Posted by pjc on 3/22/10 5:28pm
Msg #328424

simple, baffling question

In the past, when the Borrowers ID address and address on loan docs don't match, I have asked to see something else that verifies that the borrower does, in fact, live at that address. Is this correct procedure . . . overkill? This would be in a situation where the loan is for the address where the borrower supposedly lives, not on a property elsewhere. Thanks

Reply by PAW on 3/22/10 5:35pm
Msg #328426

For a refi on the primary residence, the DL address 'should' match the property address. There are exceptions though. As a signing agent, you should, imo, ask for something like a utility bill that shows both the name of the 'owner' and the address of the property. So, imo, it is not overkill, just being prudent and doing an exceptional job for the lender, title company, broker, LO, and closer.

There are many situations though, when it is not the primary residence. Then things may not match up. As long as the documents bare out the borrower and the property, and things seems to fit logically without hesitation and 'over proving' they own the property, I would worry about it too much.

Reply by Patti Corcoran on 3/22/10 5:43pm
Msg #328429

Thank you both. I feel better that I am following best practices.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 3/22/10 5:36pm
Msg #328427

If you are meeting them at the home, that is also the property address of the loan you are closing, why would you question that they really live there, unless some other red flag is causing you to wonder?
I do not think this scenario is uncommon. People are often slow to update their update their DL to reflect the newer current address.
Beyond asking them if they have a change of address on record with the DMV, I would not go farther, unless something seems off. ( In CA, DMV gives you a flimsy piece of paper with your change of address on it, that you are supposed to tack on to the back of your DL, sometimes they get lost).

Reply by Maureen_nh on 3/22/10 5:47pm
Msg #328430

I usually ask for verification of address if it doesn't match. Often people use PO Boxes and the DMV doesn't put an address on the back. No one has ever objected.
And then you might get military personel with an in state license and an out of state address. The first time that happened, it threw me for a loop.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/22/10 6:26pm
Msg #328440

I wouldn't call it overkill, but it's not a necessary part of the ID process (unless your state has a law to that effect, and I don't see how that would be possible in general notary work so why would there be such a law?). It could probably be considered "going the extra mile" for your clients - the SS, TC, lender or whoever - and protecting their interests. Most would probably appreciate that, but what happens if they can't provide something to show that the address in the loan docs is actually where they live, and you can't contact anyone to give you guidance? Do you adjourn the signing and deal with the fallout from that decision the next day?

There is always the potential for fraud in these situations and you definitely should be attuned to that, but as others have posted there are a number of valid reasons why the addresses won't match. My take would be that you might ask for additional proof of residence, and if you aren't able to get it you should just proceed and alert your client to the discrepancy when you return the docs - let them make the decision on what to do.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/22/10 6:32pm
Msg #328442

They'll see the discrepancy when they get the package back with the copy of the DL -

In loan packages AND in general notary work, IMO I verify ID - residence does not prove ID - photo, description and signature do. Many of my signers use a P.O. Box on their license .... okay...their business, not mine - as long as their ID is current and valid then it's good with me - I do not verify residence. In the case of a loan package, that's up to TC/Lender prior to my getting to the table or afterwards, upon receipt of the package and copy of DL, if they wish.

MHO

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/22/10 6:44pm
Msg #328448

I have done signings for police officers, where the address on their DL is the address of the police dept.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/22/10 7:18pm
Msg #328455

Same with judges, address is courthouse. n/m

Reply by PAW on 3/22/10 7:16pm
Msg #328454

>>> ... but what happens if they can't provide something to show that the address in the loan docs is actually where they live, and you can't contact anyone to give you guidance? Do you adjourn the signing and deal with the fallout from that decision the next day? <<<

Absolutely not. But, I certainly would make a note of the discrepancy in my closing report. It isn't a show stopper in my book, and may just be a weird situation, but I still would add a note to my report.

Reply by CF on 3/22/10 7:35pm
Msg #328459

This is outside the scope of a notary or a signing agent. I have many times during my life....not changed an address on my DL for many months. The lines at the Secretary of State are just about as appealing to me as getting a root canal. My address on my DL has nothing to with my identity.

Any notary doing this would definitely being overstepping their commission. A lot of people travel to the notary....what good does the address do at that point?

Another big time waster and someone thinking that they are policing the process. There is nothing more annoying than a person thinking they have more power than what they do.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 3/22/10 7:49pm
Msg #328462

I agree, CF. I don't care what address is on the ID - people move all the time in this military community. Active duty military are allowed to keep the ID from their home state of record. I focus on the name, birth year, etc, to ID the person. I may be wrong, but I don't think the DMV requires proof of address when you obtain your ID. I just checked the VA DMV website and you can change your address online. For me, the address on the ID is not an issue. Military ID and I'm pretty sure passports do not contain an address. No way would I make an issue of the address not matching the docs.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 3/22/10 9:32pm
Msg #328479

In IL if you don't have to take a vision or written test and have a good driving record, you don't have to renew at the DMV. You can do it by mail or online. You recieve a sticker to put on the back. The front of the DL will be expired, but the extension of 4 years is on the back. So, some people could move a couple times in 8 years and not change their address. Or, what about the couple who just married and one or the other moved into the house and has not yet changed his/her address. There could be many scenarios.
Adddress difference would never be a cause for me not to sign. If the home looks lived in, pics on wall etc etc I don't question it at all. I too feel this is beyond the scope of our job. Now give me docs with a different name on them than the ID, then we've got a problem. That is our job.

Reply by Robert/FL on 3/23/10 7:24am
Msg #328492

Passports don't contain addresses, FYI... n/m

Reply by PAW on 3/23/10 8:08am
Msg #328493

I think too many of us are reading too much into the original post. The way I read it, it has nothing to do with the notarial aspect of the signing, but with the signing agent part. Many lenders do require proof of ownership of property somewhere in the process. Using a D/L that matches the property address is usually sufficient. But there are many times, and for legitimate reasons, the address on the D/L does not match the property address. Thus other forms of tying the two together are required. Granted, this is not the job of a signing agent to actively pursue the proof, unless specifically told to in the instructions, but I do think if nothing is available to tie the borrower and the property, then it should be mentioned to the title/lender. Not to make a fuss over it, but as a casual observance. The same as if you went to a home that was being refinanced, and you notice a "Sale Pending/For Sale" sign in the front yard.

Florida requires that you update your address information on your drivers license within ten days of moving. A new ID will be issued showing the new address. Quite often with purchases, the buyer's driver's license already shows the correct address. Further, in Florida, one cannot obtain Homestead exemption and protection without a valid Florida driver's license or identification card AND proof of ownership of the property, e.g. recorded deed, AND some type of document showing the new owner's name and the property address. For purchases, this is usually accomplished with the signed HUD and/or a signed buyer's contract, when the Florida driver's license does not show the property address.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 3/23/10 8:39am
Msg #328496

PAW, I understand and agree with what you are saying, but the time for the lender or TC to verify this information is not at the very end of the process on the day the docs are signed. If verification/proof of residence is an issue for them, they need to obtain verification prior to the closing appointment. I can't recall ever being asked in my instructions to verify that the address on the ID is the same as the property and if not, to ask for additional proof. On a non-owner occupied, the address won't match either. Are we supposed to ask for proof that they own the property, such as a rental contact in which they are the landlord? I feel this is way outside the scope of my duties.

Reply by PAW on 3/23/10 10:23am
Msg #328518

The context of my posts have been where the borrowers are signing on their primary residence, not vacation/second home or rental properties. (It is very easy to determine whether or not the PIQ is not their primary residence by the inclusion of certain documents in the package.)

I have been asked, a few times, to obtain stips that were missed or not previously requested, when doing remote closings. Usually, the borrower simply provides a copy of their driver's license or a copy of a utility bill. I agree that all this should be handled prior to closing, and 99% of the time it usually is. But there are always the exceptions.

Reply by JandB on 3/23/10 1:09pm
Msg #328549

It is done before you get there

I used to be a loan processor. Part of my job was to satisfy the underwriter that the borrower actually lived at the subjuct property. There are numerous public records that are used to verify the borrowers residence. I'll ask for an update to the license so I can note it in my log but that's as far as I go. The title company will also check public records. If it is a problem, the post close department will ask for further verification when they get the file back and see the license does not match.