Posted by Stringer_CA on 5/26/10 3:07pm
Msg #338384

Need to Vent

I had a signing this morning and I requested to see the borrower's ID. He states you are in my house, I am the person. I stated I agree-by law I'm required to see your identification and put it in my journal along with a thumb print. He really got upset and said he wasn't going to give me a fingerprint. He had refinance many times before and never had to give a fingerprint. He called the loan officer and complained. The loan officer asked to talk with me. He asked if this was a requirement-I said yes, according to my State-CA. After the telephone conversation, the borrower said, "show me where I have to show you my identification and put my thumb print in the book." I took out my Notary Public Handbook and showed it to him to read. He still had issues-but agreed to "sign and get this over with." The signing went well after 20 minutes of his complaining and phone call.

Reply by S Peterson on 5/26/10 3:12pm
Msg #338385

Has happened to me occassionally. After showing them the Notary Handbook and they still refuse, I just start quietly and quickly start packing up. They usually get over it real fast.

Reply by Sal Servin on 5/26/10 5:55pm
Msg #338410

Most smart thing to do. No ID...pak your things and wave goodbye to the JACKASS!!!

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/26/10 3:13pm
Msg #338386

I'm sad you had that experience not knowing what greed does, It doesn't matter if the LO was from Ca or not, they should have supported you. I hope that happens to me..from both of them.

Reply by meganPA on 5/26/10 3:13pm
Msg #338387

What the borrowers' seem to forget is that it's for their protection as well! We don't need to take fingerprints here in PA, but I sometimes encounter borrowers who are annoyed when I ask to see their original IDs. They don't understand why a copy of their ID isn't sufficient enough.

Reply by desktopfull on 5/27/10 5:26am
Msg #338468

We're asked to check the id, not the copy of the id, copies can be altered. I also match the original to the copy provided to return with docs.

Reply by Michelle/AL on 5/26/10 3:28pm
Msg #338392

Stringer, good for you for having your handbook with you.

I would've loved to have seen the look on his face when he read the requirement for himself. Alabama doesn't have a handbook but I think I will go ahead and print the few pages from the State Code and put it in my notary bag. It doesn't say much but "ya neva know".

Reply by Ali/IL on 5/26/10 4:42pm
Msg #338397

Re: Stringer, good for you for having your handbook with you.

I asked for someones id he said I let you into my home and you are asking me for an id? He showed it to me but, made the remark this must be very lucrative for you.

Another asked to see my id after I saw theirs. I didn't mind showing it to them but, when he went to write down all my info I said no.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/26/10 5:43pm
Msg #338408

Re: Stringer, good for you for having your handbook with you.

I realize that sometimes we just run into strange people - and it sounds like you did - and maybe the way you wrote your post doesn't reflect how it actually happened. But just in case, you might want to re-examine how you handle it to see if there's something you could tweak so that's less likely to happen again.

I always mention ID when I confirm the appointment to try to make sure it isn't going to be a problem. Then when I arrive, I don't *ask* them for their ID, I *tell* them something that makes it clear that I need to start by checking their ID - and I always smile big when I say that. I have a standard phrase I use that is very positive, non-threatening, and encourages us to get seated and get started. Most of the time it works well - but nothing works 100% of the time. However, in nearly eight years of doing loan signings, I don't recall anyone ever asking me for *my* ID.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 5/26/10 6:03pm
Msg #338412

i dont want to baby-sit or be baby-sat!!

These lenders, TC and SS need to email, fax and/or mail the borrowers a checklist of everything they need to have ready for us when we get there. That is not my job. I was about to order the Vu Point Magic Wand yesterday and I thought...why??? When I arrive at the borrower's house and he does not have a copy of his license, I tell him to scan/email/fax it to the lender within 24 hours so as not to delay funding. Come on people, its YOUR LOAN!! I am not taking anybody's bad attitude trying to help him out. I have never shown my ID to any borrower and if they ask for it, I will tell them to call the TC to confirm my identity. I'm sitting there with most of their personal info in my hands and they're playing games with me?? I don't think so. I'll walk out first.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 5/26/10 6:15pm
Msg #338415

Re: i dont want to baby-sit or be baby-sat!!

If a stranger shows up at my door and expects to spend an hour or two in my home, I think I'm justified in asking for his ID. I probably wouldn't, but I'm not going to be offended if someone else feels it's necessary.

Rarely is the borrower even told the name of the signing agent who will handle his loan. I don't think it is at all out of line for a borrower to ask for ID, and I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often; I've only had it once in seven years. Most of the time a business card suffices. But if he wants to see my TX DL, I'm fine with that.

As for writing down the information on my DL, he's got my business card. That ought to be enough.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/26/10 6:24pm
Msg #338416

Hugh, I agree 100% with everything you said.

No skin off my nose to show my ID. And, as far as them taking down my info? I agree with what you said about that, too. Not necessary.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 5/26/10 6:40pm
Msg #338419

100% Disagree - business card only, no ID

Its almost like the borrower is saying well since I showed you mine, then show me yours. No, we're not going to play tit for tat. Sorry. I do look forward to the day that someone asks me for it.

I guess when I walk in the door they can tell its the real deal. Must be how I carry myself. (shrugs)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/26/10 6:56pm
Msg #338422

Re: 100% Disagree - business card only, no ID

"Must be how I carry myself."

I think there's a lot to that. Plus our level of confidence, professionalism, etc. People read all that stuff in microseconds on a sub-subconscious level. A lot of it happens on the phone before we even arrive.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/26/10 7:25pm
Msg #338432

Re: 100% Disagree - business card only, no ID

<<<Plus our level of confidence, professionalism, etc. People read all that stuff in microseconds on a sub-subconscious level. A lot of it happens on the phone before we even arrive.>>>

I totally agree with you, Janet.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/26/10 10:47pm
Msg #338462

Yes, JanetK, breaking that ice during the confirmation call

seems to set the stage for happy signings.

Once, a little old lady (hooo) gave me a 'password' to use at the gate when I rang to enter the gated community. I loved it - "Pre-approved."

Reply by desktopfull on 5/27/10 5:31am
Msg #338469

That's why I don't understand the "don't call borrower"

before the closing instructions. Your right it helps in alleviating the borrower's fears of letting a stranger in their home, especially with the problems of a few with fake census credentials attacking people and doing home invasions that have been in the news lately.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/26/10 7:43pm
Msg #338434

It's interesting that you and so many notaries react

to this so strongly.

To me, it seems perfectly natural for someone to inquire about who is carrying their documents. I have never been asked, but it would neither offend me or make me see a play for "tit for tat". And, even if I did sense tit for tat...well, maybe I just don't take things so personally.

After all, it's not besmirching my character because the borrower has concerns or a possible level of immaturity (playing tit for tat).

Maybe I am missing something. What is the reasoning not to put them at ease if this would do so?

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/26/10 8:24pm
Msg #338443

Re: It's interesting that you and so many notaries react

I personally make every effort to do this before I ever arrive. It is not very comfortable to arrive at someone's house and they were expecting someone else...if you get my drift!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/27/10 7:14am
Msg #338474

I have no problem showing my ID if asked

I've been asked once for my ID, didn't blame the gentleman for asking and had no problem with it - I understand the "I have his loan docs who does he think I am" arguments, but realize that, as is always my case, I show up at his door and, yes, he was expecting me - but he doesn't see documents, he sees a woman standing there....do all of you hold the docs in your hand when you ring the doorbell or knock or are they in a briefcase? Chances are they're in a briefcase so all he sees is *someone* at his door with a briefcase - so IMO asking for ID from someone about to enter your home is perfectly understandable.

Can they copy it? No...write it down..no...they have no need for that where we have to comply with lender instructions and state journal requirements regarding theirs...but I'll show my ID and don't blame these people in the least bit.



My .02 FWIW

Reply by SueW/Tn on 5/26/10 7:50pm
Msg #338437

Re: Hugh, I agree 100% with everything you said.

I'm in 100% with Hugh and Bren, I've been asked once to see my DL (from a male BO) and I didn't have a problem with that. Very upscale golf course neighborhood, lots of old money floating around. I frankly don't understand how anyone could feel insulted by that request. This is business, it's not personal.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/26/10 8:33pm
Msg #338445

Re: Hugh, I agree 100% with everything you said.

as far as I know, the TC/SS will tell the BWR to expect a call to schedule a signing time from "a notary". That I know. What gender, etc is open ended. Where I live, we are very diverse and short of a cross dresser showing up, people here rarely even blink. In almost three years of doing this only once did I feel odd about an assignment and that was because the person changed their mind after I spoke with them and decided to get their own notary. My take on it was, everyone has a right to work with someone they feel comfortable with. No problem, I feel the same way.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/26/10 8:41pm
Msg #338448

Hey...I'm there to get 'er done.

If that means they want to see my TDL, alrighty then!

Reply by BossLadyMD on 5/26/10 6:32pm
Msg #338418

its the lenders responsibility

When I refi'ed a rental property, I noted the gentleman's name & number off of my caller ID. When he came to my house, it was 9am and I noted the type of vehicle he was driving. I never disclosed that I did this type of work. My lender told me to have a copy of my driver's license for the signing agent. I was also aware of the name of the TC and their contact number. The signing agent also left a business card. I was home alone, hubby was at work. The signing agent also explained to me why he needed to see my ID and he certainly had a good portion of my personal info in his hands.

I have never had a borrower ask me for ID. Is it because I am a woman? Not sure. My vent is for those people who have nothing ready for us when we arrive or act surprised by our requests. In my opinion, it falls to the TC or SS, and ultimately the lender, to prep borrowers for a smooth and painless transaction. We're simply the conduit. I can say that my lender and TC went the extra mile for me. If these lenders really cared about their customers, they would do the same.

I once had a SS ask me to call the borrower and tell them that the loan was delayed and we may have to bump the appt back. I told her that I have an even better idea - why don't YOU do it. Why on earth should I call a borrower and try to explain why the docs are late. Not my responsibility. Just like I am not gonna beg someone to give me a copy of their ID. The lender should have reviewed the Patriot Act with them during the loan app.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/26/10 7:06pm
Msg #338429

I totally agree with you on these points.

There is a limit as to how much kicking I am willing to receive. My responsibilities are clearly outlined in almost all confirmations I receive. There are things I do as a courtesy that are not mentioned on the confimations, but this is not one of them. The borrowers have their set of responsibilities, as does everyone else in this chain. If the LO wants to be the weakest link, so be it. There is nothing I can do about that.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/26/10 8:40pm
Msg #338446

REREAD THE FIRST POST !!!!

Nothing in it said the borrower wanted to see the Notary's ID. The borrower was complaining about having to show his ID to the Notary and didn't want to give fingerprints. How did the conversation go off on this path?

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/26/10 8:55pm
Msg #338449

oOH Yea - silly me...I take back everything I said..bwr, see

you at Starbucks, more comfortable there.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/26/10 9:10pm
Msg #338452

Re: oOH Yea - silly me...I take back everything I said..bwr, see

The signing location is immaterial - he doesn't want to show you his ID or give you fingerprints, period.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/26/10 9:06pm
Msg #338450

"How did the conversation go off on this path?"

What is different about today than any other day? That's what NR discussions do.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/26/10 9:10pm
Msg #338451

Lisa - it was Ali's fault - yep, yep - and the rest followed

with their important comments.

And, thus, life continued.....

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/26/10 9:16pm
Msg #338455

Re: Lisa - it was Ali's fault - yep, yep - and the rest followed

LOL!!

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/26/10 9:15pm
Msg #338453

Re: "How did the conversation go off on this path?"

Yes, Brenda - I guess that's what keeps the forum active and non-boring.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/26/10 10:30pm
Msg #338461

Agree, Hugh. OR notaries are no longer allowed to record

a signer's DL Number, only the date of expiration and birthdate. I'm not going to give any more personal information to borrowers than I recorded about them in my journal. Privacy works both ways.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/26/10 7:00pm
Msg #338426

Re: i dont want to baby-sit or be baby-sat!!

I am usually listed on the HUD......I CALLED and ID myself, I set the signing time (usually) and I tell them what I need (cashier's check, copy of driver's Lic, etc) and then arrive at the agreed upon time.

Why am I being asked to ID myself after giving you my business card? I ask if the TC/SS explained to them the process (usually no) then I tell them about my purpose for being there...never show ID. I would but it's not necessary. This has only happened once (recently) and it was obvious they where being coerced and didn't want to sign in the first place, no sign.

If I didn't show my ID would it jeopardize the loan? Whose loan is it and where did I get the Docs from..? Come on it's your loan....agree with BossLadyMD

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 5/26/10 11:00pm
Msg #338463

This really puzzles me

***These lenders, TC and SS need to email, fax and/or mail the borrowers a checklist of everything they need to have ready for us when we get there. That is not my job.***

I really don't understand this attitude. My job is what I and the hiring entity agree that it is. If we determine that my job is to wax the borrower's car, then I'll break out the Turtle wax. I'll get paid appropriately for it, but if I decide it's part of my job, then the car gets waxed.

What I don't understand is the vehement resistance to either informing a borrower of the necessity of having a driver license or to collecting a driver license. That's never been an issue with any of my clients. When I call I tell the borrower they will need a copy of their DL. Often, the loan officer has already told them one is needed. If they don't have it, I tell them they need to fax it to their loan officer before the three-day rescission period expires.

What on earth is the issue with that? If I functioned solely as a notary public, I might be reluctant to provide an additional service unless I was paid an additional fee, over and above that for my notary certification. But I'm a signing agent, and that is part of the service I provide my clients as the party on the scene and in the best position to collect ID.
hough it is definitely the loan officer's responsibility to let the borrower know who has to be present for the signing, I also attempt to ascertain who needs to be there in my confirmation call to the borrower, and remind him. Again, I think that's part of my role as a professional signing agent.

And, having too many times been asked to close on a coffee table, because the dining table was full of junk, I always tell the borrower we need "plenty of working space, like a dining table that's been cleaned off." It works. I assume you would not also regard that as the responsibility of the loan officer?

I

Reply by BossLadyMD on 5/27/10 1:11pm
Msg #338551

lenders, TC, or SS dont dictate my job; not their employee

I do not just simply sign 'contractual agreements'. I am not an employee of the lender, TC or SS. Also, Maryland is a title producer state, therefore, I explain to the lender, TC, and SS, what I am going to do as the title producer at the signing (as prescribed by law). Further, my identity is already unique in that I also have a license number, not just a commission. My business cards have my license number on them. When I call to confirm the appt with the borrower, I explain what I will do as a licensed title producer and give me contact information. The borrower knows at that very moment that I'm a professional and knowledgeable. I guess that's why I dont get interrogated once I get to the house.

Again, it is the lender's responsibility to put the borrower on notice as to what to bring to the table. It is the borrower's responsibility to produce it or have it available to me.

Several of us on this post agree that we will not babysit borrower's who may be just looking for a way to get out of the loan. You don't know if they're now having second thoughts and are frustrated and taking that it out on you. I'm thankful to have not had those negative experiences.

I really don't understand this attitude. Why would you even WANT to give your signing agent a hard time?

Reply by Sal Servin on 5/26/10 5:54pm
Msg #338409

What a Jackass!!!!... Yep!...once in a while you get a real Jackass.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/26/10 7:18pm
Msg #338431

Most people these days have had their signature notarized on "something".......this man is probably no exception so he knows he must show a Notary his ID because some of the loan papers must have his signature notarized. He's refi'd before and knew you were coming, so his attitude is bizarre.

If you were stoic, unsmiling, wouldn't say two words to him, acted like you didn't want to be there, or gave off any negative vibes/energy - he may have been offended by that and gave you grief on purpose. If you were friendly, smiling, and sweet as pie, then he's a nutcase and needs a therapist. How was the confirmation call? How did you greet him when he opened his front door?

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/27/10 3:38am
Msg #338467

...sounds like this guy came off a mountain somewhere...

...surprised he didn't meet you at the door with a shotgun, wearing overalls touting a 2ft long gruffy beard?

...hell, I'm suprised he knew how to read let alone write!

Glad you only had to endure 20 minutes of his bullcrap...

Reply by S Peterson on 5/27/10 9:20am
Msg #338500

Re:.surprised he didn't meet you at the door with a shotgun

That can happen here in the high country. I always tell people the kind of vehicle I'm driving and add with a chuckle, "please don't shoot me." I arrived at a borrower's house up "in the mountains", they had a dirt circular driveway and in the middle of the circle was a huge tree with a target sign nailed to it that said, "You're within range!"

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/27/10 10:43am
Msg #338518

Oh man...should've took a pic of that for your profile pic! n/m