Posted by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 1:16pm
Msg #336951

Depositions

I only have to swear them in. There will be three. How much should I charge?

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/18/10 1:28pm
Msg #336952

Add up your cell phone number times three

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 1:39pm
Msg #336955

Per page 19 of the AZ handbook, $2.00 per notarial act = $6.00 plus the mileage fees set by the Dept. of Administration. I find it fairly ridiculous to charge an hourly rate to go administer three oaths. MHO

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 1:50pm
Msg #336958

Please mind your own state's business!

I already know what's in the handbook!

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/18/10 1:54pm
Msg #336959

couldn't have said it better myself! n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 1:56pm
Msg #336960

Remember that scene in Chinatown where....

Roman Polanski threatens to cut off Jack Nicholson's nose?

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/18/10 1:59pm
Msg #336961

YES, YES, YES!!!!!.... n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/18/10 2:16pm
Msg #336962

Re: Remember that scene in Chinatown where....

I can thing of something besides his nose that should be cut off from Roman Polanski

Reply by John/CT on 5/18/10 2:28pm
Msg #336965

Opps ...

That should stop him from "Roamin'"

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 2:42pm
Msg #336966

If you already know the handbook, why did you ask? n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/18/10 2:46pm
Msg #336972

Yeah, amazing that someone would consider clogging up

the board with useless questions, when the poster already knows the
answer.
(Need to download that new "sarcastic symbol that I heard about)

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 2:48pm
Msg #336973

Glad we're on the same page Bob n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/18/10 2:52pm
Msg #336976

I don't think you are on the same page Robert

Bob was being sarcastic - referring to you continually clogging up the board with your useless questions that you already know the answers to, just so you can "discuss" the issue.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 2:53pm
Msg #336978

I don't ask ?'s that I already know the answers to n/m

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 2:54pm
Msg #336979

and this *IS* a discussion board, no? n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/18/10 2:19pm
Msg #336964

Actually... Robert had a good point....

As a notarial act, you're limited to charging the state's maximum fee... and in AZ they are pretty clear that you can only charge the current mileage rate.

If you already know what's in your handbook on this, why are you asking what to charge?


It's an honest question. All you're doing is swearing them in, right?

Unless, they are making you sit around and wait for each one of them to be done...is that it? If so then it is reasonable to be paid for your time waiting.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/18/10 2:44pm
Msg #336967

As an aside, I have never encountered a court reporter

who is not, also a Notary Public.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 3:23pm
Msg #336987

Yes the notary who is administering the oaths has

about two hours of waiting time, not to mention travel time as well.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 3:29pm
Msg #336992

I find that hard to believe

You are telling me that they expect you to wait for two hours to swear in witnesses?

If you are expecting a unanimous "Charge $100!!!" response you won't get it from me. They could have someone commissioned as a new notary for that amount.

Reply by bagger on 5/18/10 5:53pm
Msg #337041

Re: I find that hard to believe

Robert don't you work in a law firm?
Have you ever been to court?
Witnesses may show up and wait for days to be called, if they are ever called.
2 hours doesn't sound unreasonable.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 7:20pm
Msg #337046

Re: I find that hard to believe

Yes I know how depositions work and they involve witnesses appearing at a scheduled time to be interrogated. It is not like a trial where witnesses may sit in the hallway waiting to be called in by the judge, and this is not what the OP was referring to and notaries are rarely (if ever) used to administer oaths in a courtroom where there is a presiding judge.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/18/10 7:29pm
Msg #337048

Robert....think "telephone" depositions...

or testimony for that matter...judge or attorney on one end, witness/deponent on other end - notary swears in witness/deponent at beginning of teleconference..then leaves...

Explained for FL notaries in our manual..page 13 http://www.flgov.com/pdfs/ref_manual11-22.pdf

Yes, they can end up waiting - as I did once only to find out a settlement had been reached.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/18/10 5:00pm
Msg #337033

Re: Actually... Robert had a good point....

I once charge $35 notarize ONE Doc at the courthouse. The attorney called me and that's what we agreed on. Come to find out, the person was being arraigned, another with another 20 criminals and I had to wait for his turn. When I told the attorney about this development he said you agreed to $35 dollars. I said $100 hour wait time, he said no, I left. No one knows how long you're going to have to wait so you must cover those cost, maybe you can give a refund .

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/18/10 2:45pm
Msg #336968

"I find it fairly ridiculous to charge an hourly rate to go administer three oaths"

And what if it is an hour's travel time?

I find it ridiculous that a plumber charges an hourly rate to come and spend 5 minutes to tell me what is wrong with a drain or something, but they do!
I find it ridiculous when an attorney charges for an hours time for a couple of minutes on the phone.
I found it ridiculous when my f-i-l was in hospital, a doctor popped his head in the room, was told my f-i-l was in the bathroom so he left, but his "visit" was on the hospital bill.

Why shouldn't a professional such as Shoshanna charge for her time as well???
As you said in the past, notaries should have more respect.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 2:46pm
Msg #336971

Because she is acting only as a notary public by administering oaths. She is not offering any sort of professional service. She is offering a public service, and, IMO, she should not charge more than she is allowed by law acting in her capacity as a state officer.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/18/10 2:50pm
Msg #336974

"She is not offering any sort of professional service."

Notaries are professional! Unless the persons giving the deposition are coming to her office, then she should be allowed to charge travel fees and fees for her time if she has to wait around. Our time is valuable - even if yours isn't.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 2:53pm
Msg #336977

Sorry, Sylvia, but IMO whether it takes you 2 minutes or 2 hours to notarize a signature, you are only entitled to charge the amount your state allows. Administering an oath for a depo is no different. It is nothing more than a notarial act and, since Arizona laws are pretty clear that she can only charge the statutory fee plus a mileage fee set by law, IMO she is not and should not be entitled to any sort of hourly fee.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 3:13pm
Msg #336982

To clear this up.... AZ (like many other states) Notary Law has many nuances that are not necessarily explained in the handbook. If you want to know more, attend the FREE classes given by the SOS. I attend once a year and learn something new everytime I go.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/18/10 3:21pm
Msg #336986

The handbook is really just that - a handbook for reference. Doesn't always cover all the laws.

I wish our SOS would give free classes occasionally.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 3:26pm
Msg #336988

The free classes are great. I wish more AZ notaries would

take advantage of them. There is a lot of knowledge to be gained.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/18/10 3:15pm
Msg #336983

"Arizona laws are pretty clear that she can only charge the statutory fee plus a mileage fee set by law"

Actually, AZ laws are not pretty clear on depositions. Otherwise Shoshanna would not have been asking on the board.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 3:16pm
Msg #336984

All she is doing at the deposition is swearing in a witness. That is nothing more than an oath. An oath is a notarial act. Nothing special about a deposition.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/18/10 3:30pm
Msg #336993

Robert, it seems to me that you're thinking like an employee, not a business owner. Swearing in a witness is NOT all she is doing. Before that can be accomplished, she has to get into a vehicle she has bought, using gas she has paid for, and spend time getting there that is now unavailable for any other productive, income producing activity.

If she was a paid employee in the attorney's office where the deposition was to be taken, then I would agree with you. But that's not the case. When you consider all that is involved for her to first get to the point where she can then swear in the witness, if she didn't charge enough to cover her expenses and pay for her time, she'd literally be losing money.

Being a public servant is all well and good, but we also have to make a living. I don't think anyone should expect *us* to be the ones to pay for the services we provide to others.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 3:32pm
Msg #336995

Notaries were not put on this earth to make a profit. The office was established to serve the public. If you choose to offer that service in correlation with another professional service (such as loan signing agents), then you are entitled to charge for your professional service. Shoshanna is not acting as a signing agent in this instance, nor is she acting as a court reporty, nor is she required to do anything other than administer an oath. Her laws say that, for administering an oath, she is entitled to charge $2.00 plus the mileage fees allowed by Arizona law. That is it. If Arizona law intended notaries to bill by the hour it would state that in the statutoes.

Reply by docs1954CA on 5/18/10 3:42pm
Msg #337000

Robert, it's a good thing you're a employee and not

a business owner, as you wouldn't make it with that kind of attitude.

"Notaries were not put on this earth to make a profit". No? We're supposed to work for free? Really?


You do know of course, all the time you spend on this forum spewing your dribble is STEALING from your employer. Where are your ethics Robert?

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 3:43pm
Msg #337002

What makes you think I am on my employer's clock right now? n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 3:46pm
Msg #337003

First of all, I am NOT the notary involved. secondly, how do you know that the notary involved is not also a court reporter?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/18/10 3:48pm
Msg #337004

"how do you know that the notary involved is not also a court reporter?"

Doncha know, he knows everything!

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 3:52pm
Msg #337006

If you aren't the notary then what are you doing?

The original post said you were swearing in 3 minutes. Unless you are also a county judge I assume that you were administering these oaths as a notary, right? And wouldn't that mean you can only charge the notary fees allowed by Arizona law?

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 3:55pm
Msg #337008

I accidentally wrote the first post as if I were the notary.

I customarily write that way when I post. On this occassion somebody asked me to find out for them. The notary is swearing in 3 people 1 hour apart.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 3:58pm
Msg #337010

Don't assume what you don't know to be a fact! n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/18/10 4:03pm
Msg #337013

Re: Don't assume what you don't know to be a fact!

In this case.... I will defend Robert. You can't jump all over him for making an assumption about something you stated YOU were doing. You didn't clarify that until 2.5 hours after the fact.

That said... its doesn't so much matter if it's you or any other AZ notary, the rules still apply, right?

You handbook says that:

- $2.00 max per act
- You cannot charge services fees or transaction fees
- You can charge that state regulated mileage fee and per diem


Barring actual information otherwise... that's the answer to your question, isn't it?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/18/10 3:53pm
Msg #337007

Shoshana said, "First of all, I am NOT the notary involved. secondly, how do you know that the notary involved is not also a court reporter?"

Uhm.... now I'm really confused, here.

Shoshana, in your original post, you said, "I only have to swear them in. There will be three. How much should I charge?"

Okay... maybe it's just me, but when one generally uses the "I" pronoun, they generally are referring to themselves.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 3:59pm
Msg #337011

That was an error. I recently explained that here. n/m

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 7:23pm
Msg #337047

Sounds like you are backpedaling to avoid accusations of

over-charging, Shoshana.

Your original post was clear as day, that you were referring to yourself. Both myself and Marian clearly answered your question above.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/18/10 8:05pm
Msg #337052

Re: Sounds like you are backpedaling to avoid accusations of

As Shoshana has not mentioned what the other notary is charging (and even if she was the notary involved, a fee has not been mentioned) then no-one can be accused of overcharging!!

If Shoshana says she was asking the question for another notary, then who are you to discredit it?
Shoshana has been around here many years and those of us who know her know her word is trustworthy!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/18/10 5:56pm
Msg #337042

You obviously have no concept of what a mobile notary is.

There is time involved in doing these things, and time is money. If all it takes is popping in, getting something signed or administering an oath, and then popping out again - yes, you charge the statutory fees plus mileage. If you have to sit around and wait for things to happen, you charge for the time you're sitting around and waiting for things to happen. Just because the statutes don't address wait time doesn't mean you can't charge for it. This has nothing to do with being a "public official", and everything to do with running a business.

Try putting yourself in the shoes of people who do this for a living rather than sitting back and pontificating on how YOU think things should work. They are providing a service and being a notary is only part of that service, so it not all cut and dried the way you seem to think it is.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/18/10 3:41pm
Msg #336998

"Swearing in a witness is NOT all she is doing. Before that can be accomplished, she has to get into a vehicle she has bought, using gas she has paid for, and spend time getting there that is now unavailable for any other productive, income producing activity.

If she was a paid employee in the attorney's office where the deposition was to be taken, then I would agree with you. But that's not the case. When you consider all that is involved for her to first get to the point where she can then swear in the witness, if she didn't charge enough to cover her expenses and pay for her time, she'd literally be losing money."

Janet, while that's absolutely true... what Robert is saying is that Arizona's handbook states that she can only charge a certain amount for travel. It's pretty clear that overcharging is a felony according to their handbook.

It states, "Service or transaction fees shall not be charged. Mileage fees can be charged."

Then it goes one...

"A notary public may charge a travel mileage fee and charge per diem, if he or she travels a distance to perform a notarization. The travel mileage fee and per diem allowed is the
amount allowed Arizona state employees.

The Department of Administration administers the mileage fee. The mileage fee schedule is posted at www.azdoa.gov.

A notary public who plans to charge this fee should contact the Department of Administration to make sure this mileage fee is current."

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/18/10 3:43pm
Msg #337001

Exactly my point

Arizona's handbook states the amounts she may charge for performing a notarial act. That is all she is doing - performing a notarial act. Therefore, she may not charge more than the amount allowed by Arizona law. That means, no hourly rate.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/18/10 3:49pm
Msg #337005

Well, she can charge per diem. n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/18/10 3:56pm
Msg #337009

As I understand it, Per Diem means like paying for meals and

a hotel room.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/18/10 4:08pm
Msg #337015

Re: As I understand it, Per Diem means like paying for meals and

Not always.
Bruce has got "per diem" - and it was an allowance for travel - and sometimes included meals and lodging.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/18/10 4:10pm
Msg #337018

Re: As I understand it, Per Diem means like paying for meals and

My husband had the same thing when he was traveling for training. He was paid a per diem whether he used the money for food/lodging or not.

If you can charge a per diem for 2 hours of work... why not?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/18/10 4:08pm
Msg #337016

Re: As I understand it, Per Diem means like paying for meals and

I'm not sure... that's something you'd likely have to clarify with someone else.

Honestly... if those were my rules and I was asked to do this? I'd turn it down. I'm not going to spend two hours waiting around for a job that will pay less than $20.

That fact is... attending classes may not be your best defense here. What usually matters are the regulations wrotten down.

I still am having a hard time getting around how charging more can get around the rules. I want think there is something there... but I'm not seeing it.

It just seems like being a notary in AZ is not a very profitable business because of regulations.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/18/10 9:21pm
Msg #337058

The real issue here, which both you and Robert seem to be overlooking, is the down time between administering the oaths. That has nothing to do with the notarial act itself, and isn't covered by the statutes (unless you can show me where in the handbook it says the notary is required to sit around indefinitely waiting for things to happen). You have your own business; would YOU sit around for two hours waiting to administer 3 oaths and not charge for your wait time?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/18/10 3:28pm
Msg #336991

While I agree that she should be paid for her waiting time, if any... I do think Robert makes a good point here. All she is doing is administering an oath. She's not taking the deposition. Administering an oath is a standard notarial act -- and it doesn't matter if the oath is for a deposition or a regular jurat.

Page 14 of the AZ handbook says, "An oath or an affirmation is a notarial act..."

If that's the case, then she is tied to the $2 per act. Page 19 says, "Service or transaction fees shall not be charged. Mileage fees can be charged..."

And regarding mileage, it states, "A notary public may charge a travel mileage fee and charge per diem, if he or she travels a distance to perform a notarization. The travel mileage fee and per diem allowed is the amount allowed Arizona state employees."

Okay, so she can add per diem...so wouldn't that be the answer? Look $2 per oath, plus mileage and per diem?

What I'm wondering, and what I think Robert is asking is... what is there to suggest that what Shoshanna is doing is NOT a notarial act that exempts her from these rules?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/18/10 3:31pm
Msg #336994

BTW, I'm not arguing any particular side... I'm actually quite curious about the answer here because from what I can see, AZ locks it down pretty tightly when it comes to the fees that you can charge.

Reply by Michelle/AL on 5/18/10 1:43pm
Msg #336956

Shoshana, I normally charge $50.00 per deposition. I've done a few and each time I had to wait around for at least 15-20 minutes, sometimes longer. Twice the judge asked me to get on the phone (the people who hired me were participating in a court hearing telephonically) to identify myself and explain how I identified the person I deposed.

So I guess what I'm saying is that my $50.00 assumed that I was swearing in one individual and the longest I would be needed was 15-30 minutes. It also assumed that I would not be required to mail or fax any documentation. If I were doing three at the same location, I'd probably charge $100.00 - assuming I didn't have far to travel.

PS: Alabama does not stipulate a fee for this.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/18/10 8:22pm
Msg #337057

Re: Depositions - agree, Michelle.

Sounds about right.

I feel that there must be some way that the notary in the example should be able to charge for the convenience provided to the parties by going to the deposition. I assure you that if a notary is being called to give an oath, then it is because the other alternatives (whatever they are) would cost more.

Sounds to me that this depo will be recorded on video or audio tapes. I don't know what the "rules" are these days on such, but I do know that some hearings (such as parole hearings) are taped and then sent out to be transcribed by transcription services. It would make sense that if such are taped or videoed, a notary would be needed, but not a court reporter.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/19/10 1:42am
Msg #337072

Re: Depositions - agree, Michelle.

I would think the term "mobile notary" comes into play. It is not defined as such.