Posted by Kay/IL on 5/20/10 3:35pm
Msg #337345
Illinois Notaries - Embossed Seals???
Do any of you keep embossed seals?
I recently did a closing where an out of state property was being refinanced. Now I get a call from the TC stating that this state requires an embossed seal before the mortgage can be recorded.
Anyone familiar with such requirements?
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 3:41pm
Msg #337347
Hmm according to your state handbook a notary must use a "rubber stamp" seal with black ink.
In Florida we also use the "rubber stamp" seal and it is not required we also have embossers (although I do have one which I only use, along with the rubber stamp seal, for documents going out of the country)
As far as I know the other state has to accept the notarization from the state where the notarization occurs.
Which state is it that is requring this??
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Reply by Kay/IL on 5/20/10 10:50pm
Msg #337432
Kentucky was requiring an embossed seal before they will record the document. However, the title company called again saying they spoke with a higher up at the recorder's office who informed them that they will accept the out-of state notarized doc with an acknowledgement, which had already provided.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/21/10 8:39am
Msg #337456
that's good Kay. My Kentucky handbook may be out of date - will have to check - but Kentucky notaries are not even required to use a seal when notarizing. Happy the title company rechecked.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 3:44pm
Msg #337348
Ocassionally I get requests from customers saying that they need the raised seal for such-and-such state which requires them, etc. It is not really any of my business and, although I know that an embosser is most likely not required, who am I to argue with my client over the validity of the notarization without an embossed seal? In some states embossers are so common that a notary's failure to use one, even in states who don't require one, is seen as suspicious. When a client tells me that their document requires an embosser for whatever reason, I keep my mouth shut and add the embosser like I always do.
I have always used an embosser with every notarization. I've never notarized a single doc without the embosser, and I've had nothing but compliments on it. I know there are many on NR that have the opinion that they have no obligation to go beyond the bare minimum requirements of their state. I have stated on this forum before that IMO - and this truly is just my opinion, and most on here probably disagree - we all have a duty to have an embosser where allowed by law in order to better serve the public. We are public servants and if a member of the public requires an embossed seal for whatever personal reason, we have the obligation, as a public servant, to comply. Even if, for example, Alabama will accept deeds notarized in other states without an embosser, if the client insists they need an embossed seal to make the deed acceptable in Alabama, than why should we refuse them? It is a lawful request.
I think the embosser is an important symbol of a notary's authority. Even though in Florida the rubber stam *is* our official "seal", the embossed imprint of a seal still adds that extra touch to the notarization which symbolizes the importance of the act and the authority of the officer performing it. I truly believe that there was somewhat of a conspiracy to do away with embossers so we notaries wouldn't think we were too important. As long as I am allowed by law to use my embosser I will continue to do so.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 3:56pm
Msg #337352
" In some states embossers are so common that a notary's failure to use one, even in states who don't require one, is seen as suspicious"
Suspicious by who??? An embosser does not validate the notarial act. The offical seal is the only seal that validates the notarial act.
the embosser is not an important symbol of a notary's authority anymore.
I have never had anyone be suspicious because I don't emboss every document that has a notary certificate on it.
No problem with you, or anyone else, who thinks using an embosser makes them appear more important doing so. I chose to only use the embosser on documents going out of the country. (and occaionally on the commemorative marriage certificates when I have performed the ceremony)
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Reply by LKT/CA on 5/20/10 4:09pm
Msg #337356
Me too....
<<<I chose to only use the embosser on documents going out of the country.>>>
I agree with Sylvia. And I also use an embosser on customer letters that are typed or handwritten.
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Reply by Julie/MI on 5/20/10 4:40pm
Msg #337357
"I think the embosser is an important symbol of a notary's authority"
What authority, Robert? I think many notaries think a wee bit too highly of themselves.
The only authority here is that we paid $50 bucks and a the general public didn't.
To original poster, which state was requiring the embosser?
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 5:45pm
Msg #337366
Even though in most cases it is not difficult to become a notary, we are still public officials and do have some significant authority. Oaths are powerful things IMO.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 6:00pm
Msg #337369
"we are still public officials and do have some significant authority."
Sure we have the authority to notarize - to take acknowledgments and administer oaths, and in our case solemnize a marriage.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 6:16pm
Msg #337370
IMO those are important duties. If they weren't important
the government wouldn't need to appoint so many people to administer them.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 6:19pm
Msg #337372
ROFL! n/m
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 6:27pm
Msg #337374
I'm glad you find your responsibilities funny n/m
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 7:12pm
Msg #337396
Nope - just found your post hilarious
maybe you are too naive to understand why I was laughing!
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:14pm
Msg #337400
Still waiting for your witty response from below :-) n/m
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 7:17pm
Msg #337404
Sorry
mother always told me witty responses are wasted on those who don't have a full wit:)
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:17pm
Msg #337405
LOL this coming from the queen of witty responses n/m
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 7:20pm
Msg #337409
Re: LOL this coming from the queen of witty responses
Ah but witty responses are wasted on those who don't have a full wit, so I did not want to waste one.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:21pm
Msg #337410
Gee, Sylvia. Not as witty the second time. n/m
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 7:33pm
Msg #337411
Re: Gee, Sylvia. Not as witty the second time.
You really are quite irritating Robert, as I said I wouldn't waste a witty response on someone who's wheels may be turning but the hamster is dead.
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Reply by CaliNotary on 5/20/10 7:13pm
Msg #337398
You really think the govt needs this many notaries?
That really is hilarious and shows how clueless you are.
You do realize that, barring any criminal activity that disqualifies you, they say yes to everybody that wants to become one?
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 7:19pm
Msg #337406
CaliNotary wins the gold cup:)
Just have to be a resident of the state, at least 18 years of age (oops Florida did slip up on that requirement), not a felon, and have the fee:)
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:20pm
Msg #337408
I was already emancipated and 2 weeks away from being 18
when I was appointed a notary public. Get over it already.
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 7:36pm
Msg #337412
do you by any chance speak spanish Robert? n/m
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:56pm
Msg #337417
A little. I took Spanish 4 years in high school. n/m
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Reply by bagger on 5/21/10 7:22am
Msg #337446
Re: I was already emancipated and 2 weeks away from being 18
Really?
I was under the impression that you had to be 18 to be a notary in FL.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/21/10 7:57am
Msg #337451
For all practical purposes I already *was* 18 n/m
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Reply by bagger on 5/21/10 9:41am
Msg #337464
Re: For all practical purposes I already *was* 18
Well Notroter's - Looks like we have caught Robert in a bald faced lie.
For all practical purposes, he was NOT 18 when he claims to have received his commission.
Since he threatens to report others to the SOS, maybe someone should consider reporting the liar.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/21/10 9:51am
Msg #337467
Report me? You and NR would be looking at a big fat lawsuit n/m
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Reply by bagger on 5/21/10 10:16am
Msg #337471
Re: Report me? You and NR would be looking at a big fat lawsuit
Now I'm scared.
What would the basis of your suit be?
All I would be doing is reporting a criminal.
And, one who confessed to the crime himself.
Seems to me like you cooked your own goose there Bobby.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/21/10 8:46am
Msg #337458
Re: I was already emancipated and 2 weeks away from being 18
"I was under the impression that you had to be 18 to be a notary in FL."
You do, the statutes clearly state:
(1) The Governor may appoint as many notaries public as he or she deems necessary, each of
whom shall be at least 18 years of age and a legal resident of the state.
Can you see a 20 year old being charged with underage drinking and saying "But officer, I will be 21 in 2 weeks".
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/21/10 1:03pm
Msg #337495
Florida Notary Application requires birthdate
As long as that was filled in properly, it does not seem like there would have still been a problem since the State of Florida approved it.
Emancipation documentation may have caused the commissioning office to waive the 18 year old requirement.
It would be interesting to know.
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 6:53pm
Msg #337382
we are public officials with LIMITED authority Robert,
don't get all big headed with THAT title.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 6:57pm
Msg #337383
No public official has UNlimited authority n/m
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 7:02pm
Msg #337386
this is where your ignorance really shines....
so your saying that all public officials, have UNlimited authorities in their duties? really?
you'll think differently again, once you've taken that US Constitution course in your next semester...
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:03pm
Msg #337387
Can you name one official that has no limits whatsoever? n/m
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 7:04pm
Msg #337388
nope...can you? n/m
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:05pm
Msg #337389
No, and that proves my point
DUH we have limited authority just like every other public official.
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Reply by CaliNotary on 5/20/10 7:10pm
Msg #337393
"Just like every other public official" - key words
We're nothing special, we perform a simple role in society, nothing more. I'm sorry that your ego needs to blow it up into being something it's not, but really all it does is make you look like a self important jackass.
Grow up and get over yourself, you're just a notary.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:13pm
Msg #337399
And Barack Obama is "just the president" for that matter n/m
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 7:15pm
Msg #337402
Some of us are trying to forget that Robert
However you are getting into the realms of "just politics", so I won't go into that.
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Reply by taxpro on 5/21/10 8:41pm
Msg #337585
LOL Sylvia! ROTFLMAO! n/m
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Reply by CaliNotary on 5/20/10 7:37pm
Msg #337413
Yes, they are exactly the same thing.
Barack Obama is one of 44 people to hold that job since our country was founded. You and I are one of millions who hold this job at any given moment.
But that you would pick the president of our country as the example to rebut my comment really goes a long way in showing the level of delusion you live under.
I once dated an actor. He was in his mid 30's and the height of his success was getting a recurring character role on "Just Shoot Me". I don't think he appeared in more than 10 episodes, and it was several episodes into his run before he even got to speak his first line. Basically, he was a glorified extra who would pop up in a single scene here and there, speak one or two lines, and that was it. But to look at his acting resume, you'd think he was name checked in the opening credits and submitting episodes for Emmy consideration at the end of the year.
I know he knew what his real contribution to the show was, but since he hadn't done anything more noteworthy in his career, he had to take something insignificant and inflate it to look like he'd accomplished something, when the truth was that that puny little nothing role was really just a monument to the complete failure of his acting career.
Notaries are glorified extras, not the star of the show. It's really time you learn the difference.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 8:02pm
Msg #337421
That's your opinion Cali. n/m
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 7:11pm
Msg #337395
touché - fell for your play on words...won't happen again. n/m
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 6:30pm
Msg #337375
" I've never notarized a single doc without the embosser"
You know, now you mention it, I have never notarized a single doc without the embosser, and I have never notarized a single doc with the embosser.
However I have notarized lots of signatures without the embosser.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 6:34pm
Msg #337377
Really?
I don't know what laws you follow, but my laws say:
"A notary public seal shall be affixed to all notarized paper documents"
- F.S. 117.05(3)(a)
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 6:47pm
Msg #337380
No witty response Sylvia? n/m
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 6:58pm
Msg #337384
Robert, you are wondering WHY she's laughing at you? Really?
READ HER POST over and over again.
Okay, forgot who I was dealing with.
The embosser itself on a document, doesn't make the document officially notarized...
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:01pm
Msg #337385
Did you miss the point of her post?
She was trying, yet again, to try and make me look like an idiot with the old "we don't notarize documents, we notarize signatures" argument. Well sorry, the statutes say a seal shall be affixed to all notarized documents. Therefore, we notarize documents as well. She's wrong, I'm right.
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 7:06pm
Msg #337390
no I didn't miss her point, but you clearly have and am
afraid you will not get it.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:06pm
Msg #337391
Really? I missed her point? What was her point, Cari? n/m
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 7:11pm
Msg #337394
nope so NOT going to school you on this one dude... n/m
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 7:13pm
Msg #337397
You make no sense Cari. You need to read the posts again. n/m
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 7:41pm
Msg #337414
YOU need to read her post again...I understand her post...
and was cracking the hell up over here, because I GET IT. You are totally oblivious as to what she really meant.
Then, on top of that, you are desperately trying to get us both to tell you her point? Not going to happen.
But I do agree with her, you are very annoying when you whine and can't have your way.
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 6:51pm
Msg #337381
'lawful requests' need to be addressed by each notary being
asked. Though I'm not sure if its actually illegal (just not required) to use in a certain states, but if it is, and a notary uses it, imagine that client taking that doc to be recorded in a deeds office or a courthouse for a legal case. Not only can the embossed document potentially invalidate the document (ie., not valid 'cause its not properly notarized), but the notary can be fined or cited for breaking state rules/law.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/20/10 3:52pm
Msg #337349
I keep an embosser for the same purpose Sylvia does.
The only request I have had where an embosser was required was for Indiana. Don't know if that's accurate or not.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 3:59pm
Msg #337353
"The only request I have had where an embosser was required was for Indiana."
from the Indiana notary laws.
Sec. 4. No notary shall be authorized to act until he shall have procured such a seal as
will stamp upon paper a distinct impression, in words or letters, sufficiently indicating his
official character, to which may be added such other device as he may choose and all
notarial acts not attested by such seal shall be void.
But, I think it is ridiculous that notaries in states where a rubber stamp is the official seal should be expected to purchase an embosser when it isn't a requirement for their notarial acts.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/20/10 4:07pm
Msg #337355
Like I said, I know that most on here will disagree
But, as very clearly stated in my OP, my opinion is that all notaries should have embossers whether required or not.
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Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/20/10 4:53pm
Msg #337358
To my knowledge, the Il NP Act (5 ILS .312) makes
no reference to any seal other than a (described ) rubber stamp .
IMO, an embossed seal on an IL notarization would have the same legal
effect as a gold star, pink ribbon or jelly stain.
A notarizaton valid where performed, is valid in any sister state per the
Constitution of the good old U S of A . .
There is a provision for official suthentication for foreign dox, but that would not be
applicable here.
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Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/20/10 4:56pm
Msg #337361
As an aside, if the TC wants to buy you an embosser, then
IMO there is no reason why you would not be able to emboss the doc.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/20/10 9:59pm
Msg #337430
That's great info, Bob. n/m
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Reply by parkerc/ME on 5/20/10 6:30pm
Msg #337376
I use an embosser
My state does not require either a stamped seal or an embosser, either is optional. But having been a notary in IL many many moons ago and using an embosser then (in a law office), it is my personal choice to use one here...and I do so all the time.
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 6:43pm
Msg #337378
have one for many reasons...you should get one though
its not required for Illinois. But lawyers sure do like it when you use it for their clients wills!
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Reply by parkerc/ME on 5/20/10 7:15pm
Msg #337401
Re: have one for many reasons...you should get one though
Yep, worked for an estate lawyer in IL during my younger years, so he wanted the embosser used.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 7:16pm
Msg #337403
Re: have one for many reasons...you should get one though
"younger years"
Cheryl - I see your photo, that can't have been much more than 5 maybe 6 years ago;)
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Reply by parkerc/ME on 5/20/10 7:19pm
Msg #337407
Re: have one for many reasons...you should get one though
Sylvia, you've made my day! Thank you! It has been 40 years since that time!! I'm one of them "seasoned" broads!!
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Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/20/10 7:43pm
Msg #337415
seriously, you look great Ms. Parker! n/m
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/20/10 8:12pm
Msg #337422
Re: have one for many reasons...you should get one though
"It has been 40 years since that time"
No Way!!!!
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Reply by Kay/IL on 5/20/10 10:59pm
Msg #337433
Thanks Everyone for Your Responses and Suggestions!
The title company called and informed me that an embossed seal was no longer needed. (This was for Kentucky.) However, I will order one just in case this issue or something similar comes up.
BTW, I have not used an embossed seal since the mid/late 1980's when I got my first full time job and had to become a notary as one of the job requirements.
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Reply by Pat/IL on 5/20/10 11:52pm
Msg #337435
Re: Thanks Everyone for Your Responses and Suggestions!
Wait! I haven't commented yet! I just have a few vaguely related thoughts to share on this discussion - the first being that I am amazed that there has been such a lengthy discussion about embossers.
I don't have an embosser, but I saw one in a museum once. I believe the reason they did away with the embosser, for the most part, is because the imprint doesn't reproduce well in a photocopy or microfilm. I do actually remember the days of bringing documents into the recorders office and waiting while the clerk shaded in the embossed area with the sideways pencil.
I don't need an embosser to feel important. I am able to achieve the same result by spelling my title differently - Notary Publique. Or, when I really need a lift, Notary Publique Extraordinaire. If I had an embosser, I'm afraid I might accidently emboss the dog or get my tie caught in it.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/21/10 8:41am
Msg #337457
Re: Thanks Everyone for Your Responses and Suggestions!
"Notary Publique Extraordinaire"
That fits you better, Pat:)
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Reply by Kay/IL on 5/21/10 12:00pm
Msg #337487
LOL@ Pat!!!!!! n/m
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Reply by BobbiCT on 5/21/10 7:23am
Msg #337448
Cite the US Constitution ...
Full faith & credit ... acts of PUBLIC officials in any state must be accepted by another state ... you are a commissioned PUBLIC OFFICIAL ... 'nuff said.
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Reply by EHarp/MO on 5/21/10 10:54am
Msg #337472
Re: Illinois Notaries - Embossed Seals??? The Purpose
The purpose of the embosser is for it to seal through all the pages of a document in order to prevent fraud. Once an embosser has been applied it would be very difficult to remove pages or alter the document once it has been sealed. I realize that the movement has been to the stamp. It is simpler and the documents tend to have too many pages to emboss through. However, I prefer to use the embosser in conjunction with a stamp. I can seal through multiple pages and it is an effective tool to prevent fraud.
A stamp is limited tool that will only appear on one page. The perception today is that photo copies are more critical than security. You can not miss an original document if it has been embossed. Just the same as you can wash a gel ink signature but a ball point presses into the page. The indentation will be there even if the ink is washed.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/21/10 8:54pm
Msg #337586
EHarp: The Purpose?
*The purpose of the embosser is for it to seal through all the pages of a document in order to prevent fraud. *
Well, that's one I have only heard said by notaries...never saw that in law or in a cite-worthy history lesson. Do you have a source?
I thought an embosser was to create an impression of the seal on the page of the notarization.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 5/21/10 8:59pm
Msg #337587
I only put mine on the notarization page n/m
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Reply by taxpro on 5/21/10 9:08pm
Msg #337590
Re: EHarp: The Purpose?
I don't know the original purpose of the embosser, but I think it is something that has become practically obsolete in most states. However, in states like Florida, where a notary can perform a wedding, I think it would be nice to have an embosser so you can give the happy couple a nicer momento of their marriage certificate, more "official looking", etc. But in most states, for regular legal documents the stamp works just as well, if not better. In my state (KS) handbook, it says "The notary public's seal must be either a seal press or a rubber stamp. If a seal press, the impression from the seal must be inked or blackened. If a rubber stamp, the stamp must have permanent ink. Both the seal press and the rubber stamp must be capable of legible reproduction after copying." So the embosser is optional, but must be inked over to be valid. So, they're saying "You can use this, BUT..." Other than for ceremonial purposes, I think the embosser is going the way of the buggy whip.
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