Posted by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 12:27pm
Msg #336266

Please Help!

I have been researching this question and cannot find any information on it. So, I thought maybe I could get some help here. Here is the question:

When closing on an adjustable rate loan in a spousal state, what document the non-borrowing spouse has to sign?

It is not the Note. I thought it was the TIL but I am not sure and I can't find any information on the subject.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/13/10 12:30pm
Msg #336267

"Please Help!" is not a meaningful topic.

You should not be attempting a loan signing if you do not know the answer to this very basic question.

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 12:47pm
Msg #336275

Re: "Please Help!" is not a meaningful topic.

If you do not want to help just don't reply but don't insult my intelligence. I recently started as a SA and unfamiliar with some of specifics in the field. I paid beaucoup money to be a certified agent but I got a raw deal because they taught me very little in IMO to go out there. So, I get a lot of information through research on my own or by tapping my network for information. The purpose of this forum is for everyone to explore and grow and hopefully we can learn from each other. No one should be belittled for asking questions.

Reply by John/CT on 5/13/10 12:58pm
Msg #336281

Narlyne ...

I don't believe you were "belittled for asking questions." by Ernest; his reply was the hard-edged truth ... as much as you may not have liked it. I'm sorry you "got a raw deal" from we all know who, but a little research before hand ... especially right here on NR, with all the resources available ... just might have saved you a lot of grief and $$'s. For starters now, I suggest you go to Msg. 33325, using the Orange Search Button. Good luck!

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:07pm
Msg #336296

Re: Narlyne ...

I did research this site and others but most of them are very general. In fact I accumulated a list of the documents (depending on lenders) that are often required to be signed by the non-borrowing spouse. My question though has a different flare. I am trying to find out which of these documents specifically co-relate with an "Adjustable Rate Loan"? This is why I thought of the TIL or the RTC.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/13/10 3:17pm
Msg #336364

Re: Narlyne ...

They don't "co-relate". You need to go back and review your study materials -- or try to get your money back. I don't think the money you paid was to anyone on this forum and no one owes you an answer. If you want to get help, you're going to have to lose the attitude.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/13/10 3:17pm
Msg #336365

Re: Narlyne ...no you didn't

"I did research this site and others "

Nope..you didn't..if you truly searched here you would have found numerous posts about this very subject...this has been discussed many many times.

Try searching again...try "NOBS"...remember it IS state-specific and subject to lender instructions and requirements.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/13/10 1:02pm
Msg #336288

Re: "Please Help!" is not a meaningful topic.

" I paid beaucoup money to be a certified agent but I got a raw deal because they taught me very little in IMO to go out there"

Then I would complain to those who certified you - being certified should not be bought, it should be earned!

But the question you asked, as you must see from the responses, cannot be answered with a simple answer. The hiring entity is the only one who can let you know what the non-borrowing spouse needs to sign.

Your post is one of the reasons that when I hire notaries for signings, the designation "certified signing agent" means diddly squat, and I do not want inexperienced signing agents doing my signings.

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:15pm
Msg #336307

Re: "Please Help!" is not a meaningful topic.

"Then I would complain to those who certified you - being certified should not be bought, it should be earned!"

Unfortunately, this school was highly recommended and most of the ones who attended did not think it was a good class. I went and got books on the matter and educate myself on my onw. In addition, I have friends who are mortgage brokers, notaries, real estate agents who have been in the business for a long time and they also helped me bring my knowledge up to par. It was never my intention to purchase my way through the certification process. The school failed to deliver.

Reply by John/CT on 5/13/10 1:36pm
Msg #336325

Huh?!?!

You said, "this school was highly recommended and most of the ones who attended did not think it was a good class." "Highly recommended" on one hand, and "not ... a good class." on the other. I'm confused ... why did you even bother?

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:48pm
Msg #336332

Re: Huh?!?!

I did not exercise my due dilligence to make sure it was as good as they said. I will never do that again.

Reply by desktopfull on 5/13/10 5:27pm
Msg #336393

Re: "Please Help!" is not a meaningful topic.

Actually it sounds like your looking for an answer to a test question. Otherwise, ask your lender what docs they want the non-borrowing spouse to sign.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/13/10 12:30pm
Msg #336268

Narlyne
This is something you need to ask the title company, as they want different docs signed by the non-borrowing spouse. The mortgage, all riders to the mortgage, and the RTC are just some of the docs the non-borrowing spouse should sign. But again, this is something you need to find out from the hiring party.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/13/10 12:30pm
Msg #336269

Is this for a test??? n/m

Reply by John/CT on 5/13/10 12:35pm
Msg #336271

Good question, Sylvia. Methinks so ... n/m

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 12:58pm
Msg #336282

Re: Is this for a test???

Yes it is.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/13/10 1:06pm
Msg #336295

Re: Is this for a test???

Then the test is based on your knowledge. If you don't know the answer to a question, then just say so, rather than to get others to answer the questions for you.

Incidentally, some of those companies that require a test do read this forum.

Reply by John/CT on 5/13/10 12:33pm
Msg #336270

You should have found the answer in your instrctions, or get specific guidance from the service that engaged you. As a rule, the dox would include the RTC, Mortgage, TIL ... and in some cases ... the Correction Agreement, as well as any document that has the NBS name pre-printed.

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 12:52pm
Msg #336278

I've checked other discussions on this forum and I already accumulated a list of all the possibilities. I was trying to pinpoint which document out of the list would have to be signed by the non-borrowing spouse in the case of an Adjustable Rate Loan? This is for a test and maybe someone from a title company could help.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/13/10 1:04pm
Msg #336291

It doesn't matter whether it is an ARM or a fixed loan.

And someone on here from a title company could only tell you what their company requires, which could be different than other title companies.

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:18pm
Msg #336308

I think your answer confirmed my research. I did not think the documents signed by the non-borrowing spouse edge on the type of loan being given. Thank you

Reply by parkerc/ME on 5/13/10 12:42pm
Msg #336273

Re: Spousal documents

Whether you are in a spousal state or not does not seem to matter. It's what SS/Title instructs. I am in a non-spousal state. Have had docs where spouse does not sign anything, and have had docs where spouse signs TIL, Itemization of Amount Financed, RTC, and Mortgage/DOT. If there are no docs that have spouses signature, call your hiring agency to be sure. . they often forget to type spouses name on those docs. Do a search here, this has been covered many times.

Reply by mwm143 on 5/13/10 12:43pm
Msg #336274

What is the fee being paid for this assignment? n/m

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 12:57pm
Msg #336279

Re: What is the fee being paid for this assignment?

No fees involved. This is a test. Again, I am trying to establish the correlation between an Ajustable Rate Loan and THE document that must be signed by the non-borrowing spouse in a marital state.

Reply by John/CT on 5/13/10 1:00pm
Msg #336284

Same correlation for both Adjustable & Fixed Rate loans. n/m

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:20pm
Msg #336309

Re: Same correlation for both Adjustable & Fixed Rate loans.

Thank you. Someone else said the same thing and I pretty much came to the same conclusion but I was not certain.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 5/13/10 1:01pm
Msg #336287

Re: What is the fee being paid for this assignment?

More than one document, but if you're only having to pick one, I'd say the Mortgage/DOT. Let me know if I passed!

Reply by SharonMN on 5/14/10 12:07pm
Msg #336526

Whatever ones the TC tells you to get signed!

My answer would be: Whatever documents the title company or signing service tells me to get signed by the non-borrowing spouse. My job as a signing agent is not to interpret the law and decide who should sign what; it is to faciliate the execution of a properly prepared document package.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/13/10 1:01pm
Msg #336286

Narlyne admits it is for A TEST!!!

Tests are designed to test INDIVIDUALS, not everyone at Notary Rotary.

I'm very sorry she feels she got a raw deal. She still needs to do her own tests!

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:22pm
Msg #336310

Re: Narlyne admits it is for A TEST!!!

I did my research and I just wanted to bounce my findings off of someone.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/13/10 1:02pm
Msg #336289

Answering this question encourages cheating. n/m

Reply by parkerc/ME on 5/13/10 1:05pm
Msg #336292

Re: Answering this question encourages cheating.

After having to run the gauntlet of this forum, I'd say she deserves a logical reply.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/13/10 1:08pm
Msg #336298

No, she doesn't deserve a reply.

She is trying to cheat on a test.

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:27pm
Msg #336316

Re: No, she doesn't deserve a reply.

Cheating means I put no efforts in finding the answer. I did research the subject extensively. I was looking for something a little bit more conclusive to make sure I am heading in the right direction. By the way this is not a test where I will be graded. The test is intended to make me research subjects unfamiliar to me.

Reply by desktopfull on 5/13/10 5:34pm
Msg #336394

Re: No, she doesn't deserve a reply.

Researching means looking for the answer to the question yourself, not getting on a forum and asking other professionals the answer to your test question. Graded or not that's cheating.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 5/13/10 1:12pm
Msg #336304

Re: Answering this question encourages cheating.

Hmmm. And I always thought that analyzing the responses on this NR forum was a good form of research. And research is needed to find answers to questions. I guess I was mistaken.

Reply by PAW on 5/13/10 1:25pm
Msg #336315

Re: Answering this question encourages cheating.

No, you are not mistaken. This question, and many others asked by the new comers to the field, are answered is one form or another right here. There are also other resources that one can use in researching for answers. However, to blatantly ask for an answer to a test question does not help the test taker learn. It simply provides an answer that may or may not be correct in one particular circumstance. (Part of the problem lies in the question itself. Many questions are not applicable to everyone or there may be different correct answers depending on the situation and/or location.)

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/13/10 1:29pm
Msg #336319

PAW is correct, as usual.

An experienced NSA who takes a multiple-choice "certification" test will find that there are questions which do not have a correct answer listed!

Notary Rotary is not, and should not be, a replacement for paid training or real-world experience.

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:29pm
Msg #336320

Re: Answering this question encourages cheating.

Read my answer to Ernest regarding the purpose of the test.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/13/10 1:33pm
Msg #336322

Cheating is cheating. You cheated, Narlyne. n/m

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:42pm
Msg #336328

Re: Cheating is cheating. You cheated, Narlyne.

Everyone is entitled to their opinon. I completed my Masters in Information systems and I am accustomed to working with teams where we would research different topics, have lively discussions of pros and cons and find commonolities on which to write a final paper. I thought the intent of this forum was to create team players. I guess I am wrong to think so. Next time I want to do indepth research on a subject, I will take my discussion elsewhere where openmindedness is a factor.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/13/10 1:49pm
Msg #336333

Goodbye, Narlyne. n/m

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:55pm
Msg #336336

Re: Goodbye, Narlyne.

Goodbye, Sir. I mistook you to be a "professional". What childish behavior!!! Truly pathetic and unfortunate.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 5/13/10 4:22pm
Msg #336381

Narlyne, what works well in corporate America

is not the same as being a business owner. You may not believe this, but each and every one of us here on this board is competition to every other person on this board. The amount of shared information you will find here is completely out of the norm in the busines world. MacDonalds is in competition to Burger King and neither asks nor shares information. This would not be good business sense. This board readily shares much good information even though we are competitors. You may be in one state and I in another so you feel there is no competition, but there is because the notary that lives in the next town over is reading the information here, not just the notary across the country.

What you were trying to do was CHEAT. You even asked the question directly as it was on the test. A test is a test of one's own knowledge. You are the one responsible for researching the correct answers. Not this board. Most of us have taken multiple tests for various SS and TC over the years. We had to do it without a mentor sitting beside us feeding us the answers. That is what tweeked the board. And when you were caught, you copped an attitude. If someone on this board wants to mentor you or anyone else, that is their priviledge (just not a good business decision), but to expect that this board would be WILLING to answer your test questions for you is a sign of big brass ones.

Reply by desktopfull on 5/13/10 5:38pm
Msg #336395

5 star answer!!! n/m

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/13/10 5:57pm
Msg #336396

Brava, Dorothy!!! n/m

Reply by jnew on 5/13/10 1:52pm
Msg #336335

Adjustable rate rider

Reply by Narlyne Desir on 5/13/10 1:55pm
Msg #336338

Thank you.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/13/10 2:04pm
Msg #336341

Maybe it's just me... but if you're taking a test, shouldn't you ALREADY know the material? If you have to research an answer during a test, it seems you aren't ready to take it.

Just my thoughts.

Imagine being in a room full of people taking the Bar exam, standing up and saying, "Help! I don't understand this question... let's work together to figure out the answer."

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/13/10 2:08pm
Msg #336343

Good plan, Marian! n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/13/10 2:15pm
Msg #336346

Re: Good plan, Marian!

I think her problem was in how she approached it.

But yeah... she's got some big ones for admitting to needing help with a test question -- at NotRot of all places.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/13/10 3:07pm
Msg #336358

it doesn't matter whether the loan is a arm, reverse or what

ever....it depends on the state that the property is located in!

Reply by MW/VA on 5/13/10 4:30pm
Msg #336383

What docs a NBS signs varies by state. They, of course,

would never sign the Note (loan agreement) regardless of what kind of loan it was.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/13/10 4:59pm
Msg #336387

Re: What docs a NBS signs varies by state. DISAGREE

State law determins if a spouse has an interest in a property owned by the other spouse when the NBS is NOT on the title.
In many "spousal states" this applies to the "Marital Home"
Once state law determines that there is such an interest, then the NBS needs to
make their interest in the property being mortgaged, SUBJECT to the lien of the mortgage.
That is usually accoumplished by having the NBS sign the mortgae, or , in some cases.
a separate doc which states that ther interest in the PIQ is subject to the lien of the morgage.
As someone with an ownership interest in the PIQ, then per FEDEFRAL law they are entitled to a copy of the TIL (if a TIL is reqd for the type of loan)
This can be established by the NBS signing the TIL and Itemiaztion.
If the loan is subject to a RTC (again per FEDERAL law), then all parties with an interest in the PIQ have a RTC.
In that case, they need to receive two copies of the RTC. If they sign the RTC doc, then
they are acknowleding receipt of their copies.
Some lenders and title companies may requaire that a NBS signs certain addtioal dox.
Examples MAY include the HUD, correction agreement E & O . name affidavit and certain
title dox. ,This is up to the particular lender/TC
Not legal advice, yada yada.

Reply by FAN_IL on 5/13/10 6:23pm
Msg #336398

Re: Ethics, English as a Second Language, & Logic

are the courses you should be taking, Narlyne. I find it shocking that someone, who so obviously has as much difficulty speaking and comprehending English as you do, would purport to be able to handle loan documents as a title company's representative at a closing. You have no business representing yourself as such.

Secondly, by the very nature of their commissioned capacity as a notary, notaries are supposed to be ethically above reproach. You came on this board asking for help while initially withholding the fact that you needed the information because you were taking a test; so by omission, you misrepresented the situation because you were, in fact, trying to cheat.

Thirdly, you would have us all believe that you took a course, got ripped off, did a lot of research on this site and from other sources, and still couldn't find the answer, but ALL of it is absolute hogwash.

You're just trying to dupe well-meaning people into giving you the answer because you were in a hurry and didn't want to do the work. The answer to the question is profoundly simple for anyone who knows anything about a loan closing, and if you didn't know it off the top of your head, it's easy to research in a minimal amount of time, and more than that, it's actually easy to logically think through just by the process of elimination.

For any given state, there's only one document that differs the loan package of a fixed loan from that of an adjustable one which must be signed by a non-borrowing spouse. It's not rocket science.

You, Narlyne, have a lot to learn, not just about being a signing agent, but about life in general, because your conduct is most unbecoming.