Posted by Heather/NH on 3/11/10 7:44pm
Msg #326723

Is this unheard of?

I have been doing signings for approx. 5 years now and only had one company that I had to fight tooth and nail to get paid.
Now I am seeing that a lot more are not paying and/or paying late.
Is it even a consideration to ask for a portion of the payment sent via paypal upfront? At least to cover printing.. sort of a good faith thing?

Reply by Grammyzoom on 3/11/10 7:58pm
Msg #326724

Back in 2007 when things went bad for a lot of signing companies I got stuck with over $2,000.00 in unpaid invoices. Only one of those companies, Signatures Plus, did this intentionally. I know a lot of the old timers got caught and when you get burnt you tend to be over cautious.

I think we just have to check out SC prior to taking work from a company the first time and if they look OK, have the faith that you will get paid. A lot of signing companies are struggling right now to get paid themselves and it has slowed down the payment process down the line.

My personal rule is if I don't receive payment within 45 days I call and give them a friendly nudge. (Never call at the end of the month when they are slammed though.) This process has not let me down yet. I think being friendly and also letting them know that it could be an oversight on your part works wonders.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 3/11/10 8:29pm
Msg #326735

I agree with Grammy! I will wait 45 days then call and ask if I made a mistake in invoicing. This way I am not accusing them of any wrongdoing. I think its good business. Always be friendly and be the professional that you are! In my years of doing this..I have been stiffed only 2 times and had 1 bounced check (so far)!

Reply by desktopfull on 3/11/10 8:49pm
Msg #326743

I will not accept another closing unless they pay me upfront through my paypal account period. I don't want a check that could bounce, incurring bank charges on top of not getting paid. I don't care if I ever get another closing as to take one, be out the expenses while the company that stole my services pockets the money that they contractually owe.

I was burned by Bridgespan, Landamerica, Document Closers Inc., First American Title, & LFC. It looks like NREIS is going the way of the previously mentioned, they owe me for closings in Nov 09, have promised to mail check on 3/22/10, but sent me a 1099 MISC that stated they had paid me last year for the Nov. & Dec. closings & I'm getting a ration of garbage from the IRS because I reported on my taxes what I received and the dollar amount contradicts the 1099 Misc. Fortunately, after nagging NREIS for payment for a month NREIS finally sent me an email showing that they issued checks in Dec for payment of the Nov. & Dec. closings stating that they would be mailed on March 22, 2010, so I'm using that to prove I didn't receive the full amount reported by NREIS.

Reply by DD/OR on 3/11/10 8:40pm
Msg #326738

There were quite a few times that I had to get tough in order to get paid. I'm not as lenient as I once was. Now before I take an assignment, I ask them when they pay. I tell them upfront that I expect to be paid within 30 days. If they agree, I will work for them. If not, they can find someone else.

Reply by Heather/NH on 3/11/10 8:43pm
Msg #326741

I am curious.. How many do pay in that 30 day time frame? I would think that some would tell you that and then give you the "run around" and contine on with the normal payment cycle.

Reply by DD/OR on 3/11/10 10:30pm
Msg #326770

Since I started telling companies about the 30 day timeline, some companies have been cooperative. There was one that said they pay in 30 days and didn't. It's a chance you take. My feeling is, "If you don't tell people what you want, how can you expect to get it?" YOU either set the rules or they do. Take your choice.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/11/10 10:44pm
Msg #326773

At several occasions I have been paid within 15 days, mostly within 30 days and some 45 days ... on the 45 days my theory is that when slammed at the end of the month (remember that many work on commission in the mortgage/loan field and push hard at the end of the month and some have to keep a quota so push hard as well) so I let the 1st of the month pass and wait till the 5th before I place a call.
But in general by now I get the feeling that most pay at the end of the following month.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/11/10 8:41pm
Msg #326740

I know that some have had success in getting Paypal payments up front (they have stated on this forum), but I have not personally done so. Not that I have been lucky, as I have had a couple 'get me".

My own personal rule now is to take everything that I'm sure of and even unsure of, check here for all the latest reportings in SC and in the messages and if it is not favorable, give it back. I would rather conserve my resources than chase my money. It is working for me, although I am working a lot less than previously. I would rather be cautious in this climate, and can afford to do so vs. cannot afford to get raped.

You will find your own method to cope with this madness.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/11/10 10:46pm
Msg #326774

Are you working less by choice or less because we see a slow down? (just asking, no pun intended)

Reply by jba/fl on 3/12/10 12:50am
Msg #326786

Both. They are intertwined, not separate issues.

I live in a very saturated area where the NNA comes in almost monthly with their agenda of turning every person in the US into a SA making big bucks. With the economy as it is and Orlando being a service/tourist economy, with unemployment at record highs, those who are working as SA's are making cuts in their pricing structure and I choose not to lower my fees.

I chose to downsize my life, to streamline my expenses. I am on a cash basis, again by choice, for everything. I can do without and enjoy that freedom that comes with those choices. I know how to amuse myself having been an only child until my early teens and I don't feel deprived in any manner. I would rather do one good signing a week than 5 crappy ones where I might be chasing after my money.

I am truly in my luxury years - my family is more important than everything except me. I have learned that I can't please anyone until I please myself. I am done with 12-20 hour days chasing the almighty dollar and sacrificing family time in the process. April 21 will be 3 years when something shook my life so profoundly waking me to a new reality and a journey beyond measure. In retrospect, this slow down is good for me, keeping me focused on a new, improved lifestyle. One that is cloaked in faith and serenity and optimism.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/11/10 8:57pm
Msg #326747

I'm cautious of who I take work from. Things are leaner now

and the work I'm getting comes from my regular clients. All of them pay in 30 days or slightly beyond. I've ditched the companies I had to chase for payment. There are one or two that I require payment upfront via PayPal. It all works. I'm out for one signing from Closing Masters.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/11/10 10:47pm
Msg #326775

Re: I'm cautious of who I take work from. Things are leaner now

I never tried to ask for Paypal in advance ... how are they reacting?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/11/10 9:53pm
Msg #326765

We are caught in the timebind: SS needs to book signing,

clients impose sometimes impossible conditions, and we are businesses who extend credit caught in the middle.

How about doing what virtually every other business does when it extends credit, and get at least a quickie-credit check for SSs who call requesting credit for our goods and services? I don't know if paper/printed docs equate to goods, but you get what I mean.

For instance, Dunn & Bradstreet offer many services to help businesses assess other businesses. So do the Big Three Credit Scoring giants.

What if we started a thread to bring to the table the various options available to us to protect and grow our businesses - as creditors?

A part of that discussion could include the use of General Accounting Principles, and using cheap and easy tools like Queeksboooks, etal, charge interest after 46 days. Partner GAP with D&B for reporting and collections, and that might just put a stop to, or at least pull the reins of, fly-by-night grifters ripping off a nation-ful of we signing agents.

It involves technical noticing and reporting, and yada yada yada - but, it is what a good business establishes to survive and thrive.

I don't believe our industry is going to just evaporate. It is a great service and convenience to all parties to have us here. We just need to operate as businesses to deal with other businesses.

Our particular spice in the sauce is the face-to-face signing, and that incredible personal business that seals the deal.

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/11/10 10:50pm
Msg #326776

Couldn't agree more, Susan

I can't think of a single service business that would dream of tolerating what we put up with.
Also don't have a clue how to pull it off. We NRers are just a small drop in the bucket... and there are soooo many who have, for lack of a better word, an employEE mentality. And, I'm fairly certain that EFS probably had a good rating...until~~

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/11/10 10:52pm
Msg #326777

Re: We are caught in the timebind: SS needs to book signing,

I agree with you that our industry will not evaporate but trying to be realistic I think we will have another 2 years of *slow times*.
The Real Estate has taken a harsh hit and no matter that it is really a buyer's market in many areas, the loan issuers have made it very hard to qualify but I have seen a lot of people refinancing and wondering if those refinancing are the ones that were at the edge of *foreclosure* and we're able to cut a deal ...
As long as the banks are willing to work with the ones in troubles we will see some work.
Here in the Lehigh Valley I take time once a week to go over the houses going up at the Court House and than I keep checking and I would say an average of 20% is able to get a deal as suddenly they are still on the list but crossed off from the upcoming sale.

Just my 2 cents.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/12/10 1:07am
Msg #326788

Which brings us back to marketing and creating other

streams of income.

I.e., learn apostille work. Market to those niches. RMs are another (more and more) selective niche. Laura and others have submitted a hundred ideas for nitty-gritty marketing and entreprenurial (sp?) thrival.