Posted by Billy Le on 11/29/10 7:47pm
Msg #363104

Lender Require borrower to sign 2 Notice of right to Cancel.

Hi everyone,
I had a very interesting thing happen to me today. The Lender call my signing company and complaint that a signging I did a few day ago was missing the a Notice of Right to Cancel(NORTC). Further inquiry to the situation, the signing company explain to me that I did send them the NORTC(one for each of the borrower), but the signing package had a total of 4 NORTC 2 to each of the borrower and all of them should be sign. I have never had this requirement before. Lesson learn, I will just have the borrower signed all the NORTC in the signing package from now on.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 11/29/10 7:49pm
Msg #363105

Lesson learned is right. Its not up to us to decided how many or what get signed. If there are 12 NRTC, have all 12 signed. You can call to see if they actually want all 12 and chances are they do. I had 10 just last week, and had them all signed.

Reply by Billy Le on 11/29/10 7:54pm
Msg #363107

Yes, I had re-look at the loan package and confirm there's only four, talk with my signing company and confirm the same. OMG... 10 NORTC, I never had that much; mostly 3 to 6 NORTC per package.

Reply by bagger on 11/29/10 7:55pm
Msg #363108

The most I had was 14!!!

Reply by Billy Le on 11/29/10 7:58pm
Msg #363110

I am ambarass by this mistake but you and Linda are correct, who am I to assume they only want 1 copy sign. Definitely a lesson learn, and the funny thing is I made the borrower sign the TIL multiple time when there is multiple TIL in the package. Big Duh on my part.

OK time to call the borrower again.

Thanks everyone for listening (reading)

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/29/10 7:57pm
Msg #363109

I agree with you completely, Linda. I cringe when I read posts on this subject where Notaries say they get 12 NRTCs and have one signed for each borrower, give each borrower two for their records and trash the rest. Or, the Notary is calling the TC to see if they "need" all of the NRTCs signed.

When 30 NRTCs show up in a package, only then will I make a phone call to verify. Until then....like you Linda, I get them all signed and send them all back. If the TC in fact does not need all 12, it's THEIR choice (not mine) to shred the excess.

Reply by HisHughness on 11/29/10 9:48pm
Msg #363115

It's cringe time, Lisa.

***I cringe when I read posts on this subject where Notaries say they get 12 NRTCs and have one signed for each borrower, give each borrower two for their records and trash the rest.***

The most RTCs I ever return is one per borrower. Each borrower gets two, and I keep the rest.

I've had packets with 12-14 RTCs. What I have NOT had is packets telling me to get all 14 executed. Absent such instructions, I'm not going to ask the borrowers to do it. My surmise has always been that lazy document preparers constructed their standard packet 7 years ago, included sufficient RTCs to cover any normally anticipated number of signers at a closing, and then ever since have been sending that number of RTCs out with every packet, regardless of the number of signers.

To date, I've never had one kicked back to me. It may happen, but till it does, I'm not going to tell a borrower he has to sign 14 copies of the same document.

Reply by Rhonda Skansi on 11/30/10 12:40am
Msg #363127

I agree with Hugh.

2 signed copies for each borrower to keep and one signed copy for each borrower to send back with documents....unless specifically requested that a certain amount get signed and sent back...but that's never happened. And, I've never had an issue about that in the 5 years of this work.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/30/10 5:46am
Msg #363134

Yep, what Hugh said, every word. A question, Lisa...

How did you arrive at your arbitrary number of forms that would cause YOU to question their need, and how is this fundamentally different than those who question the necessity for a lesser but still unreasonable number?

Anyone questioning 12-14 forms makes you "cringe", but you'd question 30. The number is subjective - questioning the necessity of unreasonable redundancy you actually do agree with.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/30/10 3:47pm
Msg #363235

Re: Yep, what Hugh said, every word. A question, Lisa...

<<<How did you arrive at your arbitrary number of forms that would cause YOU to question their need, and how is this fundamentally different than those who question the necessity for a lesser but still unreasonable number?....Anyone questioning 12-14 forms makes you "cringe", but you'd question 30. The number is subjective - questioning the necessity of unreasonable redundancy you actually do agree with. >>>

Renee, the real issue is as the OP stated: The TC complained because they did not get all of the NRTCs signed and returned that were in the loan docs they generated. Splitting hairs about how I arrived at a number considered to be "unreasonable redundancy" is ancillary to this thread. The bottom line is *it is the TC's business - and theirs alone - that they want 12 NRTC forms signed and returned and why is a Notary deciding what the TC should get back in THEIR loan docs that THEY generated. And whether it was by accident or on purpose that 12 NRTCs were in the loan docs is also ancillary.

Not sure what borrowers anyone deals with but I present ALL of the NRTCs and not one borrower has ever complained about signing them all.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/1/10 6:45am
Msg #363331

your response is ancillary to my question, but that's okay. n/m

Reply by MichiganAl on 12/1/10 1:04am
Msg #363315

Re: Yep, what Hugh said, every word. A question, Lisa...

I rarely disagree with you Renee, but on this we disagree. I do not think it's up to us to decide to only have one signed or two signed. If the lender included 10, I assume they wanted 10 signed unless the lender or t.c tells me otherwise. It's not my call to say they included 10 but surely they only really need or want 2 signed. No way. Why they'd want more, I have no idea. Just as I have no idea why some lenders want the borrower to sign 5 HUDs, 4 TILs, 3 1003s, 2 mortgages, and oh, let's say the lender's preliminary HUD (cough cough). Not for us to decide. If it's in there, it's signed. Why risk it?

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/1/10 6:42am
Msg #363330

Here's a Ricola for that cough ...

yeah, I did get hit once on the Prelim Hud - 2999 times I've NOT had the Prelim Hud signed, and once I got hit, and to this day I believe that was an incident of 'industry brain-drain'. But, I did rush out that moment and get the #@$% thing signed.

With regard to 12 copies of the RTC (or 30, whatever the magic number is) - I'd earlier said that if ever I ran into such ridiculousness as that, I'd call & ask if they were necessary. Only once do I remember calling about something like that (unfortunately, YOUR memory is longer than mine!) - don't remember what form or how many there were, but took me 3 minutes to call while copy-pkg was printing. "Do you need all these?" "Nope, just one" "Gotcha, thanks." Done.

Reply by PAW on 11/30/10 7:09am
Msg #363140

Agree with Hugh

Borrowers get their mandated two copies each, and one or two (depending on names) gets returned to the lender. Never had any problems.

But, if the lender specifically stated that two copies each borrower were to be signed and returned, I would certainly comply. In the past, some correspondent lenders instructions stated that they need two executed copies. The reason, I assume, is because they had already sold the mortgage (as evidenced by a letter from the lender included in the package) and the reassignment would take effect immediately upon closing, thus the servicing lender would have to honor the rescission as well as the correspondent lender.

The most I've had in a package is 24.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/30/10 3:49pm
Msg #363236

Re: It's cringe time, Lisa.

<<<<I've had packets with 12-14 RTCs. What I have NOT had is packets telling me to get all 14 executed. Absent such instructions, I'm not going to ask the borrowers to do it. My surmise has always been that lazy document preparers constructed their standard packet 7 years ago, included sufficient RTCs to cover any normally anticipated number of signers at a closing, and then ever since have been sending that number of RTCs out with every packet, regardless of the number of signers.>>>>

Continue doing what you do - until it matters.

Reply by Jodith Allen on 12/1/10 11:50am
Msg #363386

Re: It's cringe time, Lisa.

I generally have the borrowers sign however many RTCs as are included in the package. However, my issue is generally not enough RTCs rather than too many. Most of the time I end up printing out a few more copies to have enough signed copies for the borrowers. I don't like to take the copies out of the borrowers copies, so they have those available if they lose the signed copies.

Reply by bagger on 11/29/10 7:54pm
Msg #363106

Uh
At a minimum, the BO's should sign 2 NORTC's.
Those are acknowledging that they recieved the forms. If they do wish to cancel, they should sign the forms that you provided in their copies and send them in.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/30/10 4:26pm
Msg #363241

Care to mention which lender required all RTC docs signed? n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/30/10 8:26pm
Msg #363269

<<<Lesson learn, I will just have the borrower signed all the NORTC in the signing package from now on.>>>

Very WISE decision, Billy Le.......VERY wise!!!