Posted by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 4:27pm
Msg #328610

Tess/PA ID/SS acceptable ... however ...

While Pennsylvania Law technically permits a Notary to accept a Social Security Card as proof of identity, the Notary *may* request a second form of ID containing a photograph or physical description.

OK, but than for the second ID is a expired DVL enough or an expired passport? There I do not seem to find the answer.
The Law states *may* request which I do believe should be done but than in that case is an expired ID valid? With the *may* it allows us to accept the SS but is it at our risk?
I can come visit you and show you my sister's SS and you will have no clue I am her if I do not show you something with a picture on it!

Reply by Tess on 3/23/10 4:37pm
Msg #328612

Re: If this what they told you on the phone? n/m

Reply by Tess on 3/23/10 4:37pm
Msg #328613

Re: IS - Sorry! n/m

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 4:48pm
Msg #328615

Re: IS - Sorry!

If you do not have the same primer as I do I can fax you the page with no problem.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 4:47pm
Msg #328614

Re: If this what they told you on the phone?

Nope, there was nobody picking up in Harrisburg and tried here at the local one but nobody there either ... I think they leave their office around 3:30PM
I called 2 notaries around here and they confirmed what it says in the book but I still want to make sure.
Go to the primer page 41 like in the middle of the page it talks about the SS being acceptable but that diligence should require to ask for a second form of ID with a pic ...now does that second ID have to be a non expired one is what I am trying to find out!
They rescheduled me for tomorrow with the same borrowers!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/23/10 4:55pm
Msg #328617

Re: If this what they told you on the phone?

If "Primer" = "NNA Primer" - toss it and rely on your SOS....

MHO

Reply by Tess on 3/23/10 4:59pm
Msg #328618

Re: Exactly n/m

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 5:25pm
Msg #328626

Re: If this what they told you on the phone?

oh ok ... but still online it seems to say the same thing.

I am just not in a mood to be scolded again tomorrow by the borrower's wife for not being able to notarize as she already told me that she had no time this week to go to the DMV. I did not mentio anything about the SS as I am not sure I can combine it with some other form which in this case would be an expired DVL.
Tess did find some interesting points that I am looking up as well.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 3/23/10 10:51pm
Msg #328670

Re: If this what they told you on the phone?

<"I am just not in a mood to be scolded again tomorrow by the borrower's wife for not being able to notarize as she already told me that she had no time this week to go to the DMV.">

First things first, while I can understand someone being upset about not being able to have her signature notarized due to her not having a valid government issued photo ID, however, hell would be hosting an ice skating party before anyone would "scold" me for their lack of organization and their mistakes. And that's from a Southerner -- we are known for being "nice" even to the point of making one sick.

Secondly, it is her loan that is not going to close due to her negligence and unwillingness to take any action to correct the situation. If she is too busy (hope she is not driving illegally) to take care of her business and it were my singing, I would be too busy to give a rats a$$, JMO.

It sounds like you have informed her what is required for you (or legally any other notary) to fulfill this order and that is where I would leave it. Of course, I would contact the hiring company and explain to them that your state laws prevent any notary from notarizing anyone's signatures for any document under the current situation and that is the only reason you would not be able to complete the order at this time. Let them know that wife is aware of what type of ID is acceptable per your state laws and the ball is in her court to act if she wants to get the loan closed. Oh, and that you would be willing to accept the order when she has the proper ID, provided you are available (or would want to deal with this BO again). JMO

I would also contact every notary in my area and discuss/remind them of acceptable forms of ID's. In hypothetical terms of course, BO's/SS/TC/Lender's privacy must not be breached. Think of it as training in case they should find themselves in a similar situation in the near future.

Earnestly seeking the information you are requesting for personal/professional growth is a good thing. However, if you are also seeking the information in order to allow (or help out) a lazy borrower, who obviously does not care, to have her signature(s) notarized legally, I would give it up for now and seek to learn later. Way too much time for too little dime.

Spend your time wisely. Remember, you only get one shot at spending it and once it's spent it's gone forever.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/23/10 5:14pm
Msg #328623

Re: If this what they told you on the phone?

"They rescheduled me for tomorrow with the same borrowers"

Is the co-borrower going to have acceptable ID?

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 5:25pm
Msg #328627

Re: If this what they told you on the phone?

nope she told me bluntly she had no time this week ... for sure do not expect scones and tea there tomorrow LOL

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/23/10 5:39pm
Msg #328631

Re: If this what they told you on the phone?

Obviously the loan can't be that important to her or she would make the time to renew her license.

Hmmm one scenario (probably farfetched <g> husband doesn't want wife to know about loan, so husband gets girlfriend to impersonate wife, husband obviously has access to wife's SS card and "borrows" it to give to girlfriend.

In other words how can one be certain that the person with the social security card is actually the person to whom it was issued.

Reply by Tess on 3/23/10 5:01pm
Msg #328619

Re: This is interesting!

On PA PHOTO IDENTIFICATION CARD
APPLICATION FOR CHANGE/CORRECTION/REPLACEMENT

It says:


“I certify under penalty of law that all information given on this application is true and correct. I hereby authorize the Social Security Administration to release to the Department of Transportation Information concerning my
Social Security Identification Number for the purpose of Identification. If using a Messenger Service, I hereby
authorize the Department to furnish them with my driving record for the purpose of processing this form.”

AND

“• The Department is required to obtain the Licensee's Social Security Number, height and eye color under the provisions of
Sections 1510(a) and/or 1609(a)(4) of the Pennsylvania Vehicle Code. This information will be used as identifying information
in an attempt to minimize driver license fraud. The Social Security Number is not part of your public driver's record. Federal
law permits the use of the Social Security Number by state licensing officials for purposes of identification.”

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 5:28pm
Msg #328629

Re: This is interesting!

indeed very interesting and adding more confusion to the matter LOL
check your pm

Reply by LKT/CA on 3/23/10 5:02pm
Msg #328620

<<<OK, but than for the second ID is a expired DVL enough or an expired passport? There I do not seem to find the answer.>>>

In the absence of clear direction and after exhausting efforts to get solid answers, I would mirror an entity/organization/institution with higher ID requirements - i.e. financial institutions or law enforcement. Is an expired ID acceptable to the bank? Is an expired ID acceptable to the police?
No. Given the risk and liability we hold, I believe it is our duty and responsibility to hold to the highest of standards and requirements and that means accepting only current ID, which is customary and routine in all other walks of life.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 5:27pm
Msg #328628

you are correct ... banks wouldn't take a SS with an expired DVL or State ID.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 5:50pm
Msg #328632

and in the end

I am calling the TC and they can find someone else ... not in a mood for a second scold and if they want their mortage to close well she will need to move her toosh!

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 3/23/10 10:09pm
Msg #328665

Re: and in the end

Actually, the word is tush!

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/24/10 6:52am
Msg #328684

Re: Shosana

actually *toosh* is acceptable as well

toosh (plural tooshes)

Alternative spelling of tush.; the buttocks
They shake their tooshes.

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 3/23/10 6:13pm
Msg #328634

In PA you are expected to use due diligence to ascertain you are notarizing the signature of the person whose name appears in the document. The SOS is saying, I think, that you are trusted to verify to YOUR satisfaction that the person appearing before you is the same one whose name you're notarizing. I would think that using a SS card and other forms of ID, Credit card, utility bill, checking account etc etc one could determine that the right person is appearing before you. There will always be those who will try to take advantage of you as in having a girlfriend/boyfriend pose as a spouse. I personally would not accept an SS card unless there was some type of photo ID I could see along with it. Even an expired DL. Again, in PA (probably nowhere else) you are to verify ID to your satisfaction. Just be sure to CYA

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/23/10 7:07pm
Msg #328645

"in PA (probably nowhere else) you are to verify ID to your satisfaction. Just be sure to CYA"

Same holds true in NY. It's pretty much up to the notary's discretion as far as verifying ID, and we aren't given any guidance on what we should use - just that it must be "satisfactory evidence". I have no problem accepting an expired DL as long as the name, photo, and signature on it match the person sitting in front of me.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/23/10 7:45pm
Msg #328646

*I have no problem accepting an expired DL as long as the name, photo, and signature on it match the person sitting in front of me. *

I've always wondered why an expired DL was not accepted by some states. Is it easier to fake an expired one or what?

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 8:14pm
Msg #328649

LOL ... sorry couldn't resist ...

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/24/10 12:49am
Msg #328677

Brenda, you know as well as the rest of us.

Your identity expires with your drivers license.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 8:16pm
Msg #328651

Oh my be careful to say that or some will say you break the Law!!!!!

Here in PA I cannot as the documents ask for issue and expiration ... but I will not say that the rule is not plain stupid ... Pic, Sig and Name are on the valid and expired one!
Go figure

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/24/10 10:27am
Msg #328721

I wouldn't be breaking NY law, and that's all that matters to me.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 3/23/10 10:42pm
Msg #328669

Bottom Line

In PA SS is acceptable, IF you are happy with it. Does the signature match? It is your choice apparantly and if you are sure that the person appearing before you is the one on the docs you are OK.
At this point in time it appears that you are not comfortable notarizing these docs. You do have the option to refuse.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 3/23/10 10:53pm
Msg #328671

You do have the option to refuse -- Agree! n/m

Reply by Tess on 3/23/10 11:47pm
Msg #328674

Re: Where did you see that in our laws??? n/m

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 3/24/10 8:23am
Msg #328691

Re: Where did you see that in our laws??? see msg#328571 n/m

Reply by PAW on 3/24/10 10:13am
Msg #328716

Section 12.1 of the PA Revised Notary Public Law

... states (in part):

... "satisfactory evidence" means the reliance on the presentation of a **current**, government issued identification card ...