Posted by Marian_in_CA on 6/30/10 1:20pm
Msg #343171

Now here's an interesting notarization...

I love it when notarized documents make the "news" -- because there's usually something a bit amiss with them.

For reference, see:

http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0630_jesse_sandra_TMZ_wm.pdf


This is the divorce decree between Sandra Bullock and Jesse James. The one I'm talking about is the one done by the CA notary on the last page of the document.

Now, as background, the papers were filed using their initials, backwards.

I don't know about Louisiana, but in California we don't have IDs that have our initials, backwards. And I wouldn't ever actually allow put that in one of my certificates.

Is it any surprise that "M Carillo" got his/her seal from the NNA?

Am I off on this one? I don't care how the guy is identified in the paperwork itself, I highly doubt his ID says "JJG" on it. Not that I wouldn't be "satisfied" that that is who he is, of course... but the name on the notarial cert should match the ID/signature.

Reply by aurelio/FL on 6/30/10 1:25pm
Msg #343172

I think it's absurd that the courts allowed that

...especially because TMZ figured out immediately whose divorce papers they were.

I wouldn't have notarized it that way. Whether it's allowed or not is a question for an attorney.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/30/10 1:25pm
Msg #343173

To add to that...

I'm really referring to the fact that the initials are actually mixed up. Sandra Bullock's were backwards. Jesse Jame's were not quite backwards. His name is "Jesse Gregory James" - JGJ not JJG as in the certificate.

Either way... how would you handle this? I don't think I'd be cool with using just initials... but if I did, they would match the ID.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/30/10 2:25pm
Msg #343183

Re: To add to that...

I wouldn't do it because of the "Satisfactory evidence clause " stating absence of any info, evidence which would lead a reasonable person to believe that the
individual is not the individual he or she claims to be."

reversed initials? I don't think so; personally known? I don't think so. Maybe they had name (initial change documentation),...naw. No can do.

Satisfactory Evidence – “Satisfactory Evidence” means the absence of any information,
evidence, or other circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to believe that the
individual is not the individual he or she claims to be and (A) paper identification documents
or (B) the oath of a single credible witness or (C) the oaths of two credible witnesses under
penalty of perjury, as specified below:

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/30/10 2:46pm
Msg #343191

Re: To add to that...

I know...weird isn't it?

The whole thing just baffles me...

But as I said before, EVERY single time I see a wonky thing like this, without fail, the notary's seal came from NNA01 -- meaning they got it from the NNA.

Reply by bagger on 6/30/10 2:47pm
Msg #343192

Re: To add to that...

It just shows to go ya what those overpaid, pampered celebs can get away with.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 6/30/10 2:56pm
Msg #343193

Re: Now here's an interesting notarization/The way I see it

It is the responsibility of the Notary to be sure notarial wording is correct.

Jesse James signed the document as Jesse James; in the notarial wording he is referred to as JJG.
The Notary Public should have corrected the notarial wording to reflect the person before her/him signing the document - Jesse James, then it would be a valid notarization.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/30/10 3:04pm
Msg #343195

That's exactly my point...

Why that notary let his/her certificate go through with those initials makes no sense to me.


That's why I brought this up... it seems that every time I see something like this, there's always a notarial error.


Like this one back in March: Msg #329483

Bonehead mistakes. NNA seal.

Reply by GY_CT on 6/30/10 2:57pm
Msg #343194


It's not the notarization where the trouble begins, it's the doc itself. How a legal document can be drafted which id's the signers only by jumbled initials is beyond me. Had to be more to the ID process than these docs indicate. And I cringe trying to get signature-minimizing signers to sign "just as it's printed beneath the line" over their protest, "But that's my legal signature!"

The Texas doc was notarized in Louisiana --N.B. how the notary didn't initial his State/County corrections.

Boy, these notaries wouldn't make it a single day as Professional Signing Agents! Errors on every page!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 6/30/10 3:14pm
Msg #343198

Yes, GY-CT, a TC/Lender would have these docs

back in our laps in a nanosecond - about the same speed that "B.A.S." dumped "JJG" when his rompings with the tattooed biker chick became known. None of this anguish and carrying on that Elizabeth Edwards and the wife of that governor who disappeared off to South America to be with his "soulmate" went through. They both dithered around a long time before dumping their butthead husbands. In any case, "JJG" had been previously married to yet another tattooed porn star, so it's not like America's sweetheat, "B.A.S.," didn't know the merchandise she was getting. But I digress....

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/30/10 4:22pm
Msg #343221

*N.B. how the notary didn't initial his State/County corrections.*

I always do, but it's really not necessary.

Reply by Mia on 6/30/10 3:36pm
Msg #343204

Could it be

Could it be that Sandra goes by her middle name?
Because if you do the initials "BAS" it would be Bullock, A Sandra
and for "JJG" it would be James, Jesse G.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/30/10 3:45pm
Msg #343208

Re: Could it be

Her name is Sandra Annette Bullock

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/30/10 3:47pm
Msg #343209

Re: Could it be

Doesn't matter, Mia...the initials don't belong in the notary cert...should be full names as ID'd and signed.

Reply by Mia on 6/30/10 4:11pm
Msg #343215

Re: Could it be

The rich & famous can get away with almost anything.
I'm sure that if this was looked into, someone would probably
say it was done to protect their privacy.
Well, who are we to say that the initials don't belong... the courts
have allowed it.
I'm not saying that it is proper procedure.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/30/10 4:19pm
Msg #343217

Re: Could it be

The court paperwork (the documents) are one thing... the notarization of the signature and the notarial certificate is another.

It doesn't matter what the courts allowed as far as the initials go. That's their thing.

In CA, that notarial cert is messed up.

However.... since it was filed out of state, the wording does not have to be to CA standards. Even with that concession, though, it's still not right.

I mean, if I went to any sane CA notary who knew what they were doing, they wouldn't put 'HME' in the notarial certificate to refer to me.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/30/10 4:52pm
Msg #343239

Maybe they had ID's issued by the state/court

that had just their initials on it, to try to keep this from getting out? As celeb's there seems to be untold numbers of strings that can be pulled.

Reply by Mia on 6/30/10 5:24pm
Msg #343254

Re: Could it be

In reading the document, it states their initials within the document.
I do not know how they did it with initials -- maybe you should just call
the Attorney's that were involved in this legal matter and find out.

The divorce is finalized, and we as Notaries can not act like Judge or
Attorney.

Like I stated previously, it is not a normal (proper) procedure as we are
used to. When I become rich and famous like Sandra Bullock, I'll see how
I can change the system. ;-)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/30/10 5:28pm
Msg #343257

And you'll let us know, right Mia???...:) n/m

Reply by Mia on 6/30/10 5:33pm
Msg #343264

When I become rich like Sandra.. I'll let you know, ROFL n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/30/10 6:26pm
Msg #343276

But like I said... it has NOTHING to do with the document...

The signature and notarial certificate are distinct from the document.

It's like I was talking about the other day... if the document says, "John Doe" but the ID of the person signing says "Jane Doe" -- I don't give a flip about the "John Doe" -- I only care that the person signing has a signature that matches the ID they're giving me. And, in my notarial certificate, that's the name I use "Jane Doe" -- not a name mentioned in the document.

Does that make sense?

And, as someone who lives in Southern California and has notarized documents for quite a few well known people... they can't pull strings to get IDs changed like that. They sign legal papers with their legal signatures.