Posted by Lynne/OR on 3/30/10 5:28pm
Msg #329676
Not sure what to do....
So I completed a signing last Friday in which the borrowers signed with their middle initial when the documents only stated their first and last name, and I somehow missed this. The title company called me today and requested that I go back to resign the documents and back date everything. I told him I would not back date, and he was upset because this whole problem was my fault, so I should just take care of it. I told him to go ahead and lower my fee to hire another notary who was willing to do so, I think he is unable to find another notary because he keeps calling me! Just curious how everybody else who handle this situation??
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Reply by Donna LaBelle on 3/30/10 5:33pm
Msg #329679
more is ok less is not- if it hd the borrowers middle name or initials and they didnt include them that would not be ok but it didnt have them and they did. it should be ok. I swear some title companies hire those at the bottom of the i.q. pool. I had a title company actually want me to complet a jurat for a ded of trust they actually specified a jurat. What is it that the borrowers are swearing to?
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Reply by Lynne/OR on 3/30/10 5:37pm
Msg #329683
That is what I though too!! The escrow guy is claiming the lender will not accept the docs this way, with their middle initial in their name when it's not on the docs. I'm confused...maybe something changed in the lender's requirement that I didn't know about?
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Reply by Karla/WA on 3/30/10 5:42pm
Msg #329689
Stick to your guns and know that back dating is putting your commission in jeopardy....just don't do it.
This is what I usually do when a signature is in question: I ALWAYS tell the clients that they need to sign their signature as it is noted in the signature block. I tell them it's not my role to change their signature, so if they look at the signature block and sign, it's their signature. I had a similar situation where the signature of the borrower looked like his first initial and last name. I asked him if this was theway he signed his full name and sure enough, the answer was yes. Also, his signature on his drivers license confirmed that.
It is not our role to change their signature, but to affirm that the person who is signing the document is, in fact, the correct individual.
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Reply by Notarysigner on 3/30/10 5:50pm
Msg #329691
I have them sign exactly as the names are on the documents. Funny thing though, sometimes TC and Lender spells it incorrectly (like Isaac instead of Issac). Redraw.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/30/10 5:53pm
Msg #329693
No it is not your fault Lynne. Maybe the borrowers always sign with their middle initials, making that their "legal" signature. I wouldn't sign any document any other way than with my middle initial. Companies just have to accept a "legal" signature.
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Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 3/31/10 6:36am
Msg #329758
What happened to name affidavit? Couldn't you fix problem on it?
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Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/30/10 5:55pm
Msg #329695
WHAT!?!?!
I have never heard of such a thing! I have had many borrowers "oversign," and there's never been a problem. This has always been totally acceptable (in my experience.) Can you talk to someone else at the TC about this? Can you somehow verify if this is actually coming from the lender? It sounds like you ran into a bozo at the TC.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/30/10 5:59pm
Msg #329696
Not necessarily a bozo...
I hold title as Linda J. Hubbell...but there are a lot of people out there named just "Linda Hubbell" - Linda J. Hubbell is not necessarily the same person as Linda Hubbell...
The names should be signed as the property owners hold title...period. If Linda Hubbell is the name on title then that's how the doc gets signed - not Linda J. Hubbell...Linda J. Hubbell COULD be an entirely different person.
MHO and IME
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Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/30/10 6:14pm
Msg #329698
Re: Not necessarily a bozo...
Ideally, borrowers should sign exactly as their name is printed. However, if they oversign, it's OK. Undersigning in never OK. At least that has been my exprience.
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Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/30/10 6:24pm
Msg #329704
Re: Not necessarily a bozo...
THis has always bothered me. I have a legal signature... and if somebody makes a mistake on paperwork and leaves out my middle initial, how is it my fault? My legal signature, without the middle initial is no longer my signature.
It kind of goes both ways of you think about it.
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Reply by LKT/CA on 3/30/10 6:31pm
Msg #329707
Re: Not necessarily a bozo...
<<<<I hold title as Linda J. Hubbell...but there are a lot of people out there named just "Linda Hubbell" - Linda J. Hubbell is not necessarily the same person as Linda Hubbell...>>>>
We're talking about Linda Hubbell and Linda J. Hubbell at 1234 Main Street, Orlando, Florida 01234 [or whatever the property address is] - born on Jan. 1, 1902 - they are one in the same. The name alone won't confirm you're you. Additional criteria says you're you. [unless you're not you, then who are you?] Heehee!!
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/30/10 6:42pm
Msg #329708
Re: Not necessarily a bozo...
"born on Jan. 1, 1902 "
Darn, Linda looks good for her age
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Reply by LKT/CA on 3/30/10 7:45pm
Msg #329722
Re: Not necessarily a bozo...
LOL! She does....we must get her secret....probably something from our pantry - smashed banana, peanut butter, milk and egg white facials three times a week, and yogurt baths every two weeks.
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Reply by PAW on 3/30/10 8:38pm
Msg #329732
Not necessarily ...
The Florida SOS and AG have both agreed (in 1999) that the law is very broad when it comes to the definition of a signature. Almost any mark or method is allowed as long as the signer declares that to be his/her authorized signature. For example, a legal signature may be made by a mark, a rubber stamp, or another person who is directed by the signer to sign his/her name. So, at least in Florida, whatever you declare as your legal signature is what it is. It doesn't make any difference if it doesn't match the name as printed exactly. There was a court case, can't remember it off hand, that reiterated what the SOS and AG said in 1999, but also added that it "is what the signer has consistently used previously."
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/30/10 8:44pm
Msg #329734
Re: Not necessarily ...
I'll never forget the signer that signed in Arabic symbols. But that is also how her drivers license was signed. She said she had been signing that way for years.
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Reply by jba/fl on 3/30/10 9:18pm
Msg #329738
Re: Not necessarily ...
There are a great number of people who sign squiggles - it is a 'symbol' unique to that individual. It is the same as Arabic, Chinese, Cryllic and any other number of languages - unique symbol of that individual.
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Reply by CF on 3/31/10 7:43am
Msg #329762
Just had a Yiddish signer last week. n/m
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Reply by Ronnie_WA on 3/30/10 8:01pm
Msg #329727
I have never encounted a lender that considers an "oversign" an error - never in all my years!
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Reply by janCA on 3/31/10 9:41am
Msg #329774
Lynne never stated how she ID'd the borrowers. Did they have middle initials or middle names on their DL's, if in fact, that was the source of the ID. If they always sign with their middle initial, why would they sign new documents without it? I doubt that they would. And in CA the name on the certificate would have to reflect the signature since that's the way they were ID'd, I don't know about Oregon, even if the signature is a "blurb". If the borrower states that's their legal signature, then so be it. I would also think the Signature Name Affidavit/AKA statement would take care of this and if the docs are going to be redrawn, why won't they be redrawn with the middle initial. Just sounds like laziness on the part of LO/lender to me or they just plain screwed up by not putting the middle initial on the signature line of the docs in the first place. And of course, guess who is getting the blame.
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Reply by Julie Schumer on 3/31/10 4:31pm
Msg #329836
Bottom line.....borrower has to sign as printed, no exceptions. If the borrower has a problem with signing that way, then they need to contact their lender at the table. We don't make the rules, we just need to follow them.
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Reply by thnotary_NY on 3/31/10 5:48pm
Msg #329851
Were there not any Name Affidavits in the package.? Seems that would help solve the problem, rather than re-print. IMHO
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