Posted by droman_IL on 6/22/10 6:19pm
Msg #341976

More Cut Fees from MDA Lending Solutions

Received this email today- UNFATHOMABLE! Now mind you, I don't get many calls from them because I don't work for their minimum fee of $50.00, but to receive this today means I most likely will not get any more calls from them since my base fee is WAY TOO HIGH FOR THEIR DEFAULT!!!

"As of June 17, 2010 we have to cut our notary default fees by $4.00 nationwide. This means your default fee will become $46.00. However, e-doc fees and travel compensation will not be affected, in any way. This means that for a standard signing with e-docs, you will receive the payment of $71.00. $46.00 (default fee) + $25.00 (standard e-doc fee) = $71.00. The way the market is and the lack of orders that we are receiving is contributing to this cut in fees. "

If you have any questions email or call me.


Thank you for you understanding,

MDA Lending Solutions
Vendor Management
5300 Brandywine Parkway, Suite 100
Wilmington, DE 19803

Reply by Heather/NH on 6/22/10 6:28pm
Msg #341979

I am so confused by all of these cuts. Refi applications are supposed to be at an all time high... Why on earth is it acceptable to cut notary fees? I honestly don't understand why "they" think this is acceptable. Are the property inspectors getting lower fees? What about the LO's?

Reply by taxpro on 6/22/10 10:17pm
Msg #342043

Just say NO!!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/10 6:43pm
Msg #341982

When they call me they come through as TransUnion - no wonder she's so surprised when I quote my fee...her reaction is usually "On my!"...LOL

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/22/10 6:47pm
Msg #341983

Oh, boohoo... "We have to cut..."

Good thing I don't have to accept. Good grief.

They said their "travel compensation" would not be affected. WHAT TRAVEL COMPENSATION? When they've called me, I could never get more than $75 out of them for jobs that were at least 20 miles away.

Reply by droman_IL on 6/22/10 6:49pm
Msg #341984

I replied "thanks for the update, but my fees are unchanged n/m

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/22/10 7:03pm
Msg #341991

If companies want to go this direction, they are going to have to either mail away the package to the borrower or have the borrower print the package themselves. The company can set up for the notary to come at a certain date/time and notarize the docs that require it. Then the borrowers finish signing the non-notarized docs on their own and take care of shipping the package back themselves. I just don't see any other way for this type of fee to work for loan signings. And $46 would barely (if even) cover a travel fee plus however many notarizations are in the package! This fee would only (maybe) work if the appt was next door!!!

Another way it might work is for the notary to print the package for an additional $25, bring the package to the borrowers at the specified appt time with a pre-printed shipping label and only do the notarized docs with the borrowers. The rest of the docs, the borrowers are on their own for signing and they ship the package back themselves. This is the only way I can think of to even entertain this low fee!!!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/10 7:04pm
Msg #341992

And the notary gets paid at the table... n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/22/10 7:18pm
Msg #341998

Geez... I've often made more than that for general notary work. Just showing up, notarizing a signature or a few for a person who brought the documents with them. Then leaving the notarized docs in their hands with payment in mine. Of course, that depends on your state's notary fees, but that's not much more than my base fee for general notary work.

Seriously, for that kind of money, it makes more sense for someone to get a part time job where they know what their schedule will be at least a week in advance, they don't have liability, and they're pretty sure they're going to get paid on a regularly scheduled basis. After all, for the amount of time involved, after expenses, it's probably about in the range of minimum wage.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/22/10 7:24pm
Msg #342002

We can only charge $5 per notarial act here in VA - for those of you that can charge $10 per signature, the fee offered from MDA is likely well below what you would charge for general notary work. For two signers in CA, you can charge $15 more per document than I can.

Reply by Leigh1978 on 6/22/10 7:16pm
Msg #341997

I understand that you do not want to do closings for that low of pay, but what if that is the only closings you get that week. I think you should take what you can get in this economy. What if you accept their fees and you start getting a bunch of closings from them and some joe blow down the street does not accept them and gets none.

Reply by droman_IL on 6/22/10 7:22pm
Msg #342000

Take what I can get???

It's just this type of thinking that has our fees in the toilet in the first place. I would never accept a closing for this fee. I've worked too hard to build my business and reputation over the years to value my services for so little. I would rather work at my local Walmart for $8.75 an hour. At least I would get health benefits and I would have no wear/tear on my car - I can walk to work!!!

Reply by Ruby on 6/22/10 7:37pm
Msg #342009

Re: Take what I can get???

I got the same email. With what they are offering we might as well work for free. I did reply
with a email of my own to be taken out of their data base. Also inform MDA of increase in my fees due to gas, etc. Makes wall-mart look good.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 7:50pm
Msg #342015

Re: Take what I can get???

<< What if you accept their fees and you start getting a bunch of closings from them and some joe blow down the street does not accept them and gets none. >>

Just think about what you're saying. I don't think that philosophy in life will get you very far, but then again if you're trying to make it work for you, good luck.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/22/10 7:22pm
Msg #342001

I don't agree.

See my other post. I do think that if it gets to that point, you should find a job. Even in this market, there are openings flipping burgers or doing something in retail, simple office work, etc. I still see help wanted signs from time to time. They aren't jobs I would be interested in, but I'd do that before I would do a whole signing for $46 (or anywhere close to that)! BTW, I'm not at all trying to be sarcastic. I mean this very sincerely.

Reply by desktopfull on 6/22/10 7:31pm
Msg #342003

What difference does it make if you get 20 a week if you can't even break even on expenses? Sorry, but I'm not in business to work for free.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/22/10 7:31pm
Msg #342004

Even if I got 10 a week a that price...

I'd still be working for free. No amount of "bulk" work can make of for it.

Reply by Shirley Koch on 6/22/10 7:39pm
Msg #342012

Re: Even if I got 10 a week a that price...

I agree! We need to stick together and not lower our fees! I would bet that the no one else in the chain is lowering their fees! My home keeps dropping in value along with others in my neighborhood because of all the short sales, forclosures, and low prices. I'm not willing to let that happen to our industry too! If we start taking lower fees, we'll ruin our industry just like the housing market has been ruined!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/22/10 8:01pm
Msg #342018

It has nothing to do with "sticking together" but good

ole fashioned simple business education. This is Business 101... anyone who is serious about running their own business will know right away that these are not fees that will work for the vast majority (there are a few rare exceptions) is they want to actually stay in business.

If people want to take those fees... that's fine by me. I just take heart in knowing that in a few months the light bulb will go off -- if they haven't already given up.

Too many people jump in to this business without knowing how to run a business. If you can't do that, you will NOT be successful.

Reply by Frank/NC on 6/22/10 8:19pm
Msg #342030

Re: Even if I got 10 a week a that price...

The fact is that the more you get at that price the more money you lose. All you expenses keep adding up and the end result is that there is no profit for you. We are professional and places like MDF are not.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/10 7:33pm
Msg #342005

Leigh...IMO you need to rethink your business philosophy n/m

Reply by LisaWI on 6/22/10 7:34pm
Msg #342006

Re: Leigh.....

At this fee, you are doing the signing for free almost. Think about your expenses out of pocket, paper, toner, gas, wear and tear on vehicle, and other small items needed for a closing then deduct your taxes. 45 minutes for the closing, an hour of travel, yep...... almost working for free. Why bother starting the car?? Its an insult to our profession to even offer these kind of fees.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/22/10 7:38pm
Msg #342010

It's not just expenses....

After all the expenses, you still have to consider your profit margin - what you can live off of. Why even be in business without it?

The $71 would probably cover expenses... but it sure wouldn't cover all of the notary fees.... and wouldn't come close to providing for my minimum profit margin.

Reply by desktopfull on 6/22/10 7:38pm
Msg #342011

Maybe she's just looking at cash-flow and not taking into

consideration the rest of what you mentioned.

Reply by droman_IL on 6/22/10 7:51pm
Msg #342016

Re: Maybe she's just looking at cash-flow and not taking into

What cash flow?? $46 doesn't even fill my gas tank!!

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/22/10 7:36pm
Msg #342008

You have to make a profit in order for this business to be worthwhile. Why take on all the liability involved with loan signings if you are working for minimum wage or less? Don't forget to factor in all the expenses and taxes we have - that $46 is not pure profit!

Reply by RJE/MI on 6/22/10 8:09pm
Msg #342024

I don't understand who would work for such low fees. Eventually even the low fee notary will get sick of working so hard and having very little to show for it. I have not heard of any low fee notary bragging about all the business they have and all the $ they make. So how are they getting away with it? I don't even hesitate to turn down a job if they won't meet my minimum.

Someone who finds these fees acceptable and profitable as far as $ and large signing counts please explain to me. what I'm missing?

Reply by taxpro on 6/22/10 10:38pm
Msg #342048

Then find something else to do!!!! Heck, if you accept their lowball fees, you might as well work in fast food or retail. If you accept those low fees, they'll never offer any more! (But they're still charging the borrowers the same amount!) If you worked for someone else, you'd have less stress, and you don't have to spend your own money up front, not to mention stressing over getting paid or not. If you're going to run a business like a pro, charge what you are worth!

Why work for less than it costs you to do the job, considering paper, internet, phone, toner, mileage and time? By the time you add it all up, you might be making less than minimum wage!! Your time involved is way more than the signing. You've got to consider the time involved in scheduling, printing, driving to the appointment, notarizing, checking everything again, faxing back if applicable, getting the package ready to ship, driving to UPS or wherever, etc. A signing that takes an hour can easily take 2.5 hours in total. Subtract your mileage at 50 cents a mile each way. Then subtract an amortized amount for your computer, internet service, advertising on NotRot, XXX, and the numbers site, not to mention the phone book and internet ads. Also subtract your notary commission bond, the E&O insurance, the stamp, your office rent, etc etc etc. Don't sell yourself short by saying, "Well, I'm still making $20 an hour! That's not too bad!" Well, actually, that is terrible because you're probably not taking everything else into account. On top of that you have SE taxes! OK, not for actual notary fees, but for everything else. You also have to pay for your own health insurance and benefits. Wake up people, you are supposed to be self-employed professionals!

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/23/10 12:10am
Msg #342056

Leigh1978

<<<I think you should take what you can get in this economy. What if you accept their fees and you start getting a bunch of closings from them and some joe blow down the street does not accept them and gets none.>>>

Joe blow down the street is quite wise to turn down $46 - $71 signings. He realizes that those fees only actually net him $5.11 - $7.88 per hour because he understands what costs are involved in running his business. Joe blow down the street just shakes his head at the clueless Notary who is *paying* to complete signings at $46 a pop and he feels quite sorry and embarrassed for the Notary that accepts them. Actually, he thinks said clueless Notary is an idiotic for accepting $46 signings.....but that's just Joe and his little old opinion.

Reply by cadmonkey/CA on 6/23/10 12:29am
Msg #342060

Lisa is right, we all need to stick to our guns...

even if it hurts!

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/23/10 6:58am
Msg #342074

Leigh, yes! Take what you can get!

That way, in a few months you'll be out of business and Joe Blow can get the fees from that company that he can operate a business on.

You can't operate a business taking what you can get.

Not to be harsh, but it is the truth.

Reply by Sandra Clark on 6/23/10 11:17am
Msg #342117

Re: Leigh, yes! Take what you can get!

If that's all you think you're worth - have at it! Take them all, then the Notary that is worth their salt will continue to get his/hers fee of $XXX. I've got the same situation where I am, Notaries accepting $60-$70. fees but while they may be booked, I still get my fees - they're working twice as hard, making less profit than I am. More power to them. I believe in working smarter not harder to make a decent profit. With a side note, I do a lot of re-signs for those $60-$70 Notaries.

Reply by ikando on 6/23/10 2:40pm
Msg #342153

Re: Leigh, yes! Take what you can get!

Others here have made comments similar to those on the forums for my other business. You MUST calculate not only for the costs of the job at hand, but also to cover those times when you're marketing or whatever is not taking care of an actual signing.

And what if you want to take a vacation or retire? Have you considered where the money for those will come from?

As several have said, it's YOUR business. Decide what you're worth and don't sell yourself short. In the end, "something" is really not anything.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/23/10 6:03pm
Msg #342221

Basic economics

"I understand that you do not want to do closings for that low of pay, but what if that is the only closings you get that week. I think you should take what you can get in this economy. What if you accept their fees and you start getting a bunch of closings from them and some joe blow down the street does not accept them and gets none. "

"Take what you can get" is fine, as long as you are able to make a profit by doing so. Here are 3 basic economic facts related to any business:

#1 - It is impossible to make a profit if what you're being paid is less than what it costs you to provide the service. This is as fundamental and immutable a concept as the law of gravity.

#2 - The fact that you're getting work does not mean that you're making money. You need a full understanding of what your costs are (including your time), and then you should refer back to #1 above.

#3 - More volume doesn't necessarily mean more profit. This is a business where almost all of the costs are fixed - they don't change from one job to the next. If you accept a job that costs you $10 more than what you're paid, accepting 50 of them at that rate means you're losing $500. See #2 above...

It's very nice to say "Look at all this work I'm getting", but the point of being in business is not how busy you are and how much money is rolling in, it's how much of a profit you're making.