Posted by pat/WA on 11/10/10 11:13am
Msg #360505

INTIALS

This has been addressed before. But, has anyonee had a title company request that every page be intialed?

Reply by Sandra Clark on 11/10/10 11:17am
Msg #360510

Yes but only 1 or 2 that I can remember. Forgotten who requires it on their files.

Reply by LindaD/NJ on 11/10/10 11:17am
Msg #360511

Yes, Big PIA. But I follow their instructions. It's a bonus when they forget to put that in!:}

Reply by RedBaron/IN on 11/10/10 11:20am
Msg #360513

Yes. Nearly everyone that calls me ask that every page be initialed or signed & dated.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/10/10 11:27am
Msg #360517

yes, once a blue moon & if attorney present at closing, they

usually make their clients initial each and every page....BIG PITA!

Reply by SharonMN on 11/10/10 11:30am
Msg #360520

I've had a few lately from Century Docs/LSI that require this.

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 12:49pm
Msg #360533

Re: INTIALS - Insanity

It is not a legal requirement for anyone to initial each page, only a courtesy of the borrower. A title company or bank cannot reject any documents for lack of initials since the borrowers signed the document. Signing a document with any necessary notarization is all that is legally required.

When companies ask for us to have the borrowers initial each page, it is often overkill and unnecessary. It causes them to have to work very hard to initial 100+ pages. I agree to have them initial the deed and note and any preprinted lines for initials but will not put the borrower through that craziness. It's insane.

Instead of expecting the borrower to initial each page unnecessarily, it would be great if banks would not file fraudulent documents and use robo signers to cover up their fraud. It would also be helpful if banks would not foreclose on properties they have no legal title to and those homes that the borrower has fully paid for. Blaming the borrower and expecting them to slave over these loan documents is nothing more than psychological manipulation that has ZERO legal basis. The borrowers don't have to initial each page if they don't want to.

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 11/10/10 12:54pm
Msg #360535

Although we all know what we know..

Unfortunately, it's not our call to make. If they want initials, they get initials from me.

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 1:05pm
Msg #360542

Re: Although we all know what we know..

I don't give over my power that easily to mindless requests. When you cooperate it creates a precedent of expectations. It is legally unnecessary. There is no law that states every page of a contract must be initialed in order for it to be valid. Now if our government officials want to initial each page of legislation they pass, I might be for it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/10/10 1:03pm
Msg #360540

Re: INTIALS - Insanity

"I agree to have them initial the deed and note and any preprinted lines for initials but will not put the borrower through that craziness"

Not your call to make - if required by title or lender, that's what they get.

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 1:10pm
Msg #360544

Re: INTIALS - Insanity

As a notary it isn't my job to have the borrower initial each document. These banks are sometimes expecting 10-15 notarization for two borrowers. Now they want to add to my time by expecting the borrower to initial each page? I will have the borrower initial each page if they pay for my time for them to do so. $60 for a signing doesn't justify my time.

Stop cowing down to these banks demands is what I say. If they want to pay more then I'll do more. They are adding on extra things to do for them and the notarization are very time consuming. They must be done at the table and can't be taken home to do later.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/10/10 1:13pm
Msg #360548

It's called Customer Service....and if my TC's

want me to get pages initialed, I'm not cowtowingto anyone - I'm doing the job they're subcontracting out the way they want it done.

And, by the way...$60? Uh..no...and if you're accepting $60 for signings, well, that explains it.

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 1:19pm
Msg #360560

Re: You've Got to Draw the Line Somewhere

Well I made the classic mistake of signing a contract with a fee. I learned on this forum not to do that in the future. No, I make the decision if initials on all documents are necessary. Notaries are always being asked to do more. I'm not a bank's puppet, not a mindless robo signer willing to do anything for a fee like a whore does for her pimp.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/10/10 1:26pm
Msg #360572

Boy, your competition is just loving you!!! n/m

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 1:41pm
Msg #360583

Re: Boy, your competition is just loving you!!!

LOL, go ahead take all the initial work from me. The $60 is going to break my back!

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/10/10 3:20pm
Msg #360615

Re: INTIALS - Insanity

Are you aware that your fee is about half of what you could be getting on a regular basis for signing a loan with e-docs? Not sure which company you signed the contract with, but there's plenty of good companies that pay a decent fee that you should not have to continue accepting work from that $60 company.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/12/11 11:40pm
Msg #368342

Re: INTIALS - Insanity

***As a notary it isn't my job to have the borrower initial each document.***

That's quite true. Not your job as a notary.

But let me put a bug in your ear: It damned well IS your job as a <signing agent>, unless what you have been asked to do is unlawful. If it is lawful, and if the hiring party tells you to do it, and if it is within the scope of the duties of the signing agent, then you do it. If you don't want to do it, don't disregard the instructions -- decline the assignment.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 11/10/10 1:15pm
Msg #360554

Yes. Initials on every page is a PITA. n/m

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 1:27pm
Msg #360573

Re: The Law

As previously stated, the law rules this issue. There is no legal requirement of the signers to sign any area except the signature line, except where there is no initials predisclosed space. In fact, a bank can technically reject documents that are improperly initialed. I've had agencies tell me NOT to have people initial in the margins, etc.

If banks want them initialed, they need to provide the initial spaces at the bottom as is protocol. This is so the SA isn't blamed by the borrower for expecting something unnecessarily.

Have you ever been to a signing where the borrowers are already pissed off at the banks with their 5 month process to acquire their refinance? They already don't trust you. Now all of the sudden you want them to initial all pages without any indication it's necessary?

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 1:29pm
Msg #360576

Re: The Law **correction**

As previously stated, the law rules this issue. There is no legal requirement of the signers to sign any area except the signature line, except where there is an initials predisclosed space. In fact, a bank can technically reject documents that are improperly initialed. I've had agencies tell me NOT to have people initial in the margins, etc.

If banks want them initialed, they need to provide the initial spaces at the bottom as is protocol. This is so the SA isn't blamed by the borrower for expecting something unnecessarily.

Have you ever been to a signing where the borrowers are already pissed off at the banks with their 5 month process to acquire their refinance? They already don't trust you. Now all of the sudden you want them to initial all pages without any indication it's necessary?

Reply by James Dawson on 11/10/10 1:29pm
Msg #360574

Intial every page is one way to assure the borrower is

presented the Doc, that's the way I look at it. How does the TC know the borrower every saw them?
Just FYI, I have never been asked to initial every page but if asked, I'd do it. When I present Docs to the borrower and there are six pages of escrow instructions, I count out the six pages to them to make sure they got them. What's wrong with that? As a previous poster said, it's called service.

Reply by SReis on 11/10/10 1:34pm
Msg #360581

Hate doing it but I will if asked...

Sometimes causes issues w/those borrowers that want to analyze every doc though, esp when you given them closing instructions to initial & they start evaluating everything listed. I try to tell them that it is really for the title co. but some just won't listen. Still if title/lender wants it I do it.

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 1:38pm
Msg #360582

Re: Right to Cancel Sigs and Copy Are Enough Assurance

Oh, there's no problem making sure all the documents are there, that is our job and service.

I take issue with notaries willing to do anything for banks that are not legally necessary, to put borrowers through more grief. If they really cared about whether the borrowers read the statements prior to signing, then they'd have the courtesy to provide an emailed or mailed version prior to the signing for them to review. Sometimes they do, but many times they just call the borrower up out of the blue demanding they attend to their loan documents, on their vacations or wherever they are.

When someone signs a document and it is notarized it is legal. We all know most borrowers don't read the documents they sign. They wait until later to read the docs and decide if they want to cancel. That should support the reasoning behind why initials are unnecessary. In refinancings they can cancel in 3 days and are left with a copy of the docs. That is enough evidence they signed the notice to cancel.

We all know borrowers scan docs over for specific points. Very few borrowers read every document they sign and to have them initial they do is a lie and forcing the borrower to lie that they read the page.

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 1:58pm
Msg #360589

Re: Right to Cancel Sigs and Copy Are Enough Assurance

Most people don't understand bank language. If banks want to put their documents in layperson language that would be more helpful then expecting borrowers lie by claiming they read each page they initialed at a 45 minute signing.

I'm just feeling very upset about what's happening in our country right now. I'm sorry, just blowing off a little steam. These are good people who just want a nice home to live in, they're not trying to pull anything against these banks. They are being expected to go through a lot for a refinance these days and I'm wondering what next will be expected of signing agents.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/10/10 2:09pm
Msg #360594

Every borrower is a grown-up, and every one of them

has the right to request/insist/demand documents in advance. They seldom DO, but that doesn't mean they couldn't.

Perhaps it's because I've worked on the other side of the street for so long, but I don't think borrowers are held as responsible for their own doings as much as they should be.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/10/10 1:52pm
Msg #360586

Adding my points ....

1. Notarizing a document does not make it "legal"

2. Per the closing instructions (i.e.contract), the documents of the lender are the property of the lender, and the lender has the right to have their documents executed as they require.

3. Typically it's SS's that most often want every page initialled, and it's a quality control mechanism - they're controlling your quality. Regardless, if the contract for service asks for this, that's what I give them.

4. If you're contracted with to provide Notary Public services ONLY - then have at it. If you advertise yourself as and contract your services as a loan signing agent - your service should follow common/routine protocol (if you like doing this job).

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/10/10 1:55pm
Msg #360587

Re: Adding my points ....

Amen Renee...reading further on this page of threads I'm seeing this notary has been a signing agent for a year, is asking the correct way to correct dates on an RTC AND giving out legal advice on exactly what a bank can/cannot request. Oh please give me a break!

Like one of my fellow SA's have already said: "I bet your competition loves you"

Reply by nobhill on 11/10/10 2:14pm
Msg #360601

Fee reductions for missed initialed pages?

I think you might understand what I meant by legal. It is a legally binding legal instrument when it is signed by the borrower, and if a notarization is required that's just another part of the process. I'm not saying notarizing makes it a legal document in itself. I took a paralegal course with a 4.0 GPA and am more familiar with the laws then most notaries.

Anyway, there are no initial spaces at the bottom of some pages and not others. Yet if the agency types in an email they want all documents initialed it contradicts the documents themselves. I've had agencies give me incorrect instructions before, such as print out on all legal pages simply because other notaries cut off text by not having the proper settings. So I guess I'm saying I don't trust what agencies tell me because many times they don't know what they're doing. I question things.

For instance, I'm told to fax the documents back by the agency but the title company sends me an email saying its unnecessary as long as it's over nighted. When you begin following these mindless procedures, you may be doing extra work that makes no difference and isn't required. I view the initialing requirement is overkill due to the notice to cancel. There are laws that enable the borrower to get out of their refinance.

So I question authority because sometimes it sets a new precedent that is completely unnecessary and creates more work. What if we miss one initiated page, can it give a new reason for the closing to be rejected? Can your fee be reduced for missing initials? Yes. They are setting this precedent and now if you miss initials it is viewed as your mistake. So notaries cooperating with this request have opened the door for fee reductions and other people's jobs who need to check over each page.

My job:

1. Printing and prepping docs
2. Contacting borrower to confirm and give necessary info
3. Getting to appointment
4. Conducting signing professionally, doing 8-15 notarizations
5. Quality control of docs, and FED EX UPS overnight

New job responsibility - making sure each page is initialed - a new way for agencies to reduce your fee for an oversight.

Reply by LndWelch/CA on 11/10/10 2:50pm
Msg #360606

Re: Fee reductions for missed initialed pages?

Last week I had two signings that required initials on every page. These were my first to require that, and believing it to be overkill, I contacted the SS, who in turn had their client call me. I explained the inconvenience to the borrower(s) and the possibility of a signing going south if I were to request this to an already stressed borrower. In both cases I was told to just have them initial the necessary docs - DOT, Note, Hud, W9 and 4506 instruction pages and 1003 ...
If something seems wrong I feel it's OK to question it...

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/10/10 3:06pm
Msg #360609

I don't see where there's any stress to the borrowers

with this!! I've had this requirement several times and, in all cases, I preface the signing with "title and your lender have requested that you initial all pages that you don't sign, so please don't put your pen down"....none of my borrowers have been stressed over this. IMO if this stresses them, then there are other factors at work here than just merely initialing each page.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 11/10/10 2:52pm
Msg #360607

Re: Fee reductions for missed initialed pages?

"I took a paralegal course with a 4.0 GPA and am more familiar with the laws then most notaries".

Did they teach you in that class only a lawyer can practice law? Pssttt...not trying to be mean but that's what most of us "just notaries" understand to the letter.

Reply by Virginia/PA on 11/10/10 4:05pm
Msg #360628

Many loans from Loan Processing Center of Kentucky through National Loan Closers require initials on every unsigned page.

Reply by Les_CO on 11/10/10 4:08pm
Msg #360630

Yes. Some required by lender (I think Residential Acceptance) some required by Title (I think Fidelity National, and 1st American) and I believe one SS some time ago, that is no longer in business. I see it as just part of the job. No big deal.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/10/10 4:28pm
Msg #360634

My Chase loans from LSI require initials on every single page. That's EVERY page - even the ones with signature. Talk about a PITA.

Reply by Pat/CA on 11/10/10 5:04pm
Msg #360645

Re: INTIALS CHASE/LSI in PA

TICKED! That's what I am! So I saw this thread earlier and thought "Phew, glad I haven't had THAT one!" Well I just got it for my 6 pm signing with LSI, Chase loan.

What upsets me the most is that I received this assignment last week, along with the confirmation. Nowhere in the confirmation instructions did it state this requirement, but now, just a few hours before, it does.

I just called and asked about it and was told that since he's been there, about 8 months, ALL signings require it and "goodbye!"

You want to know another potential problem with this: Having a back-to-back appointment and the initialize every page people are slow and shakey in their handwriting. It can throw off our entire day and THAT is not right!

They think they have to babysit us! It's that we have to babysit their manipulative, deceitful ways!!!!!!!!

Reply by parkerc/ME on 11/10/10 5:18pm
Msg #360649

Just got my first "initial all pages" one today. It was a JPMorgan Chase, but obviously it was Title who was requiring initials on every page, because have never had to before with Chase.

Reply by KSdawn on 1/12/11 7:30pm
Msg #368317

I had my first initials on everything a while back and now make it part of what I do unless instructed not to have the borrower initial every page. I explain to the borrowers in the beginning that this is my notice to the lender/title company/signing service that I have presented them with every page in the package, not that they are acknowledging that they have read or even understand what is on the page, but that it was part of the package presented. I also explain that the documents they are signing with complete signatures, I will confirm that they understand before expecting them to place their signature on it.

If you think that you will get docked for missing initials then I suggest you make sure your borrower initials every page. I think we do a disservice to our borrowers if we don't show them every page and if you are booking yourself so closely that them initialling every page causes problems to your schedule, I recommend you allow yourself more time in between appointments.