Posted by GOLDGIRL/CA on 6/25/10 1:40am
Msg #342444

Pit bull dilemma

Hardly a month goes by in CA that there isn't news about some pit bull killing somebody. This doesnt even count the people they just mangle. So imagine how I felt walking into borrowers' house today with two pitbulls in the living room. The owner said something like: I hope you're OK with dogs. Yeah, I'm OK with dogs as long as they don't chew me up. They put one dog in another room, but the other dog never took his eyes off me. I would describe him as very alert. I would describe myself as hysterical. I kept looking around for a place I could "escape" if the dog went berserk. As far as I'm concerned owners of these kinds of dogs are in denial. I don't want to hear what cuddly little hushpuppies they are. I know how all you pistol-packin' notaries would handle this .... but don't you think it's completely irresponsible for owners of these type dogs (German shepherds/dobermans, too) to let strangers in their house and not put the dog away during the signing? And equally appropriate for me to get back in my car and say reschedule with a braver notary or somewhere else that the dog isn't??? Quite frankly I can't imagine even the most idiotic SS objecting to this .... (of course, you never know).

Reply by MW/VA on 6/25/10 6:54am
Msg #342453

It isn't inappropriate to let the borrowers know that the dogs make you nervous, which is a distraction, and ask them to confine them while you are there. I'm an animal lover, always tell the borrowers I'm fine unless the dog isn't friendly. Cats is a whole other story.

Reply by Frank/NC on 6/25/10 7:58am
Msg #342459

I think it is totally appropriate to ask the owners to put both dogs away before going on with anything. We aren't talking about cuddly little dogs. No matter what the owners think, or would like to think, these dogs can turn on you or them at any time. At worst the TC or SS isn't happy with you if you leave but pit bulls worry me and I think I would have left if they refused to put them away.

Reply by bagger on 6/25/10 8:36am
Msg #342469

Re: Cats is a whole other story

Really?
Have you ever done a closing where puss in boots kept walking across your docs?
It is very distracting.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/25/10 8:38am
Msg #342470

Re: Cats is a whole other story

I love cats - I have four - but I don't let them onto the table or the kitchen counters. It always boggles my mind when people allow their cats onto their eating surfaces. But yes, I've had cats walk on my docs at borrower's homes!

Reply by MW/VA on 6/25/10 10:05am
Msg #342488

Re: Cats is a whole other story

That's what I was referring to in "whole other story"--and should have said "are a whole other story". Issues like on the table, rubbing on your leg, and not to mention the "knock you over" smell in some homes I've been in.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 6/25/10 6:58am
Msg #342455

You should have responded that you were terrified and needed the dogs put away. Your helping them out don't put yourself at risk.

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/25/10 7:05am
Msg #342457

Critters can sense fear and that puts them on alert--don't make a wrong move! By all means, tell people you'd feel more comfortable if they'd put them somewhere else. That's a better solution than calling hiring entity and refusing to complete the signing.

Reply by Joan_OH on 6/25/10 7:03am
Msg #342456

I have NEVER had a problem with any dog and at signing. I always said let the yapping animal out. They'll fall asleep at my feet in 10 minutes. However, I recently changed my mind for 2 reasons.

Last month, my brother, an animal lover, walked into a closing with a Golden Retriever. Borrower offered to put the dog away and my brother said it wasn't necessary. After greeting the dog, he turned to walk to the table and the dog bit his calf - hard to believe with a golden retriever.

Shortly after, we had an incident a few miles from me. 30 year old man that lived with his grandfather came home to their 7 mixed breed large dogs and they killed him. Seriously, they tore him to shreds and Grandfather came home to find him next to his car in the driveway. This is a man that KNEW these dogs and nothing like this had ever happened before. One must have snapped and the pack mentality kicked in. The roads were all shut down and the sheriffs hunted down the dogs and put them down before they hurt anyone else.

So, going forward, even as a dog lover, I will always take the borrower offer to put the dog away while I am there.

Joan

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/25/10 7:38am
Msg #342458

yes yes yes...TOTALLY AGREE w/you Goldgirl/CA...

I'd gladly turn around, leave and give up my good paying fee, if the BO do not put those dangerous dogs away in another locked room! It's just not worth me potentially getting 'mangled', even if the chances are 'low' that this may happen, according to some owners, but what does anyone know.

I love dogs, but THOSE dogs should be on leashes at the very least, if not put in another room, when 'strangers' come over, period!

Some of the closings I've done in which the borrowers had these types of dogs, had the common courtesy to ask if I was allergic to dogs, and of course I'd always say yes, even though I'm not.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/25/10 8:05am
Msg #342460

I agree with everyone else....dogs / cats must be put away. They a fall asleep in another room just as well. If borrower has safety concerns with notary, there's plenty of Starbucks. I know out "friend" would support your choice!

Reply by CF on 6/25/10 8:20am
Msg #342463

Yes, it is total BS that borrowers to not willingly put away their animals. You have every right to say that they be contained. If the borrowers are crappy about it...then suggest McDonald's up the street...see ya in 10 minutes. If they say NO- then leave. We are running our own business...there is no one that is going to take responsibility for us getting bit and attacked by an animal. Just say no and leave. Too bad for what a SS or a TC thinks...they are not in the field.

Last year was at closing with 2 cocker spaniels (known to be mean- according to the borrowers- after the fact)...they were going crazy and would not settle down. We made our way to the table and the 2 dogs got under the table and started growling and one made a motion to bite me while I was pulling out the chair. Luckily, I blocked it with the chair and the owner grabbed it. I was really mad, at that point, and said we have 2 choices I can leave or you can get control of your animals and put them away. That was when they tell me that they have been mean before. They put them away....and we proceeded with the signing. While I was leaving....I told them point blank that if their dog would have bit me I would have sued them against their home owners....and they need to know that and put their animals away when someone comes over.

If there is more than one dog....they must be put away. I like animals....but there are a lot of people that have out of control or unpredictable animals. I just cant imagine living with a pet that could harm a person. It is ridiculous!!! Also, you just never know. A long time ago there was a friendly, medium sized mutt, that was real nice and then nipped me. So I tend to let them smell me and then I ignore them.....I am not there to make nice with their pets!!

Reply by loancloser46 on 6/25/10 8:11am
Msg #342461

Re: Pit bull dilemma.. I was bitten by one at a closing!!!!!

Three years ago I was bitten by a pit bull at a closing. Luckily I had on pretty thick wool slacks. I still have 5 scars where the teeth sunk into my thigh. What did the borrower do you ask??????
She said " Wow, he never done that before"

There was no offer to get bactine, hydogen peroxide or bandages. I sat there and had her sign while I held a small package of kleenex that I had against my leg. She became highly offended when I asked to see proof that the dog had it vaccinations up to date.
Of course there was no offer to replace my ruined slacks either.
I refuse to enter any home or yard where there are pit bulls.

Reply by CF on 6/25/10 8:25am
Msg #342465

laoncloser46- I can not believe that you did not file

a law suit? I am not talking about trying to sue for 1 million dollars or anything like that...but pretty sure you would have gotten the small claims max or go after their home owners. That is unreal!!!!!

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/25/10 8:27am
Msg #342466

I hope you sent her the doctor's bill! n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 6/25/10 1:27pm
Msg #342528

When I pull up to the client's address,

I scope out the house and yard, and if I see any evidence of a dog, even the yip, yap kind, I call and ask the client to remove the dogs from the area. I just explain, in a very customer oriented manner that I have been attacked before probably because the strange dog smelled my dog on me and I find it simpler if I make the request before there is an incident.

Early in my mobile notary career, I was attacked by a pit bull. I was naive enough to think that after all the dogs I have owned that I could sweet talk any dog. The dog was nice as can be until the owner let me in the gate and I was half way to the door. Fortunately for me, I was wearing my boots and was able to subdue the dog without injury to me, even though I had to fight the owner as well as the dog. I immediately called the police and animal control. Came to find out this wasn't the first time and the dog tried to bite someone was taken away. Needless to say, the signing was canceled as the owner thought I had no right to call the cops on her sweet little 120 pound dogie.

Reply by ikando on 6/25/10 2:36pm
Msg #342539

Re: Pit bull dilemma.. I was bitten by one at a closing!!!!!

And you stayed to complete the signing? I would have been too traumatized.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 6/25/10 8:38am
Msg #342471

For me, I am not as afraid of the bite as I am of one of these exuberant dogs knocking me over. I had both my knees replaced two years ago. It is painful for me to get on my knees to try to pull myself up. Not to mention the embarrassment!

Reply by janCA on 6/25/10 9:12am
Msg #342474

In defense of dogs..

they are only as smart and disciplined as the owners want them to be and you can see by these posts, that most owners are not realists when it comes to their animals, especially dogs. ANY dog will turn on you, it doesn't matter what the breed is. If they are raised to protect, which, most pit bulls, not all, are raised to do. They are an intimidating dog but I rescued one from a busy street a couple of years ago. It was dodging cars so I stopped right at the light, and at the time I thought this is nuts, but I couldn't stand the thought of it getting hit, anyway, I coaxed it into my car, driver's side floor, okay, wrong move, I picked it up, it had bites all over it's body,bleeding, again thinking it was just going to bite the holy crap out of me, I got it into my back seat, and it just coward down, shaking, and looked at me, like, oh thank you. I couldn't bring it home because I had a dog at the time that was not good around other dogs, it would further be traumatized. I ended up taking it to the SPCA. Whether or not it was euthenized (sp), I don't know. My point is, these people that think their dog is incapable of nipping or biting because it hasn't before, are kidding themselves. And dogs do sense if you are fearful of them. The borrowers need to put their animals away before the notary arrives, but most wait until you are there before deciding what they're going to do. I've never understood that.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 6/25/10 9:32am
Msg #342478

I am with you Shoshana

Of the thousands of signings I have done and an equal amount of dogs at these signings I have never been bitten or attacked but what I am really fearful of is falling. At almost 70 I am not as steady on my feet as I used to be and am always afraid that a little dog is going to get wrapped up in my feet. I love dogs but openly voice my fear and if they offer to take dogs out of the room I say yes and if not I walk very very slowly.

For those of you have been bitten, I am so sorry. I can't imagine too many things more frightening than that! And that would be the end of the signing and the beginning of a lawsuit!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/25/10 9:58am
Msg #342485

Re: In defense of dogs..

Looks like when calling to make an appointment the borrower needs to be asked if there are dogs in the home, and if there are could they please have them in a separate room.

I have posted this several times, but one of my favourite appointments, the borrower came to the door accompanied by the most beautiful white dog I had ever seen. During the signing the dog stayed by my feet, very docile - every now and then through the signing I would hand her a treat (always carried dog treats). Then another dog came into the room, so I handed that one a treat too, which it took. Both lovely docile dogs. But the borrower was amazed that the second dog had accepted a treat from me as it was wary of strangers. I said I loved dogs, I had an affinity with them, and obviously this second dog knew it.
But, the borrower said, "these aren't dogs, they are pure bred wolves" Probably if I had known in advance that the borrower had wolves (he actually had 4) I would probably have insisted he have them shut up in another room or in the yard.

This was about 10 years ago now, and the borrower owns a pack n ship place but has no notary there. So since then, every time a customer goes into the store looking for a notary he sends them to me. I get a lot of business from that little store.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/25/10 10:00am
Msg #342487

OMG Sylvia, holy cow! n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/25/10 10:41am
Msg #342492

Re: OMG Sylvia, holy cow!

About a week after that closing I had another one. We were getting the papers signed when we heard "howls" - sounded like a jungle. Borrower told me that the guy who owned Thunderhawk Big Cat Rescue lived a few doors away and he sometimes had some of the big cats at the house! (he had tigers, lions and cougars, he used to take the tigers and cougars - in cages - to flea markets and I even saw them in a Sams club on display at one time - to raise funds.
Ray Thunderhawk no longer has charge of the animals, Thunderhawk Enterprises became Central Florida Animal Reserve, and he was removed from the board.

Reply by LynnNC on 6/25/10 1:25pm
Msg #342526

Our SPCA rescues Pit Bulls...

...and as long as they have a good dispositon, they place them for adoption...they call them "Am Staff mixes". Pit Bulls were originally bred to be family dogs.

The dog you found "just coward down, shaking, and looked at (you)" and might likely be gentle. I hope the SPCA you took the dog to nursed him back to health after they tested his disposition and found a good home for him.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/25/10 1:56pm
Msg #342531

Re: Our SPCA rescues Pit Bulls...

Lynn
here is a history of the pit bulls - hardly a family dog.

http://www.pitbull411.com/history.html

Reply by Art_PA on 6/25/10 9:42am
Msg #342481

When people ask me if I like dogs, I reply: "It depends upon how you cook them"

Don't be afraid to state that it is best if (pick as many as necessary): dogs, children, cats, don't help.

I don't mind if a cat sleeps or takes a bath in my open briefcase which is on the floor.

Reply by rengel/CA on 6/25/10 10:56am
Msg #342493

I totally understand your fears, but

I am the complete opposite. I love dogs and am usually petting them and/or letting them sit on my lap during the signing (the smaller ones).

I wish I'd be able to ask that they get someone to watch the children during the signing. I've had to deal with mom cooking/feeding the kids, tending to scraped knees, having to stop and get gum, toothpaste and cat poop out of hair (different occasions), "mom, mom, mom,"... "what?"... "hi".

It's never a dull moment with our jobs, is it?

My .02

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/25/10 11:38am
Msg #342500

Re: I totally understand your fears, but

true, we should ask the bwr to set aside time to complete the job without interruption. When I tell them it will take about 45 mins they always say, Ooh, we'll do it quicker than that. One hour later......

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 6/25/10 11:13am
Msg #342494

Always carry dog treats...

... in my car & in my coat pocket when I go into a signing. If there is a dog in the house, or at the door, it always helps to melt the ice, both with the dog & the owner.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/25/10 1:02pm
Msg #342520

Re: Always carry dog treats...

and if the dog jumps and bites your hand with the treat, then what do you do? could be blamed for provoking the animal...I dunno about carrying dog treats...

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/25/10 11:44am
Msg #342503

I would not even have unpacked my case and would have asked borrowers to please put 2nd pit bull (aka vicious beast) away. I don't care if it's "their" home. If they refused, I would have TOLD them the signing will only happen here if the dog is put away, otherwise we'll sign at McDonalds - their choice. I'm not risking "my" life just because it's "their" home.

Hell would freeze over before I'd ever keep quiet and put my life in danger just because it's "their" home. So what if the signing doesn't happen....so what if the SS/TC never uses me again.....it only matters that I continue to have all of my body parts - undamaged and in working order.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 6/25/10 12:23pm
Msg #342511

Then there is the droolers

I got slimed Wednesday by a dog that was the merriest mix of breeds I ever saw. His jowls were like a St Bernards. He really liked me to put it nicely. I had to come home and shower and change clothes.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/25/10 1:58pm
Msg #342532

Re: Then there is the droolers - Grammar police alert

"is the droolers"? Zana, Zana, Zana. I can't believe you posted that

Then there are the droolers

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/25/10 6:33pm
Msg #342567

She's been reading too many of mine, lately. Tsk, tsk on me. n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 6/25/10 12:31pm
Msg #342513

Thanks, everybody!

Another lesson learned. I guess the reason I sat there like dummy while the pitbull had me locked in his radar is because I was also in denial - thinking that this "little hushpuppy" (that's what the owner called him) was really as sweet as coconut cream pie and just as harmless - while I could see with my own eyes that this dog had more muscles than Arnold Schwarzenegger. The problem is we're always talking about how we have to put up with (fill in the blank) because we're in the borrower's home and we can't tell them what/what not to do in their own home, blah blah blah. But sitting in the same room with this type of dog is obviously a different story and I'm going to have to work on a very polite but firm line to give them in the future.

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/25/10 12:57pm
Msg #342518

Re: Thanks, everybody!

Yes......sweet, polite, firm, and diplomatic when speaking with borrowers. Never, ever risk life or limb for anyone else's "anything" - even when the borrowers insist that their <fill in the blank> is as harmless as a cotton ball.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/25/10 4:18pm
Msg #342551

Re: Thanks, everybody!

ALways go by you gut feelings, never doubt them, never give in.

Reply by LynnNC on 6/25/10 1:19pm
Msg #342523

There are some Pit Bulls that can be a problem, but others are very docile and loving. We fostered one for a year that loved other dogs, cats, and people. He slept on my bed with his head on me and wanted to be as close as possible.

I usually tell people with yappy dogs to let them out. The sniff me and jump on, me then settle down. Last week though, I had a Lab jump on me to greet me and I have bruises and scratches on my arm.

Reply by ikando on 6/25/10 2:45pm
Msg #342540

Although the insurance companies charge a premium for households with shepherds, rottweilers, dobermans, and other big dogs, it's been my experience that small dogs like chihuahuas and cocker spaniels are the nippers/biters. I've had more negative experience from the cute, little guys than the big dogs. And I own a pomeranian, a chihuahua and a lhasa apso!

Reply by Sandra Clark on 6/25/10 4:42pm
Msg #342557

Read the post earlier and then had a chance to use the wisdom on a closing today. Arrived at the home, lovely lady anwsers along with her 3 dogs. 2 King Charles spaniels and a big, ugly mixed pooch who just sat & stared at me. As we are heading into her kitchen she says are you afraid of dogs? I asked her should I be? Oh they don't bite she says at which time I said I've heard that before. As we're sitting down I said to her I'm sure your homeowners insurance is paid up and that you carry additional insurance for dog bites. Her reply was, well I've never thought of carrying extra insurance to cover the dogs and no one has ever asked. With that she removed the dogs from the room and we proceeded - very nice lady and the signing was a breeze.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/25/10 5:27pm
Msg #342561

Pit bulls aren't vicious by nature, but if it bothered you it would have been perfectly reasonable for you to ask the owners to put both dogs away. Dogs do sense fear, so that is probably why the one left in the room was watching you so intently.

Sometimes pet owners don't realize that other people might not be too thrilled around their pets. I used to work with a guy who would bring his pet snake to the office every so often...

Reply by Speedy Signing Service - Speedy Signing Service on 6/26/10 4:15am
Msg #342593

Hello,
I did a signing and saw a pit bull from the window! I rang the bell and when the borrower opened I immediately said you must put your dog away before I enter. Never a problem because I establish this before I enter the home. You must be VERY FIRM because they will try and blow you off! Stand your ground! You are there to provide a very important service and they NEED YOU! You should not feel uncomfortable during the signing.


Thanks,
Michelle

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/26/10 7:09am
Msg #342598

I'm scratching my head at the posters who pull out the lawsuit card as soon as they enter the borrower's home. I see NOTHING wrong with asking, or even politely insisting, that they put their dog away. I also feel we are well within our rights to abort the signing as a last resort if we feel we are in a dangerous situation and the borrower refuses to put the dog away.

But if someone came in to my home and immediately mentioned possibly filing a lawsuit against my homeowners insurance, that would put a really bad taste in my mouth and I'm not sure that person would be welcome to conduct business with me anymore. Who needs a complaint to the TC that the notary threatened to sue their borrower???

I personally would figure out a more tactful way to get my point across.