Posted by trnsa_IL on 3/17/10 2:21pm
Msg #327732

How can a person function in this world without a valid ID?

I am going back tonight to do a closing that was postponed from last Thursday due to the lack of co-borrower's valid ID. When I confirmed with the borrower I stated he and his wife would need to present a valid government issued photo ID. I get there and co- borrower wife has no valid ID. Her driver's license had expired 10/2008, and she had no other ID, period (passport or state ID). She even commented that she still had her maiden name on her ss card. Her husband was furious!

I left messages and emails for TC, and I left. Next morning escrow officer calls and wants to know what happened. I explained that not only did her DL expire 17 months ago, but her ss card is still in her maiden name. He says, and I quote "Awe bite me!" He calls LO, and soon LO calls me; same story with near same results. He asked me how people function in this world without ID.

So I'm thinking how do people function in this world without valid ID.

I must show ID at the bank to even deposit money into my account, not to mention cash a check or make a withdrawal. Many times I'm asked for my DL when I use a credit card, and people who purchase alcohol must show ID, do they not. Most large purchases require ID (home, car, etc.) But, other than a traffic stop, I am having trouble thinking of reasons people need to show ID's today providing that they already have a job, house, and a car. On-line banking, automatic deposit, ATM's, and on-line shopping all replace the my original thoughts for needing ID, save purchases of alcohol and refinances.

I guess I was trying to figure out how a person can go 17 months without needing a valid license in the state of Illinois. She said she was told (incorrectly) that her DL was good for 1 year past the date of expiration. She actually had 1 year to renew it without having to take the written test. Well, she went to the DMV and got a state ID card (which she said was a hassle without her married name on the ss card she also had to find her marriage license) and so tonight we sign.

Any thoughts?

Reply by CopperheadVA on 3/17/10 2:37pm
Msg #327734

Don't have an answer for you, but I know that now-a-days it's a real PITA to renew your license or ID card if you've let it expire. It's like starting from scratch - you must bring in all sorts of proof that you are who you say you are. And here in Virginia, she would not have been able to get a new ID the very next day. After you jump through all the hoops at the DMV, the license or ID card is mailed to you approx 2 weeks later.

I'm rarely asked for my ID so yes I can see how people could get lazy and just let it go and never get around to renewing it, but it's totally inexcusable!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/17/10 2:42pm
Msg #327736

I don't get it...

We can't even get medical care down here without photo ID.......first thing they say is "photo ID, insurance card, and $xx co-pay"....lucky if we get a hello first.

At my age I don't need it to buy alcohol though, but it IS flattering to be carded for the first time in my life!! LOL

If she still has her maiden name on her social security card, I'm not surprised she didn't renew her license...sounds like she doesn't really pay attention to the small details of her life...

Good luck with this one - watch her want to read every word!!!..:LOL

Reply by trnsa_IL on 3/17/10 2:45pm
Msg #327738

I, too, must show photo ID at every doctor visit...

that is one I didn't think of, and I am sure there are more. It seems odd that she could go so long without having to show it to someone.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/17/10 3:19pm
Msg #327749

Re: I, too, must show photo ID at every doctor visit...

Same here -- my medical group requires a photo ID when I check in, AND the nurse double checks once you get in the room, especially in the urgent care area. They do it to prevent insurance fraud and people using insurance cards that belong to other people, like family members or roommates.

There was a story here locally about two women who were arrested for fraud when one gave her insurance card to her uninsured sister to get medical services over a period of about 6 months. The hospital figured it out when reviewing billing records and charts that showed routine blood tests were coming back with conflicting blood types.

Reply by Deborah Lewellen on 3/17/10 2:47pm
Msg #327740

How about an arrest record?

I had one a couple weeks ago same thing, the husband had absolutely not one piece of ID,
I'm like yeah right, when I called to confirm I told borrowers that they'd need to make photocopies of their valid ID, wife says, well he doesn't have any, period, it had all been stolen,and he hasn't gotten it replaced, he needs to get a copy of his birth cert. out of state and has had trouble getting it, his last name was different than hers but then she would use her name hyphenated with his, but it was never changed legally, he also had a hispanic last name and I'm thinking this has identity theft written all over it and it really had me suspicious,
so since this was the case closing was cancelled, fortunately no trip or copies were printed. Last week was contacted to go out for this one again, this time though, title told them, if he can't get something with a pic on it, then it ain't gonna happen.
So they got his arrest record and sent it over to the staff attorney who approved it and when I saw it along with his pic right on it, I approved it too,
That was a first.

Reply by Patricia/VT on 3/17/10 3:27pm
Msg #327753

Re: How about an arrest record?

In California, I once had a 98 year old man whose passport and license had expired and who had no state ID card, so we met at his bank where they knew him well, and the bank manager and another employee served as credible identifying witnesses.

Here in Vermont, some people have valid paper licenses, with no photo!

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/17/10 4:43pm
Msg #327770

Here's one for the books: Only ID is a 3 year expired DL from another state & a R.E. (non-photo...not acceptable ID)...both have the 'wrong name'--and are different, too, on them.
I decline the notarization with the TC in the loop. It closed anyway...later that day in the originating Broker's office with his 'staff' notary. How 'bout them apples?

Reply by Cari on 3/17/10 5:02pm
Msg #327771

I think you should've told them that these also had to be

'current'; just by saying that they needed a 'valid government issued photo id' is apparently not enough info for some.....

I had a person some into my office yesterday, for a POA signing, and he didn't have an ID either...it was crazy n ur right...how can they go w/out an ID???

I told him he had to get one, and he finally got one a few days before he came in!

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/17/10 8:27pm
Msg #327779

IMO - and I know that in most states this is not specifically addressed - a D/L should be acceptable proof of identity for notarization purposes,even if the license is expired. In my opinion, it should be the *driving privileges* that expire, not the identification aspect of the license.

In Florida, our laws are pretty clear: either the document must be current -or- it must have been issued within the past 5 years. Although I can't think off the top of my head any circumstance, other than a suspended license for traffic violations, where one of the acceptable ID documents is expired but was issued within the past 5 years.

Reply by trnsa_IL on 3/17/10 9:20pm
Msg #327795

While I understand you were stating you opinion, I want it to be clear that expired ID is not acceptable for notarizations in Illinois.

Illinois Notary Public Handbook:

Sec. 6-102. Notarial Acts. (a) In taking an acknowledgment, the notary public must determine, either from personal knowledge or from satisfactory evidence, that the person appearing before the notary and making the acknowledgment is the person whose true signature is on the instrument.

(b) In taking a verification upon oath or affirmation, the notary public must determine, either from personal knowledge or from satisfactory evidence, that the person appearing before the notary and making the verification is the person whose true signature is on the statement verified.

(c) In witnessing or attesting a signature, the notary public must determine, either from personal knowledge or from satisfactory evidence, that the signature is that of the person appearing before the notary and named therein.

(d) A notary public has satisfactory evidence that a person is the person whose true signature is on a document if that person:

(1) is personally known to the notary;

(2) is identified upon the oath or affirmation of a credible witness personally known to the notary; or

(3) is identified on the basis of identification documents. Until July 1, 2013, identification documents are documents that are valid at the time of the notarial act, issued by a state or federal government agency, and bearing the photographic image of the individual’s face and signature of the individual.

(Source: P.A. 84-322.)

Reply by Linda Juenger on 3/17/10 10:47pm
Msg #327810

Tonya. Are you having any issues with the military ID in

our area? They are no longer acceptable as of last June. They do not contain a signature. I've had military people try and give me an expired liscense from another state and rely only on the military ID.

3) is identified on the basis of identification documents. Until July 1, 2013, identification documents are documents that are valid at the time of the notarial act, issued by a state or federal government agency, and bearing the photographic image of the individual’s face and signature of the individual

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 3/17/10 11:48pm
Msg #327824

Re : "expired " drivers license of military personnel. I can

not cite a specific authority at this time, but I believe that by either federal
or most ( if not all ) state statures, driver's licenses held by active duty
military personnel do NOT expire. Will try to research when I have time.
If I am correct, then an otherwise valid , though expired , DL presented by
an active duty serviceperson. would be valid for IL purposes.
Have not read entire thread, but there is another problem of ID .
Even if ID meets requirements of state NP law, it may not necessarily meet
the specific lender requirements under the Patriot Act.
Unless ID qualified for both state ID and lender requirements. then the loan signing can
not proceed. For example, to my knowledge, NO lender accepts a credible witness
as valid identification for Patriot Act purposes.

Reply by trnsa_IL on 3/18/10 8:20am
Msg #327842

Re: Tonya. Are you having any issues with the military ID in

I have not had this issue as of yet, Linda. I have had people offer a military ID as a secondary form of ID for loan purposes without any issues being brought to my attention, but not as a primary form of ID. I have heard before of the expired military person's DL being acceptable ID as Bob stated, but again I have not has this issue come up for notarizations as of yet. I will try and find more info on this issue so I can be more informed for when/if it does come up.

Reply by trnsa_IL on 3/18/10 8:35am
Msg #327844

Sorry, should read: military person's expired DL. LOL! n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/17/10 11:45pm
Msg #327822

I agree

"IMO - and I know that in most states this is not specifically addressed - a D/L should be acceptable proof of identity for notarization purposes,even if the license is expired. In my opinion, it should be the *driving privileges* that expire, not the identification aspect of the license."

In those states that do not require a specific type of ID (such as NY), this should be a non-issue - you don't stop being the person you were just because your drivers license expired. Some states are very specific about what type of ID is valid, and notaries there are required to follow those rules, but in states that don't specify, what the heck is the difference?

Personally, I usually don't even look at the expiration date on a D/L - as long as the photo and name match the person in front of me , we're good to go... As you said, the expiration date refers to their driving privileges, not their identity.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/17/10 8:58pm
Msg #327790

Hooboy, yup. Ancient mother in private home care, playing

solitaire in her wheelchair at the table. Caregiver popped a couple of M&Ms into mother's mouth every five minutes or so. Other elderly folks wheeled past to or from TV room. 'Son' and his wife moved mother from Nowhere Kansas, lost her purse in the move - 7 years ago. Wife off in Hawaii - ho help. Kids trying to sell mother's KS home. No ID for mother, of course.

Please, please just do this, we have been trying for so long. We had another doc she needed notarized the last time we tried, there was a problem, so we really need you to do this.

Since I didn't personally know anyone there, no credible witless possible. Mother just moved her cards from stack to stack, seemed oblivious and did not respond to me, I explained to son for the fifth time she must have ID (17 excuses why she couldn't be driven to DMV for state ID), and finally had to just excuse myself, with apologies for not being able to accomodate. Son furious, mother munched M&Ms, caregiver continuously assured me mother was <<name>>, Moi was not moved.

Somewhere in the mix, I found the previous notary's name, (local) and so I called when I got home. She remembered it well, ran into same thing, no ID, no go.

Honestly. Sigh.