character of the error and how close it was as to whether or not I'd be concerned about it -- assuming the ID itself was acceptable. In the situation described, a typo is very likely. In a different setting, I'd probably ask to see some kind of corroborating ID for my own comfort level, but would consider this to be a gray area.
|
Reply by garland/CA on 6/28/10 7:57pm
Msg #342889
Re: Does he have the DOJ ID card?
Unfortunately the appointment is at 8 am tomorrow morning. It took 5 days to be approved to go there. At that time I told her the name I needed and spelled it, but people who aren't notaries don't really pay attention to those kinds of things. I was just calling this afternoon to verify that everything was good to go, and got this little surprise.
I'd love to have him sign with just his middle initial, but docs have his full name spelled out.
Hiring party suggested that. A notary can't really make that call. Receiving party would have to.
Might get the hiring party to talk to the receiving party in the morning - they are on the East Coast so that gives us a little time to see what we can do.
thanks, James, for your suggestion to look on the website for CA prisons. It's kind of late so I may not be able to call them anymore but I'll see. And tomorrow I have to be there bright and early.
I'd appreciate any other creative, legal options.
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 8:12pm
Msg #342892
quick if you have the PFN go to inmate locator and see how
they actually have his name spelled, the "listed address" you're almost there...IMO
|
Reply by garland/CA on 6/28/10 8:26pm
Msg #342901
Re: quick if you have the PFN go to inmate locator and see how
thanks James. I looked it up but they are closed now so I can't call. I think the way they have his name spelled is the way it is on the ID card because that was created from what is in their system.
I'll just trust the ID card is correct and make the trip there.
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 8:30pm
Msg #342905
Ok....BTW..PFN # is the ID, they won't have anything else. n/m
|
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/28/10 7:47pm
Msg #342878
Re: Does he have the DOJ ID card?
"I might be overthinking the whole thing, but I don't really want to go all the way down there and find out he says the name on his ID is not how he spells his middle name. Would have been so much easier if they had just used his middle initial! "
Why not put the ball back in your hiring party's court - tell them your dilemna and why you may have a problem notarizing...and also how this may be a fruitless trip *for them* because if the names don't match or he doesn't have adequate ID (which you already know he doesn't) you won't be able to notarize and you'll have made the trip and taken the time for nothing - and payment will STILL be required for your mileage and time. Ask them if he *has* to sign his full name...can he sign John Felonious Smith a/k/a John Felonius Smith....or John F. Smith which will solve all your problems if John F. Smith is named in the doc...
Just some thoughts...Good Luck..
|
Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/28/10 7:50pm
Msg #342880
Re: Does he have the DOJ ID card?
"John Felonius Smith"
Felonius? That is so funny 
|
Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/28/10 7:52pm
Msg #342885
Maybe he married that young woman down the street?
Miss D Meanor
|
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/28/10 7:53pm
Msg #342887
LOL Philip!!! n/m
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 8:15pm
Msg #342893
wHO? Dewey Chetum's sister? n/m
|
Reply by garland/CA on 6/28/10 8:16pm
Msg #342896
Final concensus - what would you do?
Seriously, everyone, what would you do?
Just show up and clarify - trusting the ID to be correct?
If ID is not,
1.see if they can get a new ID printed - quickly! (not likely with government beauracracy).
2.Or find two credible witnesses (guards?).
3.Or say, sorry, can't do it.
If ID is correct, just notarize signature matching ID. And breathe a sigh of relief.
Or not go at all?
|
Reply by Notarysigner on 6/28/10 8:19pm
Msg #342898
# four...... n/m
|
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/28/10 8:26pm
Msg #342900
Re: Final concensus - what would you do?
If you don't have proper ID in hand then you can't do it. They've taken a week to get his ID - you really think they're going to issue a new one on the spot? Are the guards allowed to be credible witnesses?
I, personally, think this is something the hiring party has to straighten out before you go - UNLESS they agree and are willing to pay you a decent fee for time and travel for something you know you won't be able to do anyway - and THEN pay you to go back AGAIN.
Shoot the hiring party an e-mail they can see first thing in the morning..marked URGENT... outline the issue - tell them you'll be postponing the appointment until they can straighten it out - come right out and tell them what you need to accomplish this signing and why it can't be done as it sits right now.
Then call the facility and start working on a reschedule..
That's what I'd do..
OOhhh...Good luck to you...
|
Reply by garland/CA on 6/28/10 9:09pm
Msg #342917
Re: Final concensus - what would you do?
thank you Linda. I'll do that.
|
Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/28/10 8:30pm
Msg #342904
CA prison guards must be nicer than WA ones.
The three times I have made the trip to the local pen. The prison guards didn't like even calling the folks to the cafeteria where we met, let alone want to vouch for anything about the guys. Also I hope you charge accordingly, with travel time, shakedown time, dog sniffing car time and general wait time, I won't go anymore, it is not worth it.
|
Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/28/10 8:58pm
Msg #342911
Re: Final concensus - what would you do?
First, look him on the state prison website... that should match the ID the prison has for him.
I'd print that and send it to the hiring party and tell them the problem.
|
Reply by garland/CA on 6/28/10 9:02pm
Msg #342914
Re: Final concensus - what would you do?
Marian, I only saw a phone number. Is there a page where I can input his P#?
|
Reply by LKT/CA on 6/28/10 9:04pm
Msg #342915
Re: Final concensus - what would you do?
I agree with LindaH/FL.....I'd put the ball back in the hiring party's court, leaving it up to them to ensure that the ID is usable in relation to the name on the paperwork. I'd require my travel fee up front and in cash before going into the facility to notarize for said inmate. That way you are paid for your travel and time if those involved can't get their act together.
|
Reply by CaliNotary on 6/29/10 1:33pm
Msg #342976
How would guards be credible witnesses?
Do you really think there are guards in there who could tell you his middle name off of the top of their heads? And if there are, is it because they've seen it in the prison system records, where it is misspelled, or is it because they have personal knowledge of it and its correct spelling?
Honestly, if it were me, I'd just let this one slide and do the notarization. After seeing how little (meaning not at all) the SOS cared when I called to find out what to do when I discovered that somebody had altered one of my notarizations after the fact, I've gotten a little less nitpicky than I used to be in the past. A missing vowel in a name that's otherwise the same is not something I'm gonna lose sleep over.
And technically, you really don't even have to worry about how the name is spelled on the docs, if you're that uncomfortable just notarize it the way it's spelled on the ID since that's who is appearing in front of you and we only notarize signatures, not documents. I'd be willing to bet that nobody even notices the missing vowel when the docs are being processed.
|
Reply by MW/VA on 6/29/10 8:35am
Msg #342949
Did I miss something here? She's asking about a slightly
different spelling of a middle name????
|
Reply by davidK/CA on 6/29/10 11:33am
Msg #342968
Re: Did I miss something here? She's asking about a slightly
CA requires positive identification and the deviation in spelling makes it "UN-positive".
Notaries Public aren't allowed to bend the rules for convenience in this state. In some other states it would be OK to accept a difference between the signature line and the ID being presented, but again in CA the NP has no discretion to equivocate between signing name and ID. Harsh? Yes, but good for everyone concerned that there is knowledge that the person signing was POSITIVELY identified.
Just my humble opinion.
|
