Posted by Jessica Ward on 6/29/10 10:02pm
Msg #343079

Ughhhh... stumped....

So... I'm usually ahead of the curve. Not wanting my commission to get close to expiration I went ahead and filled out my renewal six months early (the earliest acceptable renewal date per the state's licensing office).

I got my new commission and ordered my new seal, etc. Then I called the licensing office and asked "so, do I use the old seal until the new one expires, or begin using the new one immediately?" I was told "it's the same commission, but it is now renewed for another four years, so begin using the new seal." I have now for a couple of months without incident (about 70+ closings I think). Now a title company is telling me, no, this isn't the case, I must come tomorrow and re-do some documents. Which I'm happy to do if it makes them comfortable, but they want my old seal on it.

I've since called back the licensing office and they told me that "of course nobody in our office would have given you any legal advice back when you called before..." (naturally).

Anyhow, suffice it to say, it sounds like I need to have my old seal--which per state law, was destroyed.

Anyone know where I can get a new seal made while I wait? Seems like even the regular stamp and seal vendors send out Notary seals mail order.

Has anyone else run into something like this before? I'm surprised that of 70 closings only one would be requesting the old seals on the documents. Also, has anyone gotten the question/answer go-round like this from their state licensing office? This surprises me a lot! I called the NNA hotline to ask the question today (since it has been brought to my attention) and they said I should have used the old seal until the day it expired, but could not provide me any reason as to why--especially seeing as how it's the same commission, etc.

Thoughts? Renewal stuff doesn't come up much, and the WA handbooks aren't very helpful--I turn to the WAC and RCW, which didn't address what to do about a commission renewed early.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/29/10 10:17pm
Msg #343084

What?

Looking at my seal I see Notary public state of Washington, my name, my commission expires 00,00,0000.

What more is the TC looking for? How do they know that you still had 6 months on the old one and why does it matter?

As for the NNA, what do they know? You have one seal, it's good for 4 years and you notarize documents with it.

Reply by Jessica Ward on 6/30/10 12:33am
Msg #343102

Re: What?

Philip, They're not wanting more info, but wanting my old seal on the docs, since it hasn't expired yet. My mistake for taking the advice of the licensing office, and destroying the old one since I had a replacement, even though it wasn't expired yet. I'm really baffled by this, as nobody else has had problems with it. My biggest fear was having my commission get too close to expiring, (it expires on the 15th of the month--say I notarized something on the 13th and it got recorded on the 16th of the month, what if the county rejected it because my commission was expired. I realize it only matters that the commission be valid on the date of the signature witnessing, but I've heard that the county rejects things for the strangest reasons (I've never had a deed that I record be rejected yet).

::sigh::
Thanks all for your thoughts on this.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/29/10 10:26pm
Msg #343088

In OR, we can only have one stamp, so

I stop using the old until midnight of the expiration date, and begin using the new date at 12:01 AM on the effective date. It's good for four years.

What is the effective/expiration date on each stamp? That might help me with WA stamps.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/29/10 10:31pm
Msg #343091

It's like your driver's license

It may expire on your birthday, but you renew a month out. Our licenses still expire on your birthday 5 years out.
Same with the seal it has one expiration date and that is 4 years from the date you renewed.

Reply by Jessica Ward on 6/30/10 12:26am
Msg #343101

Re: It's like your driver's license

Likewise, our car tabs expire in a certain month, and we renew weeks early and stick those on as soon as they arrive, right?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/29/10 10:28pm
Msg #343089

This site has the fastest turn around on notary seals. Check with Harry and see how fast he can get you one.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/29/10 10:32pm
Msg #343092

Harry can't give you one without the proper form

from the state. If you have already used that form in getting your current one, you ain't getting another.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/29/10 10:33pm
Msg #343093

Re: Harry can't give you one without the proper form

Bummer

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 6/29/10 10:34pm
Msg #343094

This is strictly an opinion, and grounded in nothing more than my belief that I know virtually everything worth knowing, and what I don't know, I can ask PAW about. And if he doesn't know it, I have more than one ex-wife, and they are always willing to comment on the gaps in my knowledge and tell me what I should know.

In Texas, our commissions are for four years; mine runs from 9/22/07 to 9/22/11. I don't think I can legitimately use a seal for my next commission, which will run from 9/23/11 to 9/23/15, during the term of my existing commission. And that's true whether it's during the renewal period or not.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/29/10 10:41pm
Msg #343096

Knowing even less then you and

not having any ex-wives to fill me in, our license runs concurrently. As an example my last stamp was issued on 9-10-2004 expiring on 9-9-2008. When I renewed in 2008 my current stamp was cut on 7-28-2008 expiring on 7/27/2012. When 2012 comes along my new stamp will start sometime in May and run through May 2016, I don't see a problem.

Reply by Jayhawk/KS on 6/30/10 12:42am
Msg #343103

Re: Knowing even less then you and

I guess I'm just being stupid about this but isn't this why people order stamps that have a blank area so you can just fill in the date and use them forever until the darn thing wears out? Are these not legal in some states, must be, from reading what I'm reading. Glad I live where things aren't so complicated. I just use date that is current, until it expires, and then use my new one when that one isn't good any more. Seems like you're making this matter way to difficult.

Reply by aurelio/FL on 6/30/10 6:57am
Msg #343112

Re: Knowing even less then you and

We used to use raised seals only in Florida, but then we had a separate stamp with our expiration date. My stamp had the last two digits of the year a blank line, so that I could just fill in the new expiration year when my commission renewed.

But, now we have commission numbers which change each time and the law says that the full date needs to be on the actual stamp. I'm sure other states don't have that requirement. Some states don't even need the expiration date on the seal, as long as the notary prints, types or stamps the date under the signature.

Reply by Julie/MI on 6/30/10 7:21am
Msg #343115

Love Michigan's simplistic notary policies :)

Staples, Office Max, Office Depot....

I got mine the same day with Office Max...

I'm talking seal here not the embosser.....

Still trying to figure out how a title company would know that you renewed your commission. Here we when we received a new commission, we use that right away. Guess I need more coffee.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/30/10 4:42pm
Msg #343230

Re: Love Michigan's simplistic notary policies :)

"Still trying to figure out how a title company would know that you renewed your commission. "

Someone obviously did the math and figured out that the old commission hadn't expired yet since the expiration date was more than 4 year away.

When we get our renewal, there's a note that says not to start using the new expiration date until after the old one has passed.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/30/10 7:38am
Msg #343117

Re: Ughhhh... stumped....dont know how it is in WA

Here in FL our Commission Certificates specifically state "from xx/xx/xxx - xx/xx/xxxx" -

My new one states 6/29/2010-6/28/2014 - my new commission is not effective until 6/29/2010, so neither is my new stamp (which came with a small note on bright yellow paper - "DO NOT USE UNTIL NEW COMMISSION DATE")...I destroyed my old stamp the evening of Monday, 6/28/2010. Guess I'm saying you should have referred to your commission certificate for the "effective date" of that commission - if March and you renewed but it states it's effective in May or June, then you can't use the stamp associated with that new commission until May or June.

Another thing to consider...not sure if it's the same in WA, but here, if the company sent the package back to be re-stamped for *whatever* reason, we can't just restamp - we need to go revisit the signers - and the current date goes in our certs, not backdated - no changing of our certs once we leave the signers' presence. So, if that's the case in WA too, and if the revisit is not due to something YOU did wrong, looks like the company should be paying you to go back for the resign.

Just some thoughts, as requested...

Good Luck, Jessica...

Reply by aurelio/FL on 6/30/10 7:43am
Msg #343119

Re: Ughhhh... stumped....dont know how it is in WA

Exactly. Our stamps are good until the day our commission expires. Until our commission expires, our new one does not take effect. For example, a notary with commission starting 1/2/2008 and ending 1/1/2012 will use his or her current stamp until 1/1/2012. If the notary already renewed, the commission will state that it starts on 1/2/2012 and end on 1/1/2016, so the notary can't use the new stamp with the 2016 exp. date until 1/2/12.

Sorry, that probably made it more confusing.

That's how it is in Florida ... I thought that's how it was everywhere but apparently not in WA

Reply by SharonMN on 6/30/10 9:54am
Msg #343133

Re: Ughhhh... stumped....dont know how it is in WA

In MN we have the same commission number, and it is renewed for another 5 years - there is no "starting date" given so we can start using the new stamp immediately. ALL commissions expire on 31 January.

Reply by 1AZNotary on 6/30/10 10:29am
Msg #343135

Office Max :-)

Hello Jessica. I have had mine made in one hour at Office Max :-)

Hope this helps.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/30/10 11:41am
Msg #343145

I would just tell the TC the truth

That the licensing office told you that you could start using the new seal immediately, so you destroyed the old one so you can't redo the docs with your old seal. What's done is done.

Reply by mwm143 on 6/30/10 2:36pm
Msg #343188

Had a situation wherein an expiration w/i 6 months was not

acceptable. This was for a neighbors adoption papers. Neither situation makes sense to me.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/30/10 2:46pm
Msg #343190

Re: Had a situation wherein an expiration w/i 6 months was not

Was this for a foreign adoption? Some countries are very picky about the expiration dates. That is if the notary's commission had an expiration date between the notarization and the document getting to the foreign country.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/1/10 3:40am
Msg #343359

Re: Had a situation wherein an expiration w/i 6 months was not

I've seen them require as much as 2 years before the commission expires for an international adoption.