Posted by Salvador Avalos on 3/17/10 12:51am
Msg #327666

Pre filled acknowledgment with name and trust

I have signing for tomorrow, the property is in a trust. Normally, I have the borrower sign his signature followed by a coma and then the word trustee.

Example Signature, trustee

However, the acknowledgments including the deed of trust are filled out with the borrower's name and states the name of the trust he is the trustee of. If skill and memory serves me correct I need to cross all other information except for the name otherwise I would be verifying capacity, which notaries in California can not do. The alternative is to attach a loose certificate. Am I correct or wrong?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/17/10 12:54am
Msg #327668

Please verify exact instructions for Trust Docs with

appropriate parties.

No advice on a national public board trumps exact instructions from the proper entity.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/17/10 1:12am
Msg #327672

You are correct ...

You can notarize only the signature - and all that trustee stuff that follows needs to go. So, you can either line through it all and initial - or attach a loose leaf certificate. The problem is: will the lender accept all the cross-outs? Some can get real picky about that and they want a loose leaf - if you attach a loose leaf, they'd have to accept it, it seems. It would be nice if you could find out if they had a preference. But then you might get in a conflict with them cos they'll say that put all that verbiage in for a reason. They obviously don't understand that we cannot notarize "trustees" or any other capacity. Can you run it past the SS or TC .... but generally, I've heard most lenders would prefer a loose leaf rather than a bunch of strikeouts ...

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/17/10 2:06am
Msg #327674

I've ntarized many a Trustee. I follow state law. I'm not

grasping your 'advice,' Goldgirl/CA. "You've ~heard~ most lenders would prefer..." Really? Remember you are in CA, only one state. There are 49 others of us out here.

As far as acceptance of my notarial cert? I make sure it complies with Oregon law. The doctrine of Comity applies, Constitutionally.

There are 49 other states who have their own laws, rules, and regs. But the Notarial Commission of each state is held in like esteem and authority, under its own Constitution.

CA has its Rules and Regs, but those only apply within CA.

I repeat: CA cannot dictate what other States's Notaries do. Applicable law resides in the soil beneath one's feet.

If, in CA, one can't notarize a Trustee, then chances are the property in question will ba taken out of the Trust for the transaction, and once the transaction is complete, will be returned to the Trust.

Problem solved.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/17/10 4:01am
Msg #327675

Re: I've ntarized many a Trustee. I follow state law. I'm not

"CA has its Rules and Regs, but those only apply within CA.

I repeat: CA cannot dictate what other States's Notaries do. Applicable law resides in the soil beneath one's feet."

Susan, the original poster IS from CA. But I agree with your statement.


"If, in CA, one can't notarize a Trustee, then chances are the property in question will ba taken out of the Trust for the transaction, and once the transaction is complete, will be returned to the Trust."

Perhaps most of the time, but I've seen a good many where the property is left in the trust - and that seems to be more and more common lately. It's easier for the closing agent if the property is taken out and put back, but that creates some risk for the borrowers (if something should happen in the interim, for example). Some borrowers are smart enough to not want to take the property out of the trust and some settlement agents do know how to handle dealing with a property in a trust. It's just a bit more complicated.


I mostly agree with Goldgirl/CA. We cannot include the capacity of a signer regardless of where the document is going to be recorded. However, in the situation described, I would simply line out the unacceptable part in the certificate (i.e. the capacity of "trustee" or the name of the trust), initial it and move on. Only if it was a Provident loan, would I add a loose certificate because I know they won't allow any strike outs. What I don't agree with is the assumption that "most" lenders would prefer a loose certificate.

I think that lots of times the certificates in the package are filled out by someone who doesn't know CA notary law (I see this kind of thing fairly often even from local escrow companies), or from another state where it's acceptable to include that information. I just fix it.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/17/10 11:59am
Msg #327713

Re: I've ntarized many a Trustee. I follow state law. I'm not

I think a couple of you were over thinking it here -- Salvador's question was about the notarial cert itself, not really the trust or his role as a signing agent. CA notaries don't certify capacity --- and it doesn't matter how the individual signs the documents. All we care about, as a notary, is identifying the person. Their role is essentially meaningless when it comes to notarizing the signature.

The easiest way to handle his situation is to just line through the capacity that was pre-typed. I wouldn't initial it -- just line through.

Either that, or I'd use my Ack attachment stamp and add a loose form.

Reply by LKT/CA on 3/17/10 12:07pm
Msg #327716

Re: I've ntarized many a Trustee. I follow state law. I'm not

<<<If, in CA, one can't notarize a Trustee, then chances are the property in question will ba taken out of the Trust for the transaction, and once the transaction is complete, will be returned to the Trust.>>>

It used to be done that way but not any more. Homes remain in the trust in CA. From the loan signings I've done, borrower signs twice on certain docs, not all but certain ones - as John Q. Doe and as John Q. Doe, Trustee. As Marian said, CA notarial certs are to only have the signer's name.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/17/10 2:38pm
Msg #327735

Re: I've ntarized many a Trustee. I follow state law. I'm not

"It used to be done that way but not any more. Homes remain in the trust in CA."

I don't know where you got that information. I think it still depends on who is doing it. I've done two this month that were taken out of the trust to refi.

Also, as to how the borrower signs (a whole other subject, as Marian said), that will vary greatly from lender to lender. I've seen so many different ways of handling how the borrowers sign that I almost always call anymore unless there are clear instructions or it's from a tc/lender combo that I've dealt with before and I'm certain that's how they want it. My experience has been that there are very few, if any, absolutes when it comes to dealing with properties in a trust - except, of course, that in CA we can't include their capacity in the cert.

Reply by LKT/CA on 3/17/10 3:58pm
Msg #327764

Re: I've ntarized many a Trustee. I follow state law. I'm not

<<<I don't know where you got that information.>>>

I got it from the R.E. broker that was the instructor for the Escrow class I took at the local community college...oh about a year and a half ago. She also does the escrow for her deals - in CA, a broker can handle the escrow their *own deals* if they so choose.

<<<I think it still depends on who is doing it.>>>

Probably so....

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/17/10 11:50am
Msg #327710

You are correct Salvador

On the ACK certificate itself.... you ONLY use the name of the individual -- and nothing else. Anything else would be certifying capacity, which is against CA law.

How they sign the document is up to the lender... but the notarial certificate is your domain, and the only Title or capacity that you mention is your own (Salvador Avalos, Notary Public).