Posted by anita55109 on 6/11/10 11:55am
Msg #340560

What comes around does not go around

Today I called all my utility companies to tell them that I would pay them when I got the money and had no clue when that would be. I gave them a very long tale of woe and said that I was sorry but there just wasn't any money to pay them now. I also told them I knew I would have it some day but didn't know when that day would be. I offered for them to call me every week and ask me if I was able to pay and I would be happy to fill them in on the situation again. Hmmmm. How come that works for SS but not for me?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/11/10 11:58am
Msg #340563

Anita...you forgot to tell them one thing..

that you'd cut their check but it was sitting on your desk and would be mailed <<insert future date here>>....:)

Reply by bagger on 6/11/10 12:09pm
Msg #340564

I am relatively new doing this job (Less than 1 year), and retired so I am doing this to supplement income. However, since day 1, I have been wondering how we got to this point. Standard business practice is payment within 30 days of invoicing (sometimes 15). How in the world have we allowed this "standard" to develop to the point of cutting checks on the last day of the following month making the payment cycle somewhere in the 45-60 day range. If the majority of your AR is past 30 days, your business is not operating efficiently.
Maybe some of the more experienced Notaries can explain how the precedent got set.
Thank you in advance.

Reply by LisaWI on 6/11/10 12:23pm
Msg #340566

Back before I started in this (5 yrs ago) and the biz was booming, some comps set the standards for payment and Signing Agents agreed with it not knowing that someday it would bite everyone in the behind. At that point, no one minded cause it was money in the pipeline and biz as usual.

I never did agree with these payment terms and have stuck to my guns with 30 days or less and have dodged alot of grief. I agree, you cannot run your business efficiently on anything past 30 days. Logically, to me anyway, it just doesnt make sense to go past the 30 days.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/11/10 12:30pm
Msg #340568

We had our propane tank serviced and topped off the

other day (propane to run the generator...happy FL hurricane season)....the service tech left the bill here...30 days or 1.5% per month on the unpaid balance...

I agree with you Lisa...no one does business letting balances accumulate past 30 days ... except us..

Reply by janCA on 6/11/10 1:02pm
Msg #340570

Started with SS's

Not having the capital to, not only run their business, but to not pay the notaries that did their signings. Many had to wait for their payments from the title companies in order to pay bills and make payroll. And even then, many who thought running an SS would be a simple task, not having any business sense or plan, got in way over their heads. Much of their downfall was pure and simple greed. Title companies always paid (at least in my situation) back "in the day". SS's have been faltering for many years. Just my opinion.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/11/10 1:06pm
Msg #340571

Re: Started with SS's

Jan is right!
And some signing services were started by signing agents who couldn't make it as a signing agent, and saw a signing service as a quick profit making business.
When I started my signing service back in 2003, I made sure I had the capital to do it.

I have never understood why some signing services don't pay faster. They get paid when the loan funds, so they should be able to pay their notaries for the signing in a week, not 30 days or longer.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/11/10 3:52pm
Msg #340592

Re: Started with SS's

There are some SS that do not get paid when the loan funds.
Title doesn’t want to write, and send checks on an individual closing basis, they prefer to pay on a weekly, or monthly basis. The SS that accepts these terms should have the capital to pay the notaries they contract with when they do the job, NOT when, or if they, the SS, gets paid. One thing has nothing to do with the other! If the SS hires someone to do a job, and they do it, they owe them for that job, period! If they don’t have the capital to pay for their contracted service they should NOT be in this business.
Running a SS properly is a fulltime, grueling, capital intensive, risky business with little return. Even a small SS will have at risk 25 to 50 thousand dollars a month. And those that actually DO pay their notaries must compete with the deadbeats and low-ballers, that pop up every day. Those Notaries that work for these deadbeats, thieves, low-ballers under capitalized hobbyists, and farm-outs not only risk not being paid, they hurt all other NSA’s, and legitimate SS’s. Plus they help keep these so-called SS companies in business.
If NONE of us would accept jobs from these known losers, or be willing to take payment months out, or work for nothing or peanuts these guys would go away.
Stop complaining, and work only for what you’re worth, set a timely payment period (say 14 to 30 days), and TURN DOWN ALL others!
They do it because they can, and we let them!

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 6/11/10 4:12pm
Msg #340594

I agree completely, Les

I do not work with companies that pay past 30 days. No reason for it, there are enough decent companies out there, that are willing to pay decent fees (over $XXX) and treat me like a professional. The respect is mutual.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/11/10 4:13pm
Msg #340595

Yes Les..If they're not giving u what u want turn'm down! n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/12/10 12:52pm
Msg #340677

5 Star Post, Les CO. Everyone should read...

and heed. Particularly the 2nd & 3rd paragraphs. Something interesting frequently happens around here when I turn down these 'bad' SS. A good one calls with the same signing. Even if it doesn't happen and someone accepts the low-ball offer (or from a no-pay co.)--is my competition doing well?

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/11/10 1:12pm
Msg #340572

Re: We had our propane tank serviced and topped off the

I have only been doing this for 3 years this month so there are no good ol' days for me. I can say however, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what has happened. SS who pay net 30 on any given day has 25-29 days of other peoples money in the bank account. If they had the proper funding initially, the expenses vs income should roll over. If they are managing correctly, their bank accounts (profits) should be increasing. Like a Ponzi scheme however, they are spending the money faster then it's coming in so they put it off paying us.
The one that amazes me is the excuse they have used, "sorry, we're extremely busy and we'll get you your check as soon as we can...Well,....they're not busy now?

Reply by bagger on 6/11/10 1:16pm
Msg #340573

Re: We had our propane tank serviced and topped off the

OK, I agree that back in the olden days the "float" meant something. With today's interest rates the float in you checking account (if it pays interest at all) means squat. I still cannot find a valid reason for the SS's to be holding payment for 60 days.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/11/10 1:44pm
Msg #340583

There is none! n/m

Reply by RJE/MI on 6/11/10 1:28pm
Msg #340575

I love that one

When I sent an email to a SS to inquire about a past due invoice I received a reply that said due to a high volume of business we do not have the time to get checks out to our Signing Agents. As soon as business slows we will get caught up with everyone.

All I know is when a bill comes to me and I have an excess of $ I am happy to pay that bill and get it out of the way.

The only time I put it off to the last minute is when I am short on cash due to SS not paying me in a timely manner.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/11/10 1:32pm
Msg #340576

Anheuser Busch, the world's largest beer maker has gone

to 90 days paying their distributors, vendors, supplies etc etc etc. Take it or leave it is there stance. Sad, sad.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/11/10 1:35pm
Msg #340577

Re: Anheuser Busch, the world's largest beer maker has gone

hit enter too soon.   You would think that they have the capitol to sustain their business.   They are hurting just like the rest of the world.  They are using someone else's money for 90 days and drawing interest.   There is not a darn thing anyone can do about it. It is their way of doing business now, take it or leave it.

Reply by janCA on 6/11/10 2:03pm
Msg #340587

Re: Anheuser Busch, the world's largest beer maker has gone

I'll sure bet that the big corporate execs, though, who make astronomical salaries, don't wait 90 days.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/11/10 1:36pm
Msg #340579

Disney does the same thing - 60-120, take it or leave it. n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/11/10 1:47pm
Msg #340585

Re: Disney does the same thing - 60-120, take it or leave it.

Donald Trump and his dad made their money by saying, hey we can't pay you what we agreed to, so we'll give you this!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/11/10 4:22pm
Msg #340597

They do it because they can

As much as I hate it, some of it boils down to supply and demand. As long as there is demand for what they are offering and an oversupply of those who want what they offer -- whether it's beer or signing appointments -- they will be able to dictate the terms.

For most of us, that means that they have few problems finding someone else for whatever assignments we turn down. And many of them are resorting to other methods of dealing with the problems that come from inexperience. They are looking for whatever ways they can come up with to survive and thrive in the market. I'm not saying this is a smart business plan, nor am I defending it, but it is what some have resorted to. We all have to find our own ways of adapting and changing in a changing marketplace.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/11/10 5:28pm
Msg #340599

Re: They do it because they can

I agree Janet…”They do It because they can.” But…. Why? Yes it’s a slow market. Does the buyer/borrower pay any less in closing costs today, as opposed to a few years back? I don’t think so. Do lawyers in “Attorney only States” charge less now than they did a few years ago? Not as I have been able to see, in fact (IMO) many are charging MORE today. So why is it that “Market Influences” are driving down the fees paid to NSA’s. We can all thank the NNA and their marketing agenda…and we can thank those unprofessional among us too short sighted, unaware, or stupid to understand what accepting puny offers, on any terms will do to this business.
Yes..They do it because they can…and we let them.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/12/10 12:00am
Msg #340618

Yup. While the bars have to pay cash on the barrel head.

They got their$, and make the vendors wait. I understand the value of 'accounts receivable' and the pipeline - I just don't understand why Anheuser Busch's cash-flow is cash-rich, and MainStreet is credit strapped. Sigh.

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/11/10 1:41pm
Msg #340581

imho, in order to get the business, SS agrees to bill TC for a whole month's worth of work and then wait 'til that check comes in to pay themselves & their bills and anything left over will go to paying the Notary. If there's not enough left, pay the squeaky one or the one we'll likely need next week and the rest---when we get around to it.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/11/10 1:48pm
Msg #340586

BINGO! n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 6/11/10 2:07pm
Msg #340588

AHA! This is happening more and more these days! n/m

Reply by Frank/NC on 6/11/10 2:16pm
Msg #340589

Well, there's one thing we all agreeon and that is, business is terrible.