Posted by Robert/FL on 3/10/10 8:52pm
Msg #326407

Doc stamp/taxes for general notarizations

Just for the sake of discussion...

In other countries, and in Jamaica I know for certain, some notarized documents, if not all notarized documents, require that a postage or other sort of physical documentary adhesive stamp be affixed to the document. Thus, the government is in theory able to collect a minimal tax for every notarial act performed.

With the states clamoring to bring in more income, I wonder if anyone has considered such a practice in the United States? In Florida, our clerks collect "documentary stamp tax" depending upon the value of the transaction in order to record a document... many years ago these taxes were paid by affixing actual adhesive "doc stamps" to the paper document. Perhaps bringing back that concept and requiring a certain amount to be affixed to all notarized documents, or at least just those notarized documents to be recorded, would be a way to increase state revenue.

Not necessarily saying I would support or oppose such an idea, but wanted to hear others thoughts?

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/10/10 8:56pm
Msg #326408

This probably belongs in leisure n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/10/10 9:06pm
Msg #326411

I think most states already do that but don't always call it

"stamps" any more..they're conveyance taxes on property and are imposed when the conveyance documents are recorded...there were conveyance taxes in CT, and there's taxes here in FL...I imagine most other states have thought of this too.

Reply by PAW on 3/11/10 6:43am
Msg #326430

Florida still has "Doc Stamps"

Documentary stamp tax is levied at the rate of $.70 per $100 (or portion thereof) on documents that transfer interest in Florida real property, such as warranty deeds and quit claim deeds. (The Miami-Dade County rate is $.60 on all documents plus $.45 surtax on documents transferring anything other than a single-family residence). This tax is usually paid to the Clerk of Court when the document is recorded. The Clerks of Court send the money to the Department of Revenue and the Department distributes the funds according to law.

Documentary stamp tax is also levied at the rate of $.35 per $100 (or portion thereof) on documents that are executed or delivered in Florida, for example:

* Notes and other written obligations to pay.
* Certain renewal notes.
* Bonds (original issuance).
* Mortgages.
* Liens.

Florida law limits the maximum tax due on notes and other written obligations to $2,450. However, there is no limit on the documentary stamp tax due for mortgages or liens filed or recorded in Florida. Tax is paid to the Clerk of Court if the document is recorded, or sent directly to the Department of Revenue if the document is not recorded.

Documentary stamp tax is payable by any of the parties to a taxable transaction. If one party is exempt, the tax must be paid by the nonexempt party. United States government agencies; Florida government agencies; and Florida's counties, municipalities, and political subdivisions are exempt from documentary stamp tax.

You can review the DOR's brochure on doc stamps by downloading/viewing http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2009/gt800014.pdf

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/11/10 12:18am
Msg #326419

I don't see this in Liesure...!

However they may actually resolve this issue most States charge a documentation tax, some actually use stamps others just have a tax now. Most real estate brokers have to be able to calculate the stamp tax as part of the settlement statement as well as part of the licensing test.

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/11/10 1:24am
Msg #326420

Recording fees are?????? n/m

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/11/10 6:34am
Msg #326429

Re: Recording fees are??????

In FL, recording fees are separate from the stamp tax... For example, if you are recording a POA with no monetary value, you wouldn't pay stamp tax but you would still pay a recording fee.

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/11/10 9:29am
Msg #326446

Re: Recording fees are??????

My point was,...they could just increase the recording fees to cover the cost of the stamp. The process is already in place. Otherwise let's see, A Stamp Tax Commissioner, Lt. Stamp Tax Commissioner, County Stamp Tax Commissioner....PAW is correct. IMO

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/11/10 6:25am
Msg #326425

I was actually talking about the possibility of affixing stamps to ALL notarized documents as a way for the gov't to collect tax on a government service.

And I don't understand why this should go in "Leisure", but posts like "I miss Sue_PA", "The Census Bureau & IDs", "Anyone know of any good printer deals?", belong on a notary forum? My original post is actually related to notaries.

Reply by Prosperity on 3/11/10 6:28am
Msg #326426

Yall keep me laughing

Good point Robert

Reply by PAW on 3/11/10 6:48am
Msg #326431

Do you realize the bureaucracy that would have to be put into place at the state level, much less at a federal level, to administer, regulate and collect a "notary doc stamp tax?"

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/11/10 6:52am
Msg #326432

No... all that would be required is for the Dept. of Revenue to make stamps available for purchase at post offices in Florida, and require that members of the public provide them when they need a document notarized.

It's just a thought.

Reply by Julie/MI on 3/11/10 8:21am
Msg #326438

I'm sure our "revenue" sniffing gov already came up with a notary tax; everyone that applies for their notary commission is required to pay $10 to the general notary fund that's supposed to go for notary education.
She would find a way to tax every notary act. She already wants to tax doctor visits--a service tax, and no I'm not kidding. No service tax for an attorney visit though.
I DO notice a lot more vehicles are being pulled over for traffic violations, the good old stand by for revenue.
MI is not a "notary happy" state, one can pretty much go about their business without day to day documents being notarized.
So I just had a loan last night with 13 docs that had to be notarized. These folks have not ever refinanced their property. I think it's absurd that they would have to go to the post office to get their notary stamps for their closing when even I don't know how many docs need to be notarized until I print the docs, then I could get a last minute aff from title that needs to be notarized. The people are burdened enough. Don't need to have notary stamps lying around.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/11/10 8:25am
Msg #326439

IMO if something like this were implemented

the onus would be on the notary to provide the "stamps", collect the fee for them and report it...thereby covering the "I don't know how many docs need notarization" problem. Unless they restricted it to recordable documents, which can be tracked.

I have trouble getting $10/notarization up here in the sticks...I can just see me trying to collect that PLUS the price of a tax stamp....

Reply by Laura_V on 3/11/10 11:11am
Msg #326500

OMG! What a terrific idea!

Good on you, Robert!!!

Very smart thinking - OMG - soooooo smart!



The only think I don't like about "per stamp" taxes or fees is that there is no sliding scale for the little guy.

Ex: changing titles on cars requires notarization in WA and I would guess just about all other states. OK fine. Someone buying a new Lexus cares zip about the little stamp tax.

But one broke person selling a used nightmare car to another guy who needs it to get to his minimum wage job a half hour away - that's not OK fine in my book.

So your idea is super great - it's just that little former flower girl me would just like to see it tweaked a tad - like price of stamp related to price of vehicle sold.

OK, fine, easy.




Your wonderful musings came up with an idea which could impact our incomes in a different way.

How about a notary income seal fee per use of embosser image? I'm TOTALLY down with that.



I started noticing a few years ago that ppl who needed docs notarized (yes docs, not siggys, as in copy certd of doctoral theses) wanted my black ink stamp on the notarial certificate and my embossed seal impression on every single durn page.

These "must be embossed every page" requests were coming from various agencies in Japan, China, and SW Asia.


True example: guy here wants PhD thesis copy certified/notarized to send to Japan so he can get license from govt there and he can accept the offer for his dream job in Japan. (I was the 7th or whatever notary he called. Nobody else had an embosser. hint hint)



I thought this "every page" request was super smart. That way the govt agency knows there were no page substitutions after the doc left my hands.



Back to you, Robert -

So how about if the NOTARIES get 50c or $2 or whatever for every embossed seal impression?

Most of the copy certs I do are one or two pages. 50c or $4. OK fine.

But I get the occasional 80pg doc, too. $40 or $160? OK fine and its time for notary happy dances in the yard with the pug.



I'm busy right now, Robert. Can you pls just make this happen nationwide for all of this week or next?



And ppl think we are "just notaries." OK, fine.
You, Robert, are "just a notary" and "just a flippin genius."


Good on you!!! LauraV

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/11/10 11:22am
Msg #326503

Re: OMG! What a terrific idea!

I've never notarized something where I needed to emboss every page, so I don't know if that would benefit most notaries. Most notaries in FL anyway don't even have an embosser; although I use one with every notarization.

I have just seen in other countries where they literally put postage stamps on notarized documents, and this ensures that the government gets a little tax on the transaction. Just an idea.

Reply by Laura_V on 3/11/10 11:35am
Msg #326509

I totally got your idea and.......

I totally got your idea. LOVED it.

I have seen stamps on foreign docs, too. One was small, mostly red, and really cool looking. So, yep, I get the picture.



Sorry for the lack of clear writing. I do that when I get excited.

I just took your idea and piggybacked something a little different and turned it into a way for us notaries to be paid a decent fee occasionally.


Seal fees are OK in FL and WA. But in most other states they need to be raised.

I think the seal fee in AZ is $2 and the mileage fee for notaries is capped at 37c or other dinky amount.

CT and OH have horrific seal fees, too.

So wouldn't it be great if we were able to resell stamps - like you suggested to us -
AND get notaries in low-seal-fees states some decent pay?


I would love that.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/11/10 1:40pm
Msg #326565

Re: I totally got your idea and.......

Do you go to the post office and buy stamps for resale? What a potential money maker....just like grocery stores or greeting card stores. You could make a killing - buy for 44cents, sell for 60 cents. Then affix postang stamps to your envelopes, or just buy the envolopes already stamped, insert docs and away you go. Another 16 cents richer! Wow - now don't forget to include this on your taxes as income. And if you do 100, that is $16.00.

Wow, wow, woow!@ What a money maker!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/11/10 9:11pm
Msg #326755

I don't know...

The other side of this could be onerous additional bookkeeping and paper work by notaries, however. Can you imagine the tax reporting and filing that we might need to do? That is unless we COULD, in fact, buy them from the Post Office and resell them at a whopping profit, as illustrated by Julie.

BTW, Laura, I don't think the embosser on every page would fly in CA. As I understand it, the embosser can be considered the same as our notary seal and can only be used next to appropriate notarial wording. Nice thought, though!

Reply by Cari on 3/11/10 12:43pm
Msg #326520

Geez.... for someone who supposedly has a full-time job, u

sure do have lots of questions/discussions, and time to visit this forum.....hmmmm

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/11/10 12:47pm
Msg #326522

Heaven forbid I discuss NOTARY topics on a NOTARY forum! n/m

Reply by Cari on 3/11/10 1:00pm
Msg #326529

There are Notary Publics and Notary Closing Agents...do you

at least acknowledge that fact?

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/11/10 1:24pm
Msg #326555

Re: There are Notary Publics and Notary Closing Agents...do you

I acknowledge that there are signing agents who are also notaries as a job requirement; much like there are paralegals who are also notaries as a job requirement. However, I view them as separate things - you do not see me talking about paralegal stuff.

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/11/10 1:25pm
Msg #326557

And it's *Notaries Public*, NOT *Notary publics* n/m