Posted by DD/OR on 5/1/10 1:08pm
Msg #334498

I'm sooo tired

I'm so tired of companys that threaten to with-hold part of my fee if/when they decide to. I'm so tired of all the fax-backs. I'm so tired of them taking advantage of me by paying me less. I'm so tired of borrowers that are uncooperative, unfriendly and downright mean.

I just completed a closing where all of these factors came into play. The borrowers are doing Refi's on 2 properties they own. The closing did not go well at all. I could tell right from the start it would not fly because she was so critical. I wish now I would have walked out. The borrowers didn't sign many of the pages for one reason or another. They kept putting sticky notes on the pages that said, "This statement is incorrect". Then some of the pages had her name spelled wrong. She was upset over that. I know it will not close but guess who will pay for it? You got it, me. I'm sure the company will try to put the blame on me just so they won't have to pay me. I can just see it now, me hassling and threatening the Title co for my pay. I'm sure the company will either cut my pay or not pay me at all. This closing was very hard because there were 2 sets of documents. I tried to smooth things over between her and her LO, and I was there way longer that I should have been. I'm kicking myself for not walking out and taking my loss.

The thing of it is, they don't tell you upfront that they will with-hold part of your fee untill you get the documents. I am going to refuse to do business with any company that threatens to with-hold part of my fee. But then again, they don't even have to tell you, they would just do it. Well, thanks for letting me vent, I needed that. Good therapy. I hope everyone is enjoying the weekend. Take care.

Reply by PAW on 5/1/10 1:16pm
Msg #334499

Part of my automatic response to a closing confirmation reads:

This email confirms our agreement of the price quoted in your confirmation email as the fee agreed upon by both parties and is not subject to arbitrary reduction or increase by either party, without written (or email) notice and agreement by both parties. Your invoice will be for the amount agreed upon.


If the company doesn't like MY terms and conditions, and there have been a few, then we don't do business together.

Reply by John/CT on 5/1/10 2:30pm
Msg #334510

Well said, Paul. I'm going to use it in the future. n/m

Reply by DD/OR on 5/1/10 5:42pm
Msg #334524

Hey, that's good. I'm going to use that too from now on. Thanks, PAW.

Reply by PJM/MI on 5/3/10 10:03am
Msg #334648

PAW.. TY. n/m

Reply by BossLadyMD on 5/1/10 1:19pm
Msg #334500

So sorry to hear of such abuse. Ask the borrower to call the LO for clarity and explain that you are not an employee of the lender. If they still become irate, call the SS and TC and tell that the borrower has taken exception to the some of the docs or whatever. I dont care how the SS is rushing you in the beginning to take an assignment; make them wait and clear up what's due in the event of a refusal. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BOSS. If they dont like it, tough. Dont force yourself to work under unpleasant conditions again. Its so not worth. Hope your weekend gets better dear!

Reply by DD/OR on 5/1/10 5:40pm
Msg #334523

Thanks, BossLady. The borrower and LO were not getting along well and that was part of the problem. And the Title company didn't help matters by mispelling her name and all the figures were off on the settlement statement. Anyway, I feel better now. I got a banana split. That always makes me feel better. Some people drink when they get stressed. I get a banana split. Take care.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/1/10 2:21pm
Msg #334509

"I wish now I would have walked out. The borrowers didn't sign many of the pages for one reason or another. They kept putting sticky notes on the pages that said, "This statement is incorrect"

You definitely should have walked out. There's no way I'm going to waste my time going through 2 sets of documents where the borrower refuses to sign multiple pages. I might let it fly on a single page if it were one that I figured would be unlikely to create too many problems if it weren't signed, but if it happened a second time I would assume that it was going to happen a third, fourth, and fifth time.

At that point I would tell them that I couldn't continue the signing if they were going to keep refusing to sign pages, and that they'd need to get a copy of the docs from their broker to review and it could be rescheduled after that. Better to cut your losses early in these situations.

And you do share part of the blame, you let the borrowers take control of the signing and dictate to you how you were going to do your job. You can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do, but you have total control when it comes to making the call on when it's time to abort the signing. So chalk it up to lesson learned and just hope you get someone at the TC who has already dealt with them and knows what a PITA they are.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/1/10 3:54pm
Msg #334515

..."And you do share part of the blame, you let the borrowers take control of the signing and dictate to you how you were going to do your job. You can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do, but you have total control when it comes to making the call on when it's time to abort the signing. So chalk it up to lesson learned and just hope you get someone at the TC who has already dealt with them and knows what a PITA they are."

Very well said CaliNotary, I couldn't agree more...

Reply by DD/OR on 5/1/10 5:51pm
Msg #334525

You're right, of course. I just kept thinking things would get better because she was talking to her LO. And then I thought, if I walk out, I know I won't get paid. But if I completed the signing, at least I can say I did my part, and they will not have any excuse not to pay me. This was a Title co. If they give me any payment problems, I will post it on SC. So we'll see. Take care.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/1/10 8:37pm
Msg #334551

We've all been there.

One thing I remember seeing recommended on this board was to say something like "I was under the impression that everything was ready to be signed, and I've only scheduled an hour for this signing. Since I can see that you still have some issues that need to be resolved, we're going to have to reschedule". I haven't had a chance to try that one yet, but it seems like a good, subtle way of saying "It's because of YOU that I'm leaving".

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 5/2/10 12:50am
Msg #334564

Good posts Cali & Paul -- As for me, being dumb also works

When I am confirming the appointment AND while at the close, before I pull out any paperwork, I will usually say something along the lines of:

The way this works is, if your lender or title company had an office locally, they would probably have you close there. In this case, the title company does not have an office in this area so they do what they have done in this case, which is to call me, a local notary signing agent to meet with you with the docs and witness you signing the paperwork. I have no affiliation with either the lender or the title company, other than being called to meet with you. I will be able to tell you about the paperwork, but if there are any specific questions regarding your loan we will have to contact your LO or the title company, because again I have no affiliation with either of them.

I make it sound very conversational and very matter of fact. That way they know up front if any info is incorrect; it was not me, I had no control over it all, and Hey, let’s call the LO. Having them understand that upfront, has made the difference a few times that could have turned real ugly for me.

Shortly after that (if not already covered on the apt confirmation call) I will usually ask if they have been in contact w/ their LO recently and find out if the LO went over the numbers with them. Most of the time, I get a good LO and there are no surprises. But if they let me know they haven't spoken with anyone in a week, I make sure we have the LO's # out before we even start.

In your situation, once the BO saw that the #s were incorrect, the LO should have been called, because again,” I KNOW NOTHING". Once the LO confirmed that the numbers were indeed, incorrect, automatically, the signing is dead with the docs in hand. At that point (use CaliNotary words now).

A misspelled name here and there, SOMETIMES, might be an easy fix. BUT, a set of loan docs with incorrect numbers is a deal breaker, especially with the borrowers that were in front of you. Once you know it can't be saved, save your time and get home to your banana split

One thing you stated that you did do, was to try to smooth things over between the LO and the BO. Some might disagree with me, but to help maintain my "non affiliation" status, unless it is to pull up a certain page for the LO and BO to discuss, I do not get in the middle of the two of them. If it falls apart because the LO didn't keep an eye on it and has no clue what is going on (i.e. a bad LO), then it falls apart. It is not my job to save the loan in that situation. The LO is paid very well and is not sending me any "thank you" $$. I am also not about to open myself up to any possible legal liability, which I might inadvertently do if I attempted to mediate between them or help to explain something the LO can't seem to get across.

Sometimes, being too helpful could wind up being perceived as UPL, even without you realizing it. Just remember your roll in the process. You’ll end up with fewer headaches. Worse case, TC mistakes means new docs and a resign.

Reply by ClaudiaTX on 5/3/10 8:57am
Msg #334644

If they are not going to sign I do not waste my time. I walk away. If I don't get paid... at least my time is not spent trying to get them to sign. If they want to be contrary. Let them be that. Walk away. There is nothing you can do or should do.