Posted by Lita on 5/13/10 8:37pm
Msg #336454

Help Quick ? For Signing in 2 hrs

I have a DOT that has inserted the borrowers names on the acknowledgment as, "John Smith and Mary Smith, of the Smith Family Trust Dated November 1, 2004" I am in California and we cannot certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity. My question is this does that right? I have to remove everything but their names correct?

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/13/10 8:38pm
Msg #336455

Yes n/m

Reply by Lita on 5/13/10 8:39pm
Msg #336456

Re: Yes

Yes I cannot do it and must remove everything but names right?

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/13/10 8:50pm
Msg #336458

<<<<I have a DOT that has inserted the borrowers names on the acknowledgment as, "John Smith and Mary Smith, of the Smith Family Trust Dated November 1, 2004"....>>>>

Yes, you are correct. Just draw a line through "of the Smith Family Trust Dated November 1, 2004.....initial it.

Reply by John Tennant on 5/13/10 9:16pm
Msg #336463

Hi Lita,

First of all, you have been thrown under the bus. The t/c should have removed the family trust until after the completion of the transaction, then if applicable, re-established it.

My wife and I have a 'family trust' and when we sell, refi, or what-ever, our documents never have reflected the trust. There is no cost to have the documents changed from a trust to individuals and then re-established to a trust after completion of the transaction. We had this done last year when we refied.

Actually, you can certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity by seeing the trust papers. Those papers, to be legal, had to have been notarized. Is this the correct way to do it. No.

When you remove everything but their names you are taking a risk that there are not more individuals involved in the trust.

I, personally would not do it. I would send it back to the t/c for correction. Their error.

No, I am not posting this on the open response because of the huge furor that would happen.

Check your manual, and check the IRS.GOV website for information on "trusts"

John

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 5/13/10 9:39pm
Msg #336470

Lita does not need to know anything about trusts or research trusts either in order to do her job as a notary. She needs to check with the hiring entity, to check if they are aware that it says trust, they might have overlooked this in error. Even if she sees the trust documents, it doesn't mean she can certify their stated capacity or include it in her acknowledgement. She CAN include that sort of information on her loose certificate, down at the very bottom- where you include information (that helps prevent fraud or abuse) for example: date of document, additional signers, capacity claimed by signer. However, that is for informational purposes ONLY.
Her acknowledgement, cannot contain anything but the signers names. With her example of how the names were given with capacity, she can attach a loose cert with the names only, or line it out, like some one else said. She should check with the hiring party, because they will probably have to re-draw, if they were not aware of the trust.
And yes, it does cost money to have the documents changed. You paid for the recording fees with your refi, for them to record the in/out (of trust) deeds whether you realized it or not. Nothing is free.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/13/10 9:45pm
Msg #336473

<<<First of all, you have been thrown under the bus. The t/c should have removed the family trust until after the completion of the transaction, then if applicable, re-established it.>>>

No one is thrown under any bus. It is not necessary to remove a home from a trust to refi it.....hasn't for years. Some TCs still do, but it's not necessary. I currently complete loan signings both ways - where the house is refi'd and left in trust (borrower's sign as both individuals and again as trustees) or the house is refi'd, deeded from trust to borrowers and back to trust. Notarial certificates are to have the person's names who are appearing before the notary, and nothing else. How the docs are signed is up to the TC.

<<<<<Actually, you can certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity by seeing the trust papers.>>>>>

NO....a notary does NOT need to see any trust papers, it is not the notary's business.

<<<When you remove everything but their names you are taking a risk that there are not more individuals involved in the trust.>>>

No, when you remove everything but their names, you are following proper notarial procedure, as per the SOS - only names belong in the notarial certificate. It is not the notary's concern of whoever else is in the trust.

<<<I, personally would not do it. I would send it back to the t/c for correction. Their error.>>>

Unnecessary.....just line through and initial the capacity, and leave the names.

<<<Check your manual, and check the IRS.GOV website for information on "trusts">>>

For what? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! This is NOT a big deal...

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/14/10 2:13am
Msg #336495

Agree 100% n/m

Reply by kathy/ca on 5/13/10 11:19pm
Msg #336485

Sorry John but your information is incorrect for a CA notary n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/14/10 12:43am
Msg #336486

Wow, SO much bad information in a single post

I think every single paragraph has incorrect information. Including the part where you apparently thought you were sending it as a private message.

The huge furor would be because you seem to know absolutely nothing about doing this job OR basic notarial law. But I'm dying to know why you believe that we can certify capacity by seeing the trust papers when CA law specifically forbids it.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/14/10 1:27am
Msg #336487

WHAT???

"Actually, you can certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity by seeing the trust papers [...]When you remove everything but their names you are taking a risk that there are not more individuals involved in the trust."


Like all of the others have said... that's 100% wrong. The notarial certificate CANNOT indicate capacity in any form. That's basic CA notary law.

The ONLY thing that goes in the "Name" field is just that... the NAMES of the individuals signing at the time. Capacity means NOTHING. The fact that it's in a trust means NOTHING. The only thing that matters is the names of the individuals.

The others are correct, the answer her is to simply line through the everything but the names.

Or, simply cross out the entire block and stamp or write in a new one right beneath it. Both ways work, although the first is much neater.

Reply by DaveCA/CA on 5/13/10 10:13pm
Msg #336477

On acknowledgment, cross out everything but their name and

initial it. Only you initial. Since the acknowledgment is your part. Only names can appear in the acknowledgment part. If it says, John Doe, a single person. You cross out "a single person" and initial. Good luck.