Posted by Jeff Ortler on 5/6/10 12:43pm
Msg #335161

DD/OR - Escrow Quick

The state of Oregon has a website set up for the blind.. I am copying your post and emailing it to their discrimation center and copying the SOS as well..

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/6/10 12:52pm
Msg #335166

Now THAT is despicable

Just because somebody is blind, doesn't mean that anything that doesn't go in their favor is discrimination. There is simply no reason that DD should have to sit there while the entire loan package was read. They could have sent the package in advance. They could have rescheduled the appointment with DD after the package was read and paid her for 2 trips. For it to be discriminatory, you'd have to believe that she'd be willing to sit there and allow a sighted borrower to read the entire package before signing.

What you're doing is no better than the race baiting that people like Al Sharpton do. Disabled people certainly deserve reasonable accommodation; what you're suggesting DD should have done is way beyond the realm of "reasonable".

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/6/10 1:00pm
Msg #335169

I agree. n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 5/6/10 1:23pm
Msg #335184

Re: I agree.

Better report me too, Jeff. Read my post below.

Reply by cawest/PA on 5/6/10 1:04pm
Msg #335170

and in the main time why don't you link your name ... as right now all you seem to be is a coward hidding and lurking in a dark corner ... but keep in mind : what goes around comes around ...

Reply by DD/OR on 5/6/10 1:16pm
Msg #335179

Message Deleted

This message has been deleted by a forum moderator.

Reason: Author Request - Special Exception

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 1:18pm
Msg #335182

You can try to backpedal and come up with other

reasons for refusing... but it all comes down to the fact that the signer is blind. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Reply by Riley/FL on 5/6/10 1:24pm
Msg #335185

Re: You can try to backpedal and come up with other

That's BS, Robert, and you know it. From reading all the posts, I conclude that it was an unreasonable request from the title co. You seem to look for reasons to get on your high horse.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/6/10 1:30pm
Msg #335187

Re: You can try to backpedal and come up with other

While there are "2 sides..." there are also many ways to skin a cat, apparently.

Seriously... if you do this long enough you get to start thinking outside the box. Disabled people have the right to accomodation. That doesn't mean this notary was supposed to actually read everything --- but she SHOULD HAVE offered or tried to come up with a solution instead of just outright refusing.

As I said below, how difficult would it have been to contact the company and let them know this person needed extra accomodation because of a disability? Get permission to leave a copy of the documents so they can review them on their own time and then offer to return in a day or two.

Seriously... that would have solved the whole thing.

Now, this notary has opened herself up to a disability discrimination lawsuit -- and that's a FEDERAL law, not state.

My husband is disabled as the result of a terrible car accident... and he's also about 70% blind. So maybe I'm just more aware of the needs of the disabled, who knows?

But I tell you, if it were somebody acting like that notary did in my home? I'd be at a lawyer's office right away looking at suing the escrow company AND the notary for disability discrimination.

Use your heads, people... think outside the box and come up with solutions or look for alternatives rather than be buttheads adding to the problem.

DD... I hope that you accurately recorded the reason for refusal in your journal. After all... that's what your handbook states you're supposed to do when you refuse a notarization.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/6/10 1:36pm
Msg #335191

Agree with this post n/m

Reply by John/CT on 5/6/10 1:42pm
Msg #335194

Well-said, Marian ... as usual. n/m

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 5/6/10 1:49pm
Msg #335198

Other than Tourette Syndrome...

...I don't know of any physical disorder or disability that gives one the right to be a jerk.

Blind or not, no signer has the right to expect a signing agent to sit there while he or she gets a 183-page closing packet read to them, after a title company has withheld the information that the signer is blind -- and after the signer has shown no inclination to cooperate by using the three-day rescission period for its intended purpose. That's so far beyond the realm of reasonable that it is utterly laughable.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/6/10 2:00pm
Msg #335213

Re: Other than Tourette Syndrome...

I'm surprised at you..aren't you aware that it's always the notary's fault? When I first start I was told, "don't do any favors because it will come back and bite you know where...

This issue about what DD did could go on forever but I honestly think, the focus should be on the LO and/or TC and how to prevent this from happening to all of us in the future. Not DD's choice.

Of course, it's always the notary's fault.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 2:04pm
Msg #335216

The notary is and should be held to a higher standard

The notary is a public official, public servant, and officer of the state. The LO and people at the TC are employees. They only have to answer to their boss. We have to answer to the state.

The TC and LO don't care if you follow proper notary procedure or not. They want their docs signed and they want notary stamps on them. As a public official we have higher responsibilities than that and sometimes human kindness and personal standards should come before the money.

Don't you hate it when employees of government offices keep passing you off to another department, and say "That is not my job"? Well that is what DD did. She said "It is not my job to accomodate this blind man and therefore I won't".

Sometimes being a notary requires you to go beyond the bare minimums established by law. Their are unwritten ethical rules that we have to follow in order to maintain our integrity as state officers.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 5/6/10 3:58pm
Msg #335262

And you are not the one to establish that standard, Robert

I would not sit while a *sighted* signer read or had someone read to them 183 pages of real estate closing documents. The fact that the signer was blind does not change the equation: Provision has been made for the contingency that the signer -- handicap or no handicap -- might want to closely inspect the documents. The signer's refusal to exercise that right put the responsibility on him for an aborted closing, whether he could see it or not.

I don't know what sensitivity the signing agent brought to bear; I wasn't there. I don't know whether the signing could have been salvaged. What I DO know, based on her account, is that the agent did not discriminate against someone because they had a disability, and to refer her to an enforcement agency because she terminated the signing is way out of line.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/6/10 6:11pm
Msg #335296

Re: The notary is and should be held to a higher standard

"Sometimes being a notary requires you to go beyond the bare minimums established by law"

And I am sure that DD would have been willing just to go over the docs that needed notarization. However she was there as a 'signing agent" and the loan docs are not covered by notary laws, only the ones that need notarization.

What if she had several other appointments after that one? Should she have cancelled them to accomodate this one borrower??? As a signing agent it really isn't her job to read every document to the signer.
Company that hired her should have let her know when they contacted her that the borrower was blind and would probably need extra time.

Personally, I would have called the company to see if the problem could be solved by leaving borrowers copies with the signer for his friend to read to him and arranging to go back later to complete the signing. But that is a personal decision.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/6/10 2:05pm
Msg #335219

Re: Other than Tourette Syndrome...

Agreed.

The Escrow company needs a good swift kick in accommodating their customers AND informing their contractors.


In this cases like this, though... the notary can also be the one to save the day. How often do some loans come down to the notary? TONS of them. I think we all have stories where it was our attitude that made or broke a signing, our resourcefulness and our ability to get something done.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/6/10 5:14pm
Msg #335283

Totally agree, Marian & Hugh. n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/6/10 2:02pm
Msg #335214

Re: Other than Tourette Syndrome...

I agree, Hugh... but that's not the impression I've got of the situation. TO me, it sounds like DD was upset that she wasn't told the borrower was blind and she pitched a fit and walked out.

Plus, her story seems to have changed. At first she said that SHE was supposed to read it all, then said the roommate/friend would read it.

That's no reason to "walk away" from a job -- somebody who was thinking clearly and not uncomfortable or upset would have come up with a solution rather than walking out.

I'd be a jerk, too, if the person walking in to my home copped an attitude about the time.


I still think it all could have been solved easily by offering to return later when they'd had time to read everything.

How hard is it to say, "I understand we need to take some time here, and because I wasn't notified of the need for accommodation, I'm going to leave these here so you two can review them. What do you say I come back tomorrow at 7 so we can sign everything?"

Reply by SueW/Tn on 5/6/10 2:26pm
Msg #335236

Re: Other than Tourette Syndrome...

I'm agreeing with Marian here, DD has had more than her share of problems with BO's that have either kicked her out or she walked out, this isn't the first time. She needs to polish up her people skills. She's probably walked out of more homes than I've been in simply because of knee jerk reactions. There's nearly always a better solution other than adjourning, while there have been times I would have liked to I always tried to find a win/win outcome. It is what it is and it would have been more of a challenge to have been the one to resolve the issue rather than add your name to the list of those that couldn't/wouldn't think out of the box.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/6/10 6:16pm
Msg #335297

Very well said, HughNationsSAA - completely agree n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/6/10 2:17pm
Msg #335232

Just out of curiosity , Robert, when you were in school..

did the other kids beat you up a lot???

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 2:25pm
Msg #335235

No, Bob. Considering that

I was already a public officer, a legal assistant, lived on my own and owned my own car by the age of 18, I was far too "ahead" of others my age. Cocky? Maybe. But no one on this board can deny that I'm knowledgeable in notary law and know what I'm talking about.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/6/10 4:16pm
Msg #335268

That's ok, Robert. Did you know that all 18 year olds think

they know it all. LOL

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/6/10 4:28pm
Msg #335273

Too true Marilyn:) n/m

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 7:50pm
Msg #335312

So do all middle-aged women, IMO n/m

Reply by John/CT on 5/6/10 9:04pm
Msg #335338

And, maybe right more times than we are ;>) n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/6/10 5:19pm
Msg #335284

Nobody is impressed with you being a public officer

Lets face it, becoming a notary is slightly harder than passing a driver's test. And in some states it's actually far easier.

And I bought my own car, with my own money, at age 16. Never once has it occurred to me to use that as proof of my own awesomeness. I also put myself through college while working full time at a job that allowed me to pay cash as I went along so I graduated with a BA and no debt, and it provided me with health insurance, a retirement plan, dental coverage, and lots of sick leave and vacation time.

So, I guess compared to me, you suck.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/6/10 5:25pm
Msg #335285

Re: No, Bob. Considering that

"But no one on this board can deny that I'm knowledgeable in notary law and know what I'm talking about"

But no-one on this board, unless they personally know you, can say you are knowledgeable in notary law and know what you are talking about.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/6/10 5:56pm
Msg #335293

Re: No, Bob. Considering that

That's like saying, "I know more about going to the moon then anyone." The fact is, until someone invents a new type propulsion system, that's all you'll ever be able to do.

On scale of 1 to 10, I think knowing notary law as a factor in this life is in the twenties maybe thirties!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/7/10 2:36am
Msg #335374

But that's not the issue...

"no one on this board can deny that I'm knowledgeable in notary law and know what I'm talking about."

There's a fallacy in your logic here, though, Robert. The situation that is being discussed has to do with a lot more than notarizing signatures. It mostly has to do with getting a loan package signed - something you've admitted you don't do. In that arena, I think it's fair to say that you don't know what you're talking about.

I've been trying to read through most of the posts on this event and I think Sylvia best summed up my thoughts on this. What was being asked of DD/OR went way beyond notarizing. While I hope I would have handled the situation differently, I think I would have felt somewhat betrayed by my client had I walked into a situation like that with no warning. It showed an appalling lack of consideration or respect to expect someone to walk into a signing situation that would likely take at least twice as long as a typical loan signing - especially after prohibiting initial contact with the borrower. But what else is new, I guess...

On the other hand, I think Marian made some excellent suggestion about how it could have been handled better. I've done a signing for a legally blind person before and it was a completely different experience. This lady was amazing! I was there for several minutes before I was even aware that she had a vision problem. Fortunately, she and her husband had already had a chance to review the documents. With just a few adjustments, it was a pretty normal signing otherwise.

Finally, back to you Robert, a comment about your statement that we are first and foremost public servants. Yes, we have an obligation to the state to conduct ourselves in accordance with state laws. But for many - if not most - of us, this isn't something we do as part of a job for which we collect a full time salary. This is our occupation - and our livelihood - and we are first and foremost in business to make a profit! Last I checked, there is no law against that - unless you count the incredibly low notary fees some states allow. But that's a whole other subject!

Reply by John/CT on 5/6/10 1:49pm
Msg #335199

Now, Jeff, please tell us why are you doing this?? n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 5/6/10 2:09pm
Msg #335222

That is really mean-spirited, Jeff. Don't you realize that

notaries come here to vent frustrations? I can't believe you'd use that post to do what you intend to do. It would be up to the borrower to make that complaint, not you. You weren't there, don't know what really happened, and are not a party to this transaction. In fact, if the borrower is contacted, IMO, it could be a violation of GLBA.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/6/10 5:26pm
Msg #335286

Jeff, here's hoping your actions are an exercise in

futility - which I believe to be the case.

(Inserting yourself into this, without any idea of the actual facts, but merely a rant on a public forum, is ballsy, there Bub.)

Sheesh.

Reply by John/CT on 5/6/10 6:26pm
Msg #335303

Or, maybe the lack thereof ... not linking to his profile. n/m