Posted by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 9:01am
Msg #341814

Real Estate backlash

Interesting signing last nite. Real estate agent present at signing chided me. She informed me that there was no sane reason for me to be doing the signing instead of her.

She look at my journal and saw my fee and added, "at least if I did it I would received the whole fee." I politely told her then you must be a expert at this? To which she replied, "I am." So I told her to look at the package and see if she could find any errors. LOL When was finished, she said there were none. I said, "then now you know why you're not doing it." She didn't get it! ROTFLMAO

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/10 9:12am
Msg #341819

Why did she look at your journal? n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 10:04am
Msg #341830

Re: Why did she look at your journal?

She was looking as I entered ID info nosey

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/22/10 10:06am
Msg #341832

that's exactly why I don't fill that part in... n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 10:46am
Msg #341850

Ca requires it Cari n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/10 10:11am
Msg #341834

She had no right to do that...and I would have

politely told her to back off...and I'd have pointedly let her know that there's a very important sane reason for you to be there - among other reasons, first and foremost as a notary (if she is one) she should *know* that she can't notarize anything in which she has a financial interest!!!!

I don't put my fee in my journal until after the fact too - never gave a thought to anyone else seeing it but have considered that I don't want the borrowers/signers to see it.

Wow..pushy..and I certainly hope you were calling HER nosey..not me..

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 10:25am
Msg #341837

Re: She had no right to do that...and I would have

It is very hard for a person like me to do something like that without repercussions. Who you gonna believe, nice little lip-gloss her or big ugly me? LOL I can roll with the punches.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 6/22/10 10:29am
Msg #341838

hey, some gals like that rugged look! ;) n/m

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 6/22/10 10:37am
Msg #341842

Ummm...from another perspective

***She had no right to do that [see the journal of a notary public]...and I would have politely told her to back off***

In Texas, the journal of a notary public is a public record, and anyone can request a copy of anything in it. Since it is a public record, I would also construe that to mean that it is open to inspection to the public subject to reasonable restrictions as to time, place, etc. Because it is a public record, Texas notaries no longer include the number of the signer's driver's license, only the expiration date. And because it is a public record, I do not record my fees in it; that is not required.

I am hard-pressed to understand the reasoning behind shielding a notary journal in some sort of blanket of secrecy. Entries rarely have significant information other than the ID of the document. In fact, many of the journaled documents must ultimately be filed in public records.

We serve a government function. I believe in transparency in government to the maximum amount reasonable. In a quarter-century of reporting on government, my observation is that the more minor the functionary, the more he wishes to cloak his activities in secrecy. It is a way of inflating the importance of the job.

Even at my advanced age and with failing intellect, I am sufficiently aware enough to construct a scenario in which the information contained in a notary journal could be put to some nefarious use. However, the same could be said of almost any human endeavor, and in my view whatever negatives might result from open notary public journals are far and away offset by transparency.

JMO.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 10:43am
Msg #341847

page eleven of the 2010 CA notary handbook states..

among other things the Journal must include

• The fee charged for the notarial service.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/10 12:22pm
Msg #341879

Re: page eleven of the 2010 CA notary handbook states..

I know...but you could have put your fee in later...which is what I do - my journal is completed for the most post at the table but my fee is blank..

Reply by Rhonda Smith Engel on 6/22/10 10:49am
Msg #341851

Re: Ummm...from another perspective

In California the notary journal is not public record. If someone wants a copy of a line entry, they must put in writing exactly which entry, date, etc.

I don't let anyone see my journal, it has the personal & private information of many people whose signatures I have notarized and I do not take that lightly.

My .02

Reply by Ali/IL on 6/22/10 11:06am
Msg #341856

Re: Ummm...from another perspective

I don't let just anybody look at mine just to be nosey. But, in one occasion the borrower that was signing my journal saw someone elses info and said..hey that's my dentist.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/22/10 12:55pm
Msg #341886

No...in CA the journal *IS* public record... in a sense...

It's a limited form of public record. That's why, even though the journals are ours, when we are no longer notaries, the records go to the COUNTY CLERK.

The public has access to our records, if and only if, they request it a certain way.

Just like how our home address is considered public record, too.

THis RE agent had no business peeking at his journal, really.

Reply by rengel/CA on 6/22/10 2:03pm
Msg #341915

Re: No...in CA the journal *IS* public record... in a sense...

I still don't consider them "public record".

If someone is suing you for personal injuries, you can subpoena their medical records, but just anybody can't ask to see them.

Yes the public can see our records, but only a specific record and after proper request. I can't just go to the County Clerk's office and ask to see your journals.

That is why I don't consider them "public records". I hope this clarifies my reasoning.

My .02

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/22/10 2:45pm
Msg #341921

Thank you rengel/CA. That's how I've always felt about it.

Also, there's the issue of us having to maintain our journals under our own exclusive control. Naturally, part of that is to protect the integrity of the information contained there, but to be there is also the inference of privacy. People aren't allowed to randomly scroll through and look at other people's information. Some documents contain information related to private transactions that really aren't anyone else's business, unless they have a connection in some way.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/22/10 4:04pm
Msg #341953

They don't have to have a connection, though...

All they need to do is give you a month/year, the name of the person and the type of document -- and we're required to respond. It's can't be that difficult for somebody seriously deranged and nosy enough to figure out that much.

The SOS doesn't just let people rifle through their records, either... but if someone calls them and asks for the home or business address of a certain notary - they can get it. It's still public information, even though access is limited.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/24/10 3:38am
Msg #342274

Re: They don't have to have a connection, though...

Good point, Marian. If someone wants the information badly enough, they'll find a way to get it. But we don't have to make it any easier for them. I guess it's really a matter of semantics and how we define "public record". It may also just be a matter of shades of gray.

BTW, I'm taking a lead from your idea (and a suggestion from a fellow network member) and working on a new tool for myself to keep my journal entries covered. Thanks again for the photo and description!

Reply by aurelio/FL on 6/22/10 12:26pm
Msg #341880

Not in FL - our journals are not public record

"F.S. 117.05(3)(e) Any person who unlawfully possesses [...] any papers or copies relating to notarial acts is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083."

We aren't required to jeep journals but it is recommended - I keep one and always record the form and serial number of the ID document. That piece of info, aside from the signer's signature, IMO is the most important proof that the person appeared before you and that you did inspect their ID. Anyone could write down "produced Florida driver license" but you can only record the serial number if you are actually looking at the ID itself.

I will not allow public inspection of my journal and will only release copies of it to the borrowers named in the entry. It is no one's business what the person before them signed, or their address, phone # or D/L #. That's not my cloaking my activities in secrecy - it is respecting the privacy of the constituents I serve.

I think it's silly that Texas won't allow notaries to record ID numbers, as if we are going to misuse them. It is unfortunate that government places so little trust in notaries. Maybe stricter background checks and education requirements would increase public trust.

Reply by Doris_CO on 6/22/10 10:38am
Msg #341844

Were there errors in the loan package that were caught during the signing?

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 10:45am
Msg #341849

see first post n/m

Reply by MichiganAl on 6/22/10 11:04am
Msg #341855

Sorry James, I'm with Doris. I don't see it.

Where in your first post do you say what errors were found? What did you spot that the real estate agent didn't.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 11:15am
Msg #341859

Re: Sorry James, I'm with Doris. I don't see it.

<<<So I told her to look at the package and see if she could find any errors. LOL When was finished, she said there were none. I said, "then now you know why you're not doing it." She didn't get it! ROTFLMAO >>>

There where no errors....my point was, maybe she had committed some and so that's why they weren't using her.

Reply by MichiganAl on 6/22/10 11:20am
Msg #341861

Oh, I get it

You showed her that there were no errors in YOUR work. I thought there were errors on the HUD or other docs that you caught that she didn't. Shaking the cobwebs out of my head and walking away now...

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 11:16am
Msg #341860

Sorry Doris..I didn't make myself clear R

<<<So I told her to look at the package and see if she could find any errors. LOL When was finished, she said there were none. I said, "then now you know why you're not doing it." She didn't get it! ROTFLMAO >>>

There where no errors....my point was, maybe she had committed some and so that's why they weren't using her.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 6/22/10 11:47am
Msg #341867

Just curious

"She look at my journal and saw my fee"

The only "fee" that shows in my journal is the notary fee. If I only notarize one signature on a DOT, then it's ten bucks on the fee line regardless of the total fee. The rest can be of the "fee" is for travel. Travel is not a notary fee.

As stated before, in California, if someone wants a copy of an act as noted in my journal, they must ask in writing and be specific. I also run every request past my attorney before it is granted.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 6/22/10 12:51pm
Msg #341885

I am with you Glenn...

I only enter my $2 per.

Reply by JAM/CA on 6/22/10 12:17pm
Msg #341877

I have Post Its that are 4x6 inches. I use these on each page to cover up previous signings. It's nobody's business who I signed before them. We have too much personal info. on people. Sometimes I have to use four of these to completely cover other entries. The people appreciate knowing that I will cover their personal info. also.

I also, I do not put the fee till I'm home and invoicing, reviewing and logging. JMHO

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 6/22/10 1:00pm
Msg #341890

Fee mystery

I admit - reluctantly since I'll probaby get bashed for this - that I never understood the fee part in the journal as far as loan signing work goes. When I take a job for, say, $100, I don't separate out the number of notarizations I do X $10. In the first place, we don't have to charge anything to notarize. Second, using the $100 example, we sometimes have waaaay more than 10 notarizations. As far as I'm concerned I charged no fee to notarize these signatures - I charged $100 to print, get their signatures on the dotted line, and return docs. When it comes to general notary work, however, that's obvious, because I tell the signer that CA law sets $10 as the fee, blah blah and the rest is time and travel. In any case, I did NOT charge $100 to notarize a loan - or whatever I was paid. All I'm sure of is that the fee section in the journal was not designed to record how much you got paid by LSI or First American to do a loan.

As far as journal privacy goes, I hate it when borrowers snoop at previous people's info.... though I understand that it's tempting. The stickies are good, tho I wish they came in bigger sizes. I use card stock and a tiny binder clip. It looks kinda dorky sometimes, but it's better than exposing DL or passport numbers. Not to mention somebody finding a previous signer they know, like their dentist! And then tell them they saw all their info in the notary's journal. Yikes! You're right, JAM/CA, we have way to much personal info on people.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 6/22/10 1:50pm
Msg #341905

Re: Fee mystery

The only fees that go in my journal are the signature fees up to the total fee I am receiving. So in other words, if I am getting $125 for the work and I notarize 4 signatures, $40 is entered into my journal and $85 are considered travel fees or however you want to break it down. If for some reason I notarize enough signatures to exceed my total fee, then I enter $125 even if I notarized 20 signatures. The tax man won't allow you to exceed the total fee for that particular job. The travel fees I account for in my accounting program. Notary fees are not subject to FICA tax. Some people like to pay the FICA tax, I choose not to. The reasons on both sides have been discussed in other posts.

As far as privacy, a couple of pages of copy paper and 4 paper clips, then fold it over from the top after each job works for me.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/22/10 12:58pm
Msg #341888

James... you keeps those fees separate, right?

When you record the fees, you make sure that you always separate the notarial fees from everything else right?

Like others, I don't fill out that part on a loan signing until later. This is primarily because the fees have not yet been settled on my invoice, so I can't records fees that haven't been paid.

I always make sure that the notarial fees are on a separate line item from everything else. I don't ever want someone to come back and say I over charged. So even though I may get a "flat fee" for some jobs... I go back an itemize everything. No matter what.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/10 2:22pm
Msg #341917

Re: James... you keeps those fees separate, right?

Just got back from a signing...No, I don't keep the fees separate unless it's general notary work. Then I do as Glenn suggested.

The catch all for me is "confirmation fee" to do the job, no matter how, where, when, who.