Posted by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 6:25am
Msg #335078

NNA finally gets something right: Protests...

They just published an article about these illegal protests. I'm glad they are finally trying to educate notaries on this rather than continue to sweep it under the rug. It looks like there are now some states cracking down on it, as they should be.

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Strange Requests Emerging from Growing 'Sovereignty' Movement
May 5, 2010

A growing number of Notaries are being asked to execute complicated and often antiquated notarial acts to help further the unusual agendas of individuals seeking to curb or eliminate the power of federal, state and local government agencies — and, in some cases, financial institutions.

Notaries, and government officials across the nation are reporting a sharp increase in the number of requests for protests and other uncommon, if not unauthorized, acts. The increase is due to efforts on the part of certain people to avoid paying taxes, mortgages and other debts and to assert immunity from government authority. These individuals often are inspired by the so-called “Sovereign Citizens” or “Freemen” movements. The National Notary Association’s Hotline reports a six-fold spike in calls relating to these types of acts.

One of the more common acts being requested of Notaries is a protest — a largely antiquated notarial act involving an unpaid debt. They are rarely performed today due to their replacement by modern electronic financial systems. Because protests and related documents, such as Certificates of Service, involve complex procedures and may require performing an unauthorized act, you may refuse to perform them, explaining that they require specialized training. Notaries should complete protests and related acts only after seeking the advice of a licensed attorney.

The resurgence of requests is driven by individuals trying to use otherwise legitimate notarial acts to transform themselves from debtors into creditors. One of the more unusual documents seen by Notaries is a Notice of In Itinere Status in which an individual claims to be “in” but not “of” the United States. Once notarized, the signers often request state authorities to authenticate them with an apostille and then use the documents to claim immunity from federal and state laws.

Some states are taking action to restrict or eliminate their use. Oregon recently enacted a law that permits only Notaries actively employed by banks and financial institutions to perform protests. California is considering a similar bill.

Utah recently passed a law that prohibiting the Lieutenant Governor — the state’s Notary-regulating official — from authenticating the notarization of any document relating to allegiance to or the authority of a government, such as in itinere status. Authorities there cautioned Notaries against notarizing these types of documents. Those who do would receive a warning and then could face disciplinary action if they continue to perform these acts.

Many of these unusual requests, such as certificates of service, require Notaries to certify facts or actions. One certificate of service reviewed by the NNA asked the Notary to attest to mailing several property tax documents to the local authorities, then sign, date and stamp the form, which does not contain the client’s signature nor any authorized notarial wording. Because the attestation on the certificate of service is not an authorized act in California, Notaries there who execute them could face disciplinary action for misconduct.

In general, Notaries should proceed carefully if presented with one of these requests. If the signer is requesting a lawful acknowledgment or jurat, you generally should comply. If there are doubts that a requested act is lawful, the Notary is justified in refusing to proceed. In addition, if the Notary has knowledge or a clear, reasonable suspicion that the document is going to be used for an unlawful or improper purpose the Notary should refuse to notarize the document, said NNA Vice President of Notary Affairs Charles N. Faerber.

If a signer becomes threatening or violent because a Notary refuses to proceed, it is better to comply with the request, note the circumstances in the record book and then report the incident to police, Faerber said.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/6/10 8:49am
Msg #335090

The warning is good, even though I no longer read their

material. I think there are some scam companies out there, selling people on the concept of using a legal (even though it's not) way to get out of their financial obligations. Desperate people will do desperate things.
The part that I find interesting is from paragraph 7, "....require Notaries to certify facts or actions". Any knowledgeable notary knows we don't do that--we witness signatures.
Thanks for the post, Robert. You might get some flack from those who think you are supporting the agenda of that particular organization.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 9:56am
Msg #335099

Well then, to clarify for the record

I do NOT support the NNA. I have never been a member and never plan to be a member. I think that their supplies and membership are overpriced. I also know that they give out lots of inaccurate information.

That said, I do not think that ALL of what NNA does is bad, like the above article for example. I also think that *SOME* of the portions of their Model Notary Act are good.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 5/6/10 12:28pm
Msg #335154

I Have to Disagree...

...& I just got off the phone with our MO SOS office to run this little scenario by them. This falls under the auspices of UPL in my opinion. It's not our job as a Notary Public to determine what the legal status of the document is. Our MO SOS has been getting all kinds of calls on this specific topic lately & the only thing we as MISSOURI Notaries need to concern ourselves with is the wording of the Notary certificate. Several documents have been sent to our MO SOS for review with the wording of the venue changed from "State of Missouri" to "Republic of Missouri" in the Notary certificate itself. That's where the State of Missouri says we have the right to either change that word to "State" to conform to MO Notary statutes or then refuse to perform our duty. Otherwise it's business as usual.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 1:33pm
Msg #335188

But these "protests" don't use standard acks/jurats

These protests most of the time have the notary certifying that they mailed certain documents... to my knowledge that is not an authorized duty in ANY state.

As for those sovereignty documents, IMO we have a duty to the state, so I don't think we should be notarizing anti-state documents. I would not be comfortable notarizing those documents and would refuse on those grounds (as stated on page 55 of the Fla. manual).

We took an oath to support, protect and defend the government of the United States and our state of appointment. Notarizing these government-protesting nonsense documents flies in the face of our oath of office IMO.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 5/6/10 2:04pm
Msg #335215

We All Run Into Situations...

...where the Notary certificates are incorrectly worded & there's a simple fix, you correct them to fit your state's Notary statutes. And just what bar exam have you passed which allows you to make the determination that a document is "anti-state" & thus illegal in your state? Is "anti-state" even a phrase used in your state's statutes? Why would you even want to consider hanging your hat on that as a reason to refuse to perform your notarial duties? If the State of FL allows you to refuse on any ground whatsoever (I'm assuming that from your response), then just simply refuse. The issue of the protests being "illegal" in Missouri isn't a concern we should have according to our SOS. So many of the disagreements on issues like this are state specific & is the reason I brought up the MO angle. The NNA's response isn't a "one size fits all" answer across the board.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/6/10 2:07pm
Msg #335221

Re: We All Run Into Situations...

Dennis
See my message 335167 posted earlier today

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 2:11pm
Msg #335225

Re: We All Run Into Situations...

Our handbook states that the notary can refuse if he/she is not comfortable with the request.

As a state officer, I am not comfortable with notarizing a document that will make it easier for some loonie to harass the state that gave me my commission.

My first duty is to the state. Before entering this position I took an oath that I would support, protect and defend the Constitution and government of the United States and the State of Florida.

My second duty is to the public. After taking my oath of office I was commissioned to hold this office "in the Name of the People of the State of Florida".

My last duty is to myself.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 5/6/10 2:27pm
Msg #335237

Then Refuse Away...

...I won't here in MO.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 2:28pm
Msg #335239

To each his own n/m

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 5/6/10 2:29pm
Msg #335240

No, It's to Each State Its Own. n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/6/10 1:41pm
Msg #335193

"One of the more common acts being requested of Notaries is a protest — a largely antiquated notarial act involving an unpaid debt."

But Robert, haven't you posted in the past that you perform this antiquated notarial act???

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 1:50pm
Msg #335202

I have done two protests - but not these illegal presentment things. I have done protests as described in the Florida Statutes.

A protest in simple terms is a certificate stating that a certain negotiable instrument (i.e. a check) was dishonored. It is the equivalent of a returned check that says "NSF" on it. Nothing more, nothing less.

These UCC government-protesting tax-evading loonies believe that a "negotiable instrument" includes letters demanding some kind of performance, and that if the government agency refuses to "perform" this is "dishonor". That is a complete misinterpretation of the law.

I have said it before, but if states actually educated notaries about what a protest is and is not, there would not any confusion.

The only law I follow with respect to protests is F.S. 673.5051(2), which states that a protest is a certificate of dishonor certifying that a negotiable instrument was presented for payment, and that the instrument was dishonored due to nonpayment/nonacceptance.

See my message # 310790.

Reply by Robert/FL on 5/6/10 1:55pm
Msg #335208

Forgot to mention

that I have confirmation from the Governor's office that this *is* an authorized duty in Florida. If I wasn't comfortable with that confirmation than I would not risk my commission by performing this duty.