Posted by pat/WA on 11/20/10 12:04pm
Msg #362140

Happy Hour borrowers

Last night we had borrowers that I am convinced had had a martini or two. Mr. Borrower had difficulty siging his name. He would start, then scratch it out and start again. Don't know what title is going to do with this. (Yes, I had him initial all his scratch outs)
Mrs. Borrower wanted to add 97 cents to her payment to principal and then she decided on $10.97. It was an interesting signing to say the least.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/20/10 12:46pm
Msg #362154

Would have been in your best interest to abort signing n/m

Reply by pat/WA on 11/20/10 1:54pm
Msg #362163

Re: Would have been in your best interest to abort signing

You are probably right.
They did seem to understand the documents. He just had a problem with eye hand coordination. She was just plain silly at times and quite lucid at others.
Anyway I completed it and submitted it. Let you know if there are any repercussions.

Reply by MW/VA on 11/20/10 2:59pm
Msg #362170

Re: Would have been in your best interest to abort signing

Absolutely. I don't know that I would have posted that you did a signing where the borrowers were clearly "under the influence".

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/20/10 6:46pm
Msg #362201

yeah, I'm with Susan on this... n/m

Reply by James Dawson on 11/20/10 3:20pm
Msg #362174

Was there someone else with you? I only ask because you stated "we".

Reply by pat/WA on 11/20/10 4:34pm
Msg #362186

Yes, I was not alone and the borrowers clearly understood their documents and what they were signing. In addition to this, they had a 3 day right of recission. We felt very comfortable continuing the signing. We do feel it would have been a wise choice if they had postphoned happy hour. This is not the first time we have had signings at night where the borrowers we inbiding in a glass of wine or a cocktail.

Reply by James Dawson on 11/20/10 5:02pm
Msg #362189

tell me about it, most of my signings are after HAPPY HOUR.

Reply by Virginia/PA on 11/20/10 3:24pm
Msg #362175

Sounds like they didn't take too seriously the documents they were signing. Or they may have been celebrating extra money in their pocket.

Reply by James Dawson on 11/20/10 3:30pm
Msg #362177

These type situations could lead to serious problems, a call to hiring party describing your comfort level might not be a bad idea. Safety first is not a bad motto. IMO

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/20/10 3:50pm
Msg #362178

I have had such signings in the past. I do ask a few questions about current events to see if they understand what is happening. I have postponed a couple of them to later in the day with the warning that if they were in the same condition when I came back, it would be a no-go. That got their attention and they sobered up. Of course, it they would have been in the evening, that would have been a different story. If you take such action, you have to keep the party that hired you and the loan officer in the loop.

Acting in the Monday morning quarterback position, I would nave not continued with this one, but it is one of those deals where you "had to be there."

Reply by Tracey Baker on 11/20/10 4:16pm
Msg #362182

hmmm, if i explain the docs (w no upl of course), and the bo r unable to absorbe it, not on me,,,,, i still think they have a 3 day right of recission, look at it tomorrow....

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/20/10 6:01pm
Msg #362195

Re: Happy Hour borrowers....Disagree

"if i explain the docs (w no upl of course), and the bo r unable to absorbe it, not on me"

Yes it is on you - not only from a doc signing viewpoint but from a notary standpoint....being alcohol or drug impaired is, IMO, no different than being mentally incompetent -

From a notary standpoint, in FL we have to be sure our signers are cognizant of, and understand, the documents they're signing. If they're impaired in understanding, chances are they're impaired in their judgment too -

"i still think they have a 3 day right of recission, look at it tomorrow...."- as a notary, that won't work - what do you do? Contact them the next day to see if they've looked things over with a clear head?. One can't notarize tomorrow or the next day just because signers were too sloshed to understand today.

MHO

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/20/10 4:23pm
Msg #362185

<<<Mr. Borrower had difficulty siging his name. He would start, then scratch it out and start again.....Mrs. Borrower wanted to add 97 cents to her payment to principal and then she decided on $10.97 >>>

Clear indications to stop the signing and call the hiring party.

Reply by John/CT on 11/20/10 5:35pm
Msg #362192

Agreed ... impaired capacity. Could be a problem later n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 11/20/10 5:01pm
Msg #362188

I’ve done many signings in bars and restaurants, where alcohol was present and served. I always refused to have a drink, except non-alcoholic. I’ve never had a problem, except with the lightning. I will say that I’ve never done a closing where the signers were drunk, or not cognizant of what they were signing.

Reply by pat/WA on 11/20/10 6:14pm
Msg #362198

They were not drunk and they were very aware. they appeared to have had a cocktail. I don't drink.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/20/10 6:54pm
Msg #362204

Pat, since you don't drink let me give you some advice

When folks have a "cocktail" and then can't write their name, you can pretty much count on them not being able to pass a sobriety test. And no matter how much you're going to hate hearing this...they'll blame the whole thing on you if anything "happens". That's the world we live in, let the "stuff" roll downhill.

Reply by HisHughness on 11/20/10 9:26pm
Msg #362213

Re: Pat, since you don't drink let me give you some advice

I'm virtually a teetotaler, and I hate to come down on Pat. But it seems to me that if something does "happen," he (she?) shares in the responsibility. S/he has proceeded with a signing where there are obvious questions about the signers' capacity to comprehend the proceedings. If there were questions about the cognition of an Alzheimer's patient, would anyone on this forum have proceeded?

Granted, the signers themselves were responsible for their incapacity. Probably, though, that would work only to mitigate the agent's responsibility, not eliminate it. And even if it did, the hoops the agent would have to go through to achieve that could well be devastating professionally and financially.

Reply by Les_CO on 11/21/10 10:08am
Msg #362232

Re: Pat, since you don't drink let me give you some advice

If I were to use Hues guidelines, the past four closings I’ve done for Attorneys would have to have been adjourned. Quote “signer’s capacity to comprehend the proceedings” Why is it that some half-wit that finally passed the bar (not the one Hue doesn’t drink in) think they KNOW everything? Some of these people just don’t get it. I say you sign these docs AS THEY ARE…NO CHANGES or you will NOT get this loan. You’ve had weeks to review this process with your LO/and lender, now is NOT the time to change things. Again either sign these docs as they are…no changes…or don’t get the loan, or I can just leave, I actually have better things to do than argue ‘points or law’ with you. I’d MUCH prefer to deal with a drunk than a dim-wit lawyer. JMO!

Reply by LynnNC on 11/20/10 10:32pm
Msg #362216

So, what do you say to the inebriated borrowers...

...when you tell them the closing is adjourned? "I am sorry, you are drunk and in no capacity to sign"?

Reply by HisHughness on 11/20/10 11:10pm
Msg #362217

Re: So, what do you say to the inebriated borrowers...

I'm okay with that.

I'm even better with it if it keeps me out of a courtroom.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/21/10 6:31am
Msg #362222

People can be far more devious than we wish to believe

I've never had to deal with anyone obviously inebriated, but have had to walk away from people otherwise challenged - it IS absolutely difficult & discomforting - once it was even heartbreaking - but it's far less difficult/heartbreaking than to face accountability.

The possibilities in such scenarios are endless. There can be enticing motivations for people to obtain a mtg under situations they might be able to 'remedy' in court. If I've learned anything in life, it's that you can't read a book by its cover.

"Your honor, I can PROVE my cognition was impaired because...
... I had just received a DUI on my way home."
... We'd just come from a party that we have on DVD."
... the bartender & our waitress are here in court with us to testify."

I've always been a cautious sort, but now all the more so. Joe Public's general view of banks & lenders has been thoroughly demonized, and the courts are full of cases trying to capitalize on that in any way they can.