Posted by Robert/FL on 5/12/10 6:27am
Msg #335986

Debate on illegal notary protests (long)

I came across a Youtube video of another tax-evading foreclosure-fighting nut job trying to convince people to use this fraduluent "notary protest" method to get out of a debt. Over the past few days we have had somewhat of a debate, and I thought I'd post it here, if nothing else but for entertainment purposes. The guy just sounds so crazy. I am sorry to get so riled up over this, but it makes me absolutely sick to hear of these crazy government-protesting men trying to coerce unknowing notaries into getting involved in these illegal transactions. I have reported every notary I have ever come across who I know to have gotten involved in this and I intend to continue doing so. This is illegal, fraduluent, and not an authorized duty in any state.



Robert: "These notary protests are ILLEGAL and notaries have been thrown in PRISON for engaging in this type of activity. The only type of protest notaries can perform are certificates that state that a CHECK or PROMISSORY NOTE was dishonored due to NONPAYMENT. It has nothing to do with sending letters and "defaulting" on "non-response".

Loonie: "Interesting that I have done a great deal of research and then had that research researched by no less than 6 top notch researchers and all verified the information. Also interesting that we have been doing these all over the country for 6 years without a problem. How is it that you know more about this than all of the experts who researched it and the thousands who have used the process? Blessings, the Trustee"

Robert: "Because I AM a notary, and I know my powers and duties. Your "researchers" have twisted the UCC laws into what they WANT it to mean. The entire thing is fraudulent, if you look at older notary handbooks back when protests were common things, you will see pretty clearly that protests have nothing to do with this type of "presentment" or "dishonor due to non-response/non-performance". The notaries getting involved in this illegal "presentment work" are naive and don't know what they're doing. And by the way, notaries have been thrown in jail for getting involved in this, and just last month I reported a notary to North Carolina authorities for doing this and she had her commission revoked because of it. So no, just because you think in your obscure twisted laws that these MINISTERIAL officers have the authority to issue these fraudulent "judgments", if the state does not recognize them as an authorized duty the notary can be suspended."

Loonie: "You may be a Notary but you do not know the power and authority of your position. You know what they want you to know. I have studied the old and the new handbooks and they all support my findings. I have a brand new Ohio Handbook here that clearly states that the notary has the authority to execute discovery; to issue subpoenas, warrants for contempt and to issue judgments as they have the power of a justice of the peace. Sorry, your argument is void of facts"

Robert: "Sorry, you are full of crap.I have 100% knowledge of what a protest is and what a protest is not. Some states give notaries authority to issue subpoenas but most, including Florida, do not. I am authorized only to protest the dishonor of a check or promissory note under Florida law. A protest is nothing more. It is the government-protesting tax-evading loonies that twist the laws to mean what they want them to mean."

Loonie: "Hmmmm Interesting. Your obsession with arguing my research which is fully supported with FACT while offering ZERO EVIDENCE to support your claims might lead a reasonable man to believe that you are a government sponsored provacator or not so experienced agent of mis-information. If you do not care to exercise your full power and authority as a notary public to assist the American people, then so be it. That is on you."

Robert: "And you shouldn't be fighting foreclosure anyway. If you signed a mortgage and you failed to pay, guess what... the bank has the right to take your house back! Pay your bills and it wouldn't be an issue!"

Loonie: "I have always been a firm believer that it is better to remain silent and appear to be ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. I see you do not live by the same beliefs as I."

Robert: "You are the ignorant one. People will see by my posts that you are another tax-evading loonie that knows nothing about what notaries do."

Loonie: "Huff and Puff, but, still no evidence. Hmmmm My facts are carved in stone. And your's? Ahhhh, yes, non-existent! Spread that FEAR, False Evidence Appearing Real, FEAR! Seek, and the truth shall be revealed to you!"

Robert: "I have all the evidence I need. Only one place in all of Florida Statutes do the words "Notary" and "Protest" appear in the same section, s. 673.5051(2), which defines a protest as a certificate that a NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENT was dishonored. 673.1041 defines "negotiable instrument as " an unconditional promise or order to pay a fixed amount of money". It has nothing to do with fraudulent demands sent to government agencies. Protests are used to COLLECT debts, not avoid them. "

Robert: "And please send me the names of whatever notaries you are using for these fraudulent processes so I can report them to the Secretary of State. While you're at it, post YOUR name and address so I can notify the IRS. If this is such a legitimate process then what do you have to hide? "

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/12/10 6:29am
Msg #335988

And what ticks me off the most

is that whenever I argue with someone over this, they always say, "Well you do not know the full authority of your position", as if to say that I, a duly commissioned notary public, do not know that I have the right to issue fraudulent judgments and warrants? Give me a break! I know my duties/powers/responsibilities and they do not include this nonsense. It is not the evil state trying to hide this authority from me, it is the fact that this "authority" DOES NOT EXIST!

Sorry for ranting so much!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/12/10 9:03am
Msg #335998

Nothing about the basics of this debate is a surprise

People will go to any lengths to get out of trouble..and working for the Census I'm meeting a *lot* of anti-government people...in the long run these "protesters" spend a lot of money in vain as they rarely prevail - they are found out for what they are and pay the price.

What DOES bother me more is you and your words in this debate - "nut-job", "ignorant", "full of crap" - this was no true debate because you lost all your professionalism - this was a verbal war, plain and simple.

And IMO your vigilante-ism is concerning:

1. " I have reported every notary I have ever come across who I know to have gotten involved in this and I intend to continue doing so. "

2. "And please send me the names of whatever notaries you are using for these fraudulent processes so I can report them to the Secretary of State. While you're at it, post YOUR name and address so I can notify the IRS"

3. "last month I reported a notary to North Carolina authorities "

Although I don't disagree that notaries need to stay out of these, and I personally don't do them, I do think you need to get off the vigilante bus. It amazes me how much you come across, and post about (now on youtube no less) since I'm sure the majority of your work is restricted to documents drawn within the State of Florida. And for those from out of state, to think you take the time to study their work, research their laws and report them is amazing to me. It reeks of "vendetta".

Sorry, I'm not impressed


MHO

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/12/10 9:16am
Msg #336000

BTW, I should add I didn't watch the video... n/m

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/12/10 9:16am
Msg #336001

Re: Nothing about the basics of this debate is a surprise

Sorry, Linda, but if notaries continue to get involved in these illegal activities then they need to be reported. I can not single handedly improve public perception of the office of Notary Public but I intend to do what I can.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/12/10 9:33am
Msg #336004

Re: Nothing about the basics of this debate is a surprise

"What DOES bother me more is you and your words in this debate - "nut-job", "ignorant", "full of crap" - this was no true debate because you lost all your professionalism - this was a verbal war, plain and simple."

Amen! Methinks Robert has too much time on his hands.

Reply by Sandra Clark on 5/12/10 10:48am
Msg #336019

Re: Nothing about the basics of this debate is a surprise

Agree 100% Sylvia along with too much arrogance to go with it! Did someone die and make him Notary King? Didn't read the obit!

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/12/10 11:23am
Msg #336025

I've no need to defend myself. I stand by my posts above. n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/12/10 11:49am
Msg #336029

One cannot defend when there is no defense. n/m

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/12/10 12:12pm
Msg #336034

Again, Sylvia, I have no need to defend n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/12/10 12:12pm
Msg #336035

Lighten up Robert!

It sounds like you need anger management classes. I try to live by the Golden Rule. You know, sometimes people make honest mistakes.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/12/10 12:38pm
Msg #336039

Re: Lighten up Robert!

And Robert is quite capable of making mistakes. Wonder how he would feel if someone reported any of his mistakes to the SOS?

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/12/10 12:42pm
Msg #336042

Do you mean that Robert is NOT PERFECT????

What a concept!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/12/10 12:42pm
Msg #336043

Re: Do you mean that Robert is NOT PERFECT????

Not by a long shot:)

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/12/10 12:48pm
Msg #336046

I am not perfect either!

Sometimes it ticks me off that people are parked in a handicapped space and don't have the appropriate license plate or placard. (But I would never report them.) One time I thought, maybe they forgot it. Gee, that could happen to me! Sure enough last week I forgot to hang my placard when I went to the gym. When I came out the guy was writing me a ticket! Now I have to go to cpourt and show my placard to get it dismissed.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/12/10 12:54pm
Msg #336049

Re: I am not perfect either!

Can't you get a handicapped license plate?

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/12/10 12:56pm
Msg #336051

Re: I am not perfect either!

I don't know if I can have both. I always assumed it was one or the other. I like the placard because I can use it in other people's cars.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/12/10 1:17pm
Msg #336054

Re: I am not perfect either!

I have both - but I did get the placard before the license plate. But in checking I can have both in Florida.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/12/10 6:21pm
Msg #336128

Re: I am not perfect either!

Shoshana
I just checked the AZ DMV website, and it doesn't say you can have one or the other, so I think you should be able to get both the placard and the license plate. Doesn't hurt to apply for the license plate.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/12/10 1:15pm
Msg #336053

Re: I am not perfect either!

The fine here for parking in a handicap spot without a sticker is $500.00 and they enforce it. The problem I have is know people with a placard/sticker and park in a metered spot (they don't have to pay of they have to sticker) in front of their job for 8 hours.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/12/10 1:19pm
Msg #336057

Re: I am not perfect either!

The ones that irritate me are the ones who are not handicapped, no placard or handicapped license plates, who park in handicapped spaces because they are only going to be a minute and they don't think it matters!

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/12/10 1:25pm
Msg #336060

Re: I am not perfect either!

I can't stand that the Clerk of Circuit Court has a reserved parking spot on each corner of the intersection outside the courthouse. There is only ONE Clerk of Circuit Court, so how could she occupy all four spots at once? And - I've never seen her park in any of those spots.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/12/10 1:56pm
Msg #336066

Re: I am not perfect either!

The one that really irritate me are the ones who have a placard, jump out of their vehicle and run (literally) into the store with no apparent disability other than being fat and/or lazy. Sorry, if one is fat and can move efficiently, why do they need to park up front? Get some exercise....

And to those who have placards: don't loan to your friends and family just because it is raining.

Then, there are the stores with 50 spaces for handicapped making pretty much everyone else have to park in the boonies, rain or shine.

That's my rant, and I'm sticking with it. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Reply by PAW on 5/12/10 2:09pm
Msg #336068

Re: I am not perfect either!

Florida and many other states, consider the plate and placard as a parking permit and is issued to anyone with a certified (by a physician) handicap. Some states, like New Hampshire, consider the plate and placard as "Walking Disability" permit and is issued to anyone with a certified "walking" handicap. I think the way NH does it is better than many other states.

As for the number of spaces, Florida statute §553.5041, entitled “Parking spaces for persons who have disabilities”, is the State standard for parking spaces provided for disabled persons. Section 553.5041(4) states “The number of accessible parking spaces must comply with the requirements in ADAAG’s 4.1.” The ADAAG is the “Americans with Disabilities Act Accessibility Guidelines.” These Guidelines present the minimum number of accessible parking spaces and varies from 1 space for lots with less than 25 spaces, up to 2% of total number of spaces, up to 1,000 total spaces. Over 1,000, it is 200 HP spaces plus 1 HP space for every 100 spaces (or portion thereof) of regular parking spaces.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/12/10 2:11pm
Msg #336069

When I had my mother here with me

and she got to the point where extended walking was a significant chore for her, I went to the tax collector's office about the permit - I was issued two on the spot (one for each vehicle we owned) without any medical documentation whatsoever. All I needed to show was her ID.

I never used them - and I still have them - they don't get turned in.

Reply by PAW on 5/12/10 2:14pm
Msg #336071

That isn't right

I guess the clerk didn't know or doesn't care what the statutes say. Par for the course.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/12/10 2:18pm
Msg #336072

I agree... n/m

Reply by PAW on 5/12/10 2:12pm
Msg #336070

Exceptions

Medical offices, including outpatient clinics and other facilities that provide services for disabled people: 10 percent of all parking spaces must be set aside for handicapped parking.

Facilities that specialize in serving only people with disabilities: 20 percent of the total parking spaces must be set aside for handicapped parking.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/12/10 2:21pm
Msg #336074

Re: I am not perfect either!

Evidently Publix does not subscribe to the guideline - they go way above and beyond. Their parking spots are much larger than most spaces at other stores also. That does put one in the boonies often.

I do like that NH has "walking disability" as part of the requirement....and would like to see that become the norm.

And for going to the gym? well.....

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/12/10 2:26pm
Msg #336076

I do rehab work at the gym...

water aerobics and pilates.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/12/10 3:59pm
Msg #336098

Re: I do rehab work at the gym...

I can go with that. But, you have to admit, it does sound a bit funny (oxymoronish)

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/12/10 4:03pm
Msg #336099

Re: I do rehab work at the gym...

It does... but you'd be really surprised how many guys in wheelchairs are real gym rats. They have to be to keep their strength up. The gym I go to has three or for guys who seem to always be there together, all of the paraplegics in these sporty chairs. These gusy are BUFF.

But... they legitimately need the disabled spaces because of the 10-foot space for their wheelchair lifts.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/12/10 4:12pm
Msg #336102

Re: I do rehab work at the gym...

Honestly, I am working hard to build up my quads and hamstrings, lose weight and strengthen my core to alleviate the discomfort from the knee replacements and pain from my spinal stenosis.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/12/10 2:31pm
Msg #336077

Re: I am not perfect either!

In Fla. it seems like most of the people with these permits have NO walking handicap other than, as someone said above, being fat and/or lazy. My grandfather had a heart valve replacement a million years ago and has a handicap permit and he absolutely DOES NOT need one. At sports games he will park in a handicap spot at a convenience store a mile away and walk to the staidum to avoid paying for parking. No walking disability whatsoever. My other grandpa has same problem. I think they are just handing these things out to people who are elderly or obese who know a doctor who will write them a note. Heck, maybe I'll apply for one just to see how easy it is.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/12/10 3:17pm
Msg #336087

Re: I am not perfect either!

Are you going to report your grandfathers for fraudulently having handicap parking permits Robert?

My husband and I both need the handicap placards - and handicap tags! We may be elderly (compared to you) however neither one of us could be considered obese. I am under 120 lbs and my husband is under 145 lbs.

Reply by desktopfull on 5/12/10 6:04pm
Msg #336123

Re: I am not perfect either!

You know what Robert some people may not look handicapped to you, but you would be dead wrong. Many in this state are getting chemotherapy and other cancer treatments and may look perfectly normal, they can also walk, but they are weakened considerably by the treatments and definitely deserve to have a handicap permit. You really need to quit being so intolerably judgemental.

"Heck, maybe I'll apply for one just to see how easy it is."

It took my mother 4 months to get hers, so go ahead and try it isn't easy to get a Doctor to write the document you will need.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/12/10 9:44pm
Msg #336154

I'd rather head in the other direction...

I just don't get the mentality of people trying to get away with something so as not to waste time or inconvenience themselves - potentially at someone elses expense. One place the issue comes up regularly for me is in front of my local UPS store. The handicapped spot is nearly always the only spot available in front of it, so I end up just weaving through the parking lot a bit where there are always plenty of spaces - just not as convenient. It amazes me how many times I come back to the store to find that someone else (without a placard or plate) has parked there "just for a second".

These days, though, I find I'm sometimes intentionally parking farther away on purpose just to get in the extra steps. Nine years ago I went through a long spell where walking far was definitely a challenge, but it never occurred to me to apply for a handicapped sticker - 'cause I was determined that it was only going to be temporary. (Even then, the exercise was good for me, however difficult.) These days, I'm very grateful that it doesn't even enter my mind - and I intend to keep it that way for as long as possible!! [BTW, this is in no way intended as an indictment to those who have a genuine need of a placard!]

Reply by taxpro on 8/24/10 5:13pm
Msg #350287

Re: I am not perfect either!

Why on earth would he take up a handicap parking space at a convenience store so he can walk to the stadium? What if an actual handicapped person stops at the convenience store and needs that space? Why not just park in a regular parking space at the convenience store? Geesh!

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/12/10 1:30pm
Msg #336061

Re: I am not perfect either!

I know that in CA and also here in AZ one does not have to be recertified as handicapped by a doctor. I do think that's a problem. I know that in CA particularly in the Bay Area there is a huge placard theft problem.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/12/10 3:08pm
Msg #336082

I know of people who properly have handicap placards,

(including my wife) but whose disability is not readily apparent.
I hate to tell you the number of times, that these folks have been approached and
harranged in parking lots by self-appointed members of the "handicap police"
(sort of like certain self-appointed members of the "notary police")
On several such occaisions, I have been tempted to tell these busybodies,
"She has cancer, maybe , if you're lucky, you can get cancer too, so that you can get
a handicap placard. "

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/12/10 3:50pm
Msg #336096

Re: I know of people who properly have handicap placards,

My husband is disabled... and the LAW ( in CA) is that the placard must be displayed in order to park... not just in possession. My husband forgot once and he not only got a ticket, he got a sound lecture from the judge and had to pay a fine. The judge was like, "There's a blue sign in every parking lot that says you must display the placard. If you're prone to forget, you should get a permanent plate."

That said, there are a LOT of people who get the placards who shouldn't have them. Having a disability or disease does not automatically qualify you, contrary to popular opinion. In California you have to have a disease or disorder the severely impairs your mobility. That can also mean a heart or lung condition where mobility is impaired.

Any other condition doesn't legally apply.

I have seen it abused so much. There are times when my husband can't park anywhere because spots are full. I have seen people park in these places and get right out of their cars and practically run in to the building. Those people are NOT disabled enough to utilize those spaces.

Having cancer... on it's own, doesn't qualify either. One must have a complication due to the cancer or treatment that impairs mobility (or breathing, etc.)

My husband's doctor is really strict about signing these applications. He wouldn't sign the one for my husband for the longest time. Why? Because the doctor's former partner got busted for signing these applications for people who didn't legally qualify for them.

I know of a woman in my town who got the placard for son because he's autistic. The kid plays SOCCER!!! She always uses it when her boy isn't even with her, claiming she shopping for her son. What? She needs a disabled spot to go shopping for her son... who has ZERO mobility issues? That's BS.

While having a disability is none too fun, not all diabilities qualify for the parking. The parking is specific to those with mobility challenges.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/13/10 12:12am
Msg #336198

I am not disposed to post my wife's medical history

here, Marian, but her cancer has. in fact, resulted in significant mobility limitations.
I will assume that your comment was intended as a general statement, and was
not intended to imply that we were using her cancer to scam the system.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/13/10 12:47am
Msg #336201

Re: I know of people who properly have handicap placards,

"I have seen it abused so much. There are times when my husband can't park anywhere because spots are full. I have seen people park in these places and get right out of their cars and practically run in to the building. Those people are NOT disabled enough to utilize those spaces."

This is what I was talking about - not 'dashing into the store' at a disabled individuals pace, but 'running or walking very fast' as though there are time limitations involved.

I never have and never would approach someone though to criticize their behavior. An acquaintance of mine has Crone's disease and told me of the many times she has been verbally assaulted for using the handicapped bathroom stalls - and some of her responses to the rudest of the lot. She's very funny, her telling was dead on funny, but the situation is not funny. Apprearance can be deceiving.

But when I see them running, and in the same store observe their behavior and mobility, I am irritated somewhat as it is depriving someone possibly of a deserved space.

Personally, I don't mind a walk, even in the rain, and choose to park further out due to the amount of sitting time I get in a normal day. Sometimes though, a close spot is a 'gift' that can't be passed.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 5/12/10 4:06pm
Msg #336101

Handicapped parking & wheelchairs ....

It never occurred to me until I had a wheelchair-bound friend, some of the really nasty consequences some 'alternately-abled' folks have to contend with. I can't tell you how OFTEN my friend - a very active & independent "I can do" sort - would park out in the 'boonies' of the parking lot because all the handicapped spots were taken, only to return and find another car parked next to his van - effectively trapping him into that person's time zone. What are his options - sit around and wait for a handicapped spot to open up, go back home and forget all about whatever he was going to do because there's no safe place to park, or chance it by parking in the outfield? He made himself a sign for the side window - just a "Please don't park on this side so I can get my wheelchair through here" but we don't easily or often notice such unexpected details.