Posted by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 12:29pm
Msg #328537

What would you do in this case

I am waiting for a call back.

Had a closing this late morning and the lender had shipped all the docs to the borrower and when I got there they told me it would go fast as they already had signed everything before I got there including the ID Affidavits ...

Left a message for Lender and TC ...

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 3/23/10 12:35pm
Msg #328538

Did they send them 2 sets of docs (BO copy)?

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 3/23/10 12:37pm
Msg #328540

I would have flipped thru the package, making sure no initials or signatures were missed.
When I came to a signature to be notarized, I would ask if they signed it, if it was a jurat, I would have them swear/affirm, and then have them re-sign using their copies, (or if not available), have them resign the already signed jurat pages, with a note back to title explaining why 2 signatures of same person on certain pages. As long as I ID them, and their signatures match what they signed. I would have been fine to proceed as described above.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 3/23/10 12:49pm
Msg #328545

I agree with Sheila, I would have done the same.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 3/23/10 12:56pm
Msg #328547

Me too n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/23/10 2:59pm
Msg #328590

Dittoes. n/m

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 1:10pm
Msg #328550

nope no second copy and the reason why I did not do any of the above is that her DVL is expired otherwise I would have proceeded. A copy of the ID's is required so ... Lender is faxing me a new set of docs.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 1:12pm
Msg #328551

and told him about the expired DVL and said was ok as long as her pic and addy matched her.

Reply by Tess on 3/23/10 1:19pm
Msg #328553

Re:Corrine, please check our state laws on expired ID. n/m

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 1:56pm
Msg #328573

Re: Re:Corrine, please check our state laws on expired ID.

Oh I did .... no way it is acceptable

Reply by Philip Johnson on 3/23/10 1:21pm
Msg #328555

Are you sure he is right on this? n/m

Reply by trnsa_IL on 3/23/10 1:24pm
Msg #328557

I just looked at PA handbook, and it says "current Government issued ID" for notarizations. It may be okay for LO or TC or SS, but not okay for you based on the handbook.

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/23/10 1:37pm
Msg #328561

" It may be okay for LO or TC or SS, but not okay for you based on the handbook."

It really blows my mind that this even has to be explained to notaries.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 2:13pm
Msg #328577

It does not have to be explained to Notaries but to Lenders that would do anything to get it over with.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 3/23/10 1:48pm
Msg #328567

First the laws of her state and earlier the laws of the

country by refusing to fill out the Census. Very questionable. hmmmm

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 2:15pm
Msg #328578

Re: First the laws of her state and earlier the laws of the

I filled in my census ... happy?

And no I did not break the Laws of my State, but got scolded for refusing to notarize.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/23/10 1:25pm
Msg #328558

"and told him about the expired DVL and said was ok as long as her pic and addy matched her"

lenders etc will tell you anything to get the job done! Check your state laws on expired ID's

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 2:42pm
Msg #328588

oh I did as I was pretty sure it was not acceptable but did doublecheck on it and no the co-borrower needs to get a new State's ID or DVL that is current.

Reply by meganPA on 3/23/10 2:52pm
Msg #328589

Can you possibly hold the package (without notarizing it) under the condition that the borrower gets her ID renewed during recission and faxes you a copy? If so, you notarize. If not, you send the package back unnotarized. Don't know if TC would be OK with it, but just an idea.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/23/10 4:21pm
Msg #328607

Megan, this is acceptable to you from a notary viewpoint? n/m

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/23/10 1:43pm
Msg #328565

Cawest doesn't seem to have much respect for the law

judging by her last several posts.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 2:08pm
Msg #328574

Re: and what comes from Robert

is taken with a grain of salt by many in here

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/23/10 3:43pm
Msg #328605

Or a huge salt lick n/m

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 4:49pm
Msg #328616

Re: Or a huge salt lick

yuck

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/23/10 2:16pm
Msg #328579

Re: Cawest doesn't seem to have much respect for the law

I read her posts. She says she didn't do the signing as the Drivers License wasn't acceptable.
She mentioned that the LO said it was OK - but she didn't do the signing.

How does that compute to she hasn't much respect for the law????

If she had no respect for the law, she would have gone ahead with the signing. As it is she probably won't get paid for the time wasted!

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 4:33pm
Msg #328611

Re: Oh and Robert

before accusing one you should look up that specific State and it's Law.

Now just a simple question ... can you use the Seal of Florida on a website? Perhaps you could look that one up for me? TYVM in adavnce! (You could ask that Attorney's office where you work)

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/23/10 10:15pm
Msg #328667

Re: Oh and Robert

No you can not use the state seal without the permission of the appropriate authorities.

Are you saying that I have the state seal on my website? If I am please notify me so I may remove it.

Reply by dickb/wi on 3/23/10 4:22pm
Msg #328608

ditto...would have done the same....... n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/23/10 1:21pm
Msg #328554

So much for speed huh? I would first ask the SS what they wanted and if it was O.K. to over sign?

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/23/10 1:31pm
Msg #328559

Then I would turn them in if they asked me to do it! Geezh

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 3/23/10 1:54pm
Msg #328571

OK...here's what the PA Notary handbook says

........the officer notarizing the instrument shall know through personal knowledge or have satisfactory evidence that the person appearing before the notary is the person described in and who is executing the instrument........."Satisfactory evidence" means the reliance on the presentation of a current, government-issued identification card bearing a photograph **OR**
signature **OR** physical description **AND** serial or identification number **OR** the oath or affirmation of a credible witness who is personally known to the notary and who personally knows the individual.

We've discussed this before on this board and that fact that a soc security card is a government issued identification card with a 'serial' number makes it adequate ID to satisfy PA's regs. I have personally verified this by phone with the Secretary's office. Now, before you get your panties all in a bunch, I never said I approved of it....just that PA says it's OK. Never said that I flew that way either...so don't take it out on me.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 2:12pm
Msg #328575

and here is the bottom line

No matter I received a new set of docs there is no way I will do the job.
The lender claims that the expired ID is OK however PA *says* no.
I told the borrower to go down to the DMV and get a new DVL or ID (cost 26 dollars and it takes maybe 10 minutes and you get it right away)
Got scolded by the borrower but do not care to much ... After finding all the docs signed before I got there and that includes the Affidavits (oh yes they we're filled in all I had to do was signing them).
The borrower said she was doing me a favor! Oh well

Reply by Tess on 3/23/10 2:17pm
Msg #328580

Re: Call the state and see what they say about using the SS

card. I got a different answer then above! Let us know what they say, please.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 2:20pm
Msg #328582

Re: Call the state and see what they say about using the SS

Will call them but I am pretty sure that the State of PA requires a valid ID with all the requirements that come with it.

Reply by meganPA on 3/23/10 2:59pm
Msg #328591

Re: Call the state and see what they say about using the SS

Actually you might be OK with just the SS card...

Per the PA handbook..."satisfactory evidence means the reliance on the presentation of a current, government-issed identification card bearing a photograph OR signature OR physical description and serial or identification number"

does not need to be photo ID if there is a signature on it and serial #

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 3:35pm
Msg #328602

Re: Call the state and see what they say about using the SS

tired to call them but no answer ... will try again in the morning just to get an answer ... by now the borrowers must hate me ( while they still couldn't understand as of why they should have waited for me to sign and also as of why they should not have filled in some portion that I was supposed to write in - I am pretty sure they were thinking doing me a favor)

but yes I read that as well about serial number and signature and the *OR*

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/23/10 3:39pm
Msg #328604

Re: TESS

will try to call them back in the morning and pass you the answer on as you are in PA as well.

Reply by Tess on 3/23/10 4:27pm
Msg #328609

Re: Thanks! I am interested in how they word their answer. n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 3/23/10 5:36pm
Msg #328630

<<<Had a closing this late morning and the lender had shipped all the docs to the borrower and when I got there they told me it would go fast as they already had signed everything before I got there including the ID Affidavits ...>>>

Typically at my signings, the borrowers are reviewing the HUD while I enter their ID info in my journal. In this case, I'd ID them and then review the docs page by page to ensure all signatures and initials were present. I would ask the borrowers to verbally acknowledge that the signatures are indeed theirs and for affidavits or other docs requiring a jurat, the borrower would re-sign those. I would also inform the borrowers that any pages removed from the overnight shipment that have not been signed and returned could possibly delay funding of their loan.

If their ID was expired and not issued within 5 years, per CA SOS rules and borrowers had no other gov't issued SOS acceptable ID, that would stop the appt with a call to the hiring entity.
The lender or TC can choose to accept expired ID but they do not dictate my duties as I am accountable to the CA SOS for the office I hold.

There is no debate or argument with TCs, lenders, loan officers or anyone - I inform them of what IS and there's an inflection in my tone that tells them I'm not interested in their feedback or opinion of what IS when it comes to notarial law. The CA SOS dictates the rule and that's that.

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/23/10 6:26pm
Msg #328636

Re: AKA Independent contractor n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 3/23/10 6:40pm
Msg #328640

Re: AKA Independent contractor

James, you have just proven that it is not a myth that a woman will say the same thing as man but use 30 times more words to say it. However, I may have just used 300 words to your two - heeheehee!!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/23/10 6:49pm
Msg #328643

That's just plain hilarious. n/m