Posted by Julie/IL on 5/21/10 6:32pm
Msg #337560

They are now only paying $100 for edocs

and want the entire pkg faxed back. They have opened up at least 2 new offices. One in CA and one in TX. Told them no can do, but give us a call when your new way doesn't work out. Sad.

Reply by taxpro on 5/21/10 6:41pm
Msg #337561

Are you talking about Bank of America and/or New Millineum? $100 for edocs with entire package faxed back? What a joke!! I guess I just lost one of my favorite clients.

They've gone cheap recently, then found out the only notaries they could get at that price are sloppy and inexperienced notaries, who make a lot of mistakes. That's why they want the entire package faxed back. That way they can make the newbie notary fix their mistakes, which includes going back to the BO's house to get docs resigned, before sending the package back.

They'll get what they pay for, I guess. It'll be interesting to see how it works out for them.

Reply by John/CT on 5/21/10 6:46pm
Msg #337562

You got it!

Fax bax are NOT a BofA requirement. I do a lot of BofA's for other services, and not one fax bak page is required. Strictly a signing service (not even title) thing.

Reply by taxpro on 5/21/10 6:51pm
Msg #337564

Hmmmm, interesting

I've done a lot of BofA signings for other title and signing companies, and never had to fax back the entire package. The NM scheduler implied it was a BofA requirement, so I thought maybe it was a new thing for BofA. Guess not. Sounds like it's just New Millineum. Did they get ahold of some incompetent notaries or what?!

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/21/10 6:58pm
Msg #337567

Re: You got it!

true...I do lots and lots of B of A...NEVER ANY FAX BACKS

Reply by Jim Coffey on 5/22/10 8:36am
Msg #337636

the real reason for complete fax back, is they don't have to scour through the package. The faxback becomes their office file. Therefore the notary is doing their office work. Just don't do it. Send the package back without doing all these faxes.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/22/10 9:02am
Msg #337637

"Send the package back without doing all these faxes"

And then the notary risks not being paid for not following instructions....strange advice coming from the owner of a SS...

Reply by Grammyzoom on 5/21/10 7:16pm
Msg #337573

I am so tired of hearing everyone complaining about what they are getting paid for signings. If you don't like it, QUIT! It is so easy to say "I won't leave my house for less than $XXX so good stay at home. If you get signings offered at a ridiculous fee then don't take them.

I just think that in order to survive in this business we do need a little flexibility and if you need to take $20 or $25 less than what you are used to then go with the flow. I personally would not want to even think about going out and getting a job. I love what I do and as I said in a previous post, I will survive! That does not mean that you should take those $50, $60 or even $75 signings. It just means that small adjustments in our thinking need to be made to keep us going. Just remember, a lot of us got spoiled when we were in such high demand and the money was flowing. Things have changed. You need to change with them or become extinct like the dinosaurs.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/21/10 7:56pm
Msg #337576

There's changing with the times

And then there's bending over. I don't think that accepting a 20% reduction in fees, combined with a new requirement that adds about 30% more time to the signing falls under the category of "flexibility".

Reply by Grammyzoom on 5/21/10 8:12pm
Msg #337579

Re: There's changing with the times

I agree and am not suggesting that anyone do work for which they do not get paid enough to make it worthwhile. I personally know what it costs me to do a signing. My toner, printers, home office, paper, supplies, fuel and upkeep on my vehicle. Unless I want to go back to Escrow, which I sure don't, I am willing to make adjustments to change with the times. And for those adjustments I get to keep the clients I have worked with for years, have an opportunity to build a new client base, do work that I enjoy and, all things considered, pays me well.
So all I am trying to say is that anyone who wants to continue to do this work needs to understand what is going on in this economy. There are companies who will take advantage of the slow times and will expect us to "bend over". You don't need to take work from these people if you choose not to. However, there are some good companies out there who are also just trying to stay in business and in order to do that can no longer pay us what they used to. So, use your best judgement but inflexibility will get you one thing. Another profession!

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/21/10 8:23pm
Msg #337582

Re: There's changing with the times

Of course they can afford to pay us what they used to. All they have to do is keep charging the borrower the same amount for our service and they can keep paying us what we're worth.

One other cost you forgot to factor into New Millennium signings is the cost of all of the rescheduling you have to do due to the docs not being ready on time. I have lost literally thousands in signings over the past 2 years because I was already booked with an NM signing, only to have that signing not happen at the scheduled time, which means I would have been able to do the one that I turned down after all. I'd estimate that at least 1/3 of my NM signings end up being rescheduled, a year ago the number was more like 50%.

If you want to justify accepting ridiculous lowball fees in the name of flexibility, go right ahead. One thing I've discovered about this industry, it seems that whenever I lose a company that was giving me a decent amount of volume, the financial hit that I take is never anywhere close to the amount of signings that I've lost from that company. The income from the signings that I would have otherwise had to turn down fills in most of the gap quite nicely.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/22/10 6:22am
Msg #337628

Re: There's changing with the times

I agree with Cali. I've already lowered my fees 20-30% from what I got all day long three years ago. Anything lower and it's just not worth it (ala John_NorCal).

And to address Grammyzoom's other point of getting out of the biz if you don't like it - I having been working on doing just that for a year and a half. I've been taking classes at my local community college so I can learn a new profession. I'm finally at the point where I can apply for jobs and once I secure one, I will continue to work for my regular clients who still pay a decent fee. All others, my competition can have them.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 5/21/10 8:01pm
Msg #337577

With all due respect Carol

Your remark "if you don't like it, QUIT" is what I would define as rather self-serving considering your other business is NSA training classes. The more that quit, the more slots open up. It's a win/win for you. And yes, things definitely have changed BUT encouraging someone to take a 30-40% cut in fees just to get business strikes me dumb. I made my choice a couple of years ago when I went from full time to PT rather than cut my fees so I could work harder for less. The secret is to work smarter, not harder. I am in agreement with Cali here.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 5/21/10 8:29pm
Msg #337583

Re: With all due respect Carol

You are right but I want you to think about this another way. I have said before my motto is "the cream rises to the top". If all of the really good people refuse jobs that pay a little less (NOT 30 - 40% that is more than what I am talking about), then all that are left to do the work are untrained and unprofessional signers.

What I would actually like to see is those people who don't know what they are doing to leave the arena and stop ruining the reputations of those of us who care. I said the other day that we need to stick to our guns and I still believe that but what good will it do to be totally inflexible? If we show these people that we are willing to bend just a little then they are much more likely to hire people who are good at what they do and leave the $50 signings to those companies who care only about the cheapest fee and don't care who they hire.

I don't know if I am making myself clear but, for myself, I will not devalue what I am worth, but I want and need to keep on working and if taking a few dollars less for a signing from a company I trust and have worked with for a long time is what it takes to keep on paying my bills then so be it. It is like wanting to have steak for dinner. I cannot afford filet mignon but can afford an occasional Porterhouse. Still a good steak just not filet. But if it is a matter of having Porterhouse or nothing I will happily take the Porterhouse.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/21/10 8:39pm
Msg #337584

Re: With all due respect Carol

"If all of the really good people refuse jobs that pay a little less (NOT 30 - 40% that is more than what I am talking about)"

But that's exactly what New Millennium did, it's not just "a little less". The dollar amount isn't 30%, but when you throw in the time and cost of faxing back the entire 150+ package on every signing, the net result is easily over 30% less.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 5/21/10 9:00pm
Msg #337588

Re: With all due respect Carol

The one I did this morning was a fax back of about 27 pages that's all. I have a good fax machine so it went quickly and cost me nothing.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 5/21/10 9:05pm
Msg #337589

Plus the need to purchase

a newer, faster, larger document tray fax machine is a cost I'm not willing to lay out at this time, just to save them the price of having someone in their office scan the docs in. And that's what it's all about, folks. It has NOTHING to do with inexperienced notaries. If it did (and one that comes to mind is Service Link), you would not be able to drop the docs until they call and give the OK. If it is Fax and Drop, you're purchasing equipment they don't need to and saving the cost of the person doing the scanning. Another way to tell is if they want the WHOLE mortgage/DOT faxed and not just pages one, signature and acknowledgement page (that's QC, scanning requires the entire mortgage/DOT.

Reply by taxpro on 5/21/10 9:11pm
Msg #337592

Hadn't thought about that, Dorothy

I just assumed they'd gotten a lot of mistakes in loan packages lately. But you're probably right, they're just pushing more of their work onto us. But you're right, why wouldn't they want us to wait for approval before dropping the docs if that was the case? Wow.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/21/10 10:30pm
Msg #337607

Dorothy - I'm so glad someone else gets this!

This has been going on for years...scanning by notaries in order to increase the notary's value to them as clerical support. I have been saying this for a long time.

You're exactly right.

QC scanning would be a few signature pages. The "fax" they receive comes to them in PDF. They send it to the client to add value to their services...at the notary's expense.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/21/10 10:46pm
Msg #337610

Just maybe..

you can Fax them back as "read only by recipient" forcing them to print them out anyway. just a thought.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/22/10 6:39am
Msg #337633

Re: Just maybe..

* Fax them back as "read only by recipient"*

I know you can do that with PDFs if you have Acrobat, but never saw this feature on a fax machine or fax software or with such as efax or UReach. Thoughts?

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/22/10 8:28am
Msg #337635

Re: Just maybe..

I don't have any other thought Brenda other them my original idea, but I'll research it and let you/everybody know.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/22/10 10:44am
Msg #337656

Brenda Re: Just maybe..

After reading the specs...one of the things you can do is change the image quality (resolution) on the fax you send, they will not be able to clear it up. I don't think anybody is going to same, oh your fax isn't good enough. My thought.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/21/10 9:09pm
Msg #337591

Faxing back 150 pages would take awhile as I'd have to feed my machine 10 pages at a time to ensure each sheet went through completely. Fifteen sets of 10 pages would take me an hour or more, so a whole package fax back to me is worth *at least* an additional $50. If they won't agree to add the extra $50 for a full package fax back, then can call someone else. My time is not free.

Reply by taxpro on 5/21/10 9:20pm
Msg #337593

Exactly, LKT. I have a pretty good MFC machine, with an automatic document feeder, but that doesn't mean I can just set a pile of 150 pages on it and press start. I have to babysit it to make sure only one page goes through at a time, and to make sure the whole thing goes through in one try. No matter how good your machine, they sometimes pull an extra page or two, and I have to make sure every page goes through. If it's 150 pages, I don't know if the memory will even hold that many pages, so I'd have to watch it and see if I need to send a separate fax or not. Now, without the closing instructions, it wouldn't be as many pages, but that's not really the point. I think BofA is taking screwing NM, who is screwing notaries in turn, and it will come back and bite them all in the butt at some point. But the question is, will they even realize the reason they're having problems? They usually don't.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/21/10 9:26pm
Msg #337594

<<<I have a pretty good MFC machine, with an automatic document feeder, but that doesn't mean I can just set a pile of 150 pages on it and press start. I have to babysit it to make sure only one page goes through at a time, and to make sure the whole thing goes through in one try. No matter how good your machine, they sometimes pull an extra page or two, and I have to make sure every page goes through.>>>

7 stars for you, taxpro , and a homemade apple pie!!!

Reply by taxpro on 5/21/10 9:32pm
Msg #337595

Thanks! Send that apple pie right over, please!

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/21/10 9:35pm
Msg #337596

I Decided to not take jobs requiring Fax Back period....I don't want to stand and fax back anything. Of course I am not getting those jobs. About a 1/4 of the time they will recant and say oh that's okay (must be they were running out of NSA).

When I asked about the faxbacks I was told the Docs had to go to various places when they are returned so it's easier to have the notary fax back the Docs which eliminates a step for them back at TC.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 5/21/10 9:42pm
Msg #337597

I had a BOA and Millineum closing yesterday and they wanted the whole package faxed back..I was not happy but I took it as they met my fee and it was within walking distance for me..But the bo refused to sign..There was a $6.00 dollar difference in the payment that irrated them..after many problems that was the last straw! Thank goodness it was so close for me!

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/21/10 10:03pm
Msg #337601

Looking at the big picture can you just imagine how much money they are saving in terms of lost employee productivity as a result of us doing the job? Now they don't have to worry about people calling in with a headache the next day, etc.

If I were back in the workforce doing my previous job and had the opportunity, I would do the same. I would double my bonus. I really guess it all depends on which side of the fence you're on. IMO

Reply by taxpro on 5/21/10 10:25pm
Msg #337605

A $6.00 difference?!?!?!?!?! OMG. Well, if there were a lot of other problems, I guess I can see that being the last straw. But really, $6.00 a month? Yes, glad it was close for you! I hope you at least got a decent no-sign fee.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/22/10 9:33am
Msg #337644

I don't think Millenium pays anything for a no-sign, if I remember the email they had sent a few months ago.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/22/10 1:26am
Msg #337623

"When I asked about the faxbacks I was told the Docs had to go to various places when they are returned so it's easier to have the notary fax back the Docs which eliminates a step for them back at TC."

Finally! An honest person!!!

Reply by 101livescan on 5/21/10 11:53pm
Msg #337619

I guess if you had nothing else to do, this might be acceptable, but it is time consuming, and if you have signings back to back, you don't really have time to sit around faxing back the entire package.

I got $125 this week for NMT including fax backs, but it was a hassle because my scanning resources are not what corporations have, and even my local title company's fax machine stalls out with memory issues. It took four separate faxes to get 150 pp faxed back and too much of my personal time. Not the work that makes you any money when you consider the time making sure all the pages feed properly for scanning.