Posted by FlaNotary2 on 11/8/10 4:40pm
Msg #360262

NNA-trained California notaries take the cake

I am getting so sick of this...

Affidavits that are sent to California with a Florida jurat, and the California notary attaches a California acknowledgment instead of a California with a jurat. WITHOUT FAIL, every time I see this the notary's stamp was manufactured by the NNA.

I swear, I think that the NNA teaches California notaries to simply attach loose acknowledgments to everything. These notaries don't even think - they just attach an acknowledgment to whatever document is presented, even if the wording complies with California law.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/8/10 6:09pm
Msg #360271

Yup... it happens a lot.

This happened earlier this year on an affidavit that I prepared with proper CA jurat wording that was to be signed by three other people. I sent them to the AAA office to get it notarized, and the idiot notary wrote "see attached notary" and attached an NNA acknowledgment form.

I was livid... and her supervisor told me "That's the way our NNA representative taught us."


But yeah... my experience is that every single time I see bonehead notary errors... the seal has been manufactured by the NNA.

This is one of my favorite examples. The notary is the wife of the doctor:

http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0329_chastity_wm.pdf

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 11/8/10 6:17pm
Msg #360272

And how about those notaries that insist on including the capacity ("as Vice president of Deutsche Bank") in their ack. certificates? I have recently reported four notaries who are obviously employed by these big banks that are repeatedly signing off on these acknowledgments with capacity included. I know I'm not in California, but with the heavy emphasis you have on education over there, there is simply no excuse.

Reply by SharonMN on 11/9/10 3:18pm
Msg #360423

Ummm...in MN we are supposed to do that. We even have to put "husband and wife" if both sign the same doc.

>>And how about those notaries that insist on including the capacity ("as Vice president of Deutsche Bank") in their ack. certificates?

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/8/10 7:32pm
Msg #360276

so let me see, that's two whiney comments so far today...

(1) - I'm tired of, ~n~
(1) - I'm getting so sick of....

...you're walking a very thin tightrope by insulting those NNA taught CA notaries - I mean, they paid good money for their titles and all. And you out of all np's should know just how valuable buying titles are... right....

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/8/10 7:34pm
Msg #360277

Lighten up FlaNotary2...so angry today...:) n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/8/10 7:41pm
Msg #360280

Re: so let me see, that's two whiney comments so far today...

All of that aside, there is truth in it all. Especially in California where notaries usually take their exam right after their 6-hour crash course. Then, they have to wait 3-6 months before they get their commissions. There is NOT retention of material, and they only need 75% to pass the exam.

I can only speak for California, but I do have issues with our education process. I believe that:

1. There should be at least 14 days between the completion of the training course and the written exam. This forces notaries to study and retain information. Or, at the very least, prevent prospective notaries from registering for an exam until they've completed the required training. This is similar to what the CA DRE requires for real estate agents.

2. The passing rate should be increased to 80-85%.

3. At least 2 hours of required continuing education each year. If you don't complete it, your commission is suspended or revoked.

4. Increase the application fee a bit.

Four pretty simple, fairly cheap options that would go a long way to improving the quality of our state's notaries.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/8/10 8:07pm
Msg #360285

excellent suggestions that should be sent to that

website where notaries can suggest changes for their state notary laws...so far there's Al, Fl and IL are listed but not CA...

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/8/10 8:10pm
Msg #360288

Re: excellent suggestions that should be sent to that

I've written to our SOS about this, as well as my local lawmakers... but you know how that goes. Typically no response or a canned "thanks for writing" form letter.

I was thinking of doing it again around the first of the year.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/9/10 12:52am
Msg #360312

Re: so let me see, that's two whiney comments so far today...

I think the first two would be sufficient and wouldn't add much, in any, cost to administer. That would likely filter out tons of people and the rest would actually have to study the stuff. Personally, I'd rather not have to pay more or deal with 2 hrs of CE every year. I think the latter would just be another income source for XYZ...

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/9/10 10:22am
Msg #360348

Re: so let me see, that's two whiney comments so far today...

Janet, how would raising the application fee be an income source? The application fees goes to the state, not the education company.

In reality, I think eliminating the ability to take the exam right after the class would actually weed out a bunch of these cruddy education vendors, too. A lot of people do that all-day thing because it's convenient to get it all done at once - that's how they sell the classes. Now, it's just my own loud-mouthed opinion, but I think that allowing that is completely detrimental to the profession... since it clearly is doing nothing but produce terrible notaries.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/10/10 3:36am
Msg #360465

Re: so let me see, that's two whiney comments so far today...

It's not your own "loud mouthed" opinion about exams the same day, 'cause I, for one (as someone with a degree in education, FWIW), completely agree with you! And I think it's a safe bet that we aren't alone!

I may be shooting myself in the foot here, 'cause I basically agreed to be a back-up trainer for one of them, although I've yet to be actually scheduled for a class. [I can't think of a better way to have some impact, no?] But after sitting in on a class a while back with a teacher's mind set vs a student's, I realized that there is actually lots to cover in six hours. For a completely new notary-to-be, you can just barely scratch the surface of the basics. But that's just another reason to separate the exam, imo, and to stress the need for applicants to follow-up with lots of review and study time. BTW, I think the worst of the education vendors are probably among the online classes. People can skate through many of those. [I used the NotRot program for my last renewal and that was NOT the case here!] With a live training, there's at least someone to direct questions to.

As for the income source, when I said "the latter", I was referring to within my own post in the sentence prior, specifically about the issue of annual continuing education. I would like to think that the current requirement for a refresher every four years would be sufficient. I could be wrong about that when it comes to the average notary who does something else and is a notary on the side. However, for those of us who do this as a living, I thing every year would a royal pain. And at some point, you risk losing your audience altogether if it becomes too repetitive or frequent.

Actually, as I'm thinking about this, it occurs to me that if the exams were separated from the classes, it would create an extra expense for a room to conduct the exams (where now they're paid for by the company conducting the classes). So maybe a fee increase *would* be indicated, too. It would also potentially create additional travel expense for notaries located in less populated areas, but others manage to deal with it, as you said.

Overall, I still think your first two suggestions would be the best way to improve the knowledge level of CA notaries as a whole.

Reply by linda/ca on 11/10/10 3:53am
Msg #360466

Re: so let me see, that's two whiney comments so far today...

Marian, I am having a difficult time scheduling the (6) hour class that people, who demanded it some time ago, are now making money by teaching these classes. Having to go back and take the test is an extra burden; so no offense, however, I hope they don't listen to you although you are constantly stating it on this site. Some of us really are very busy and all the extra demands over the years, are costly with our time and money and I question if it really produces better notaries.

Reply by Jim/AL on 11/8/10 10:02pm
Msg #360299

Eye luv the NNA, dey taut me everyting eye no, so qut makin

fun at us.

Reply by Stoli on 11/8/10 10:23pm
Msg #360301

Marian, have you lost your mind? We pay higher fees already n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/8/10 11:26pm
Msg #360308

Re: Marian, have you lost your mind? We pay higher fees already

Note I said "slightly"?

I'm psitive that hte higher fees have helped weed out a lot of the bad eggs... but slightly higher would help even more. In other words, fewer companies would be willing to help foot the bill. I'd be willing to pay another $20-30 or so for my commission application.

Although in exchange, I'd want an ID card.

Reply by MW/VA on 11/9/10 11:19am
Msg #360367

LOL, Jim n/m

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/9/10 5:58am
Msg #360315

Robert - if you truly aim to be an educator ....

then educate, rather than acting as The Notary Vigilante with all this rather self-righteous tattle-taling. Join the NASS, establish yourself as what I suspect you aim for and watch your karma. Since this is your passion, develop some little flyer or something & send it to those who obviously need some instruction. You want to become the 'Go-To' guy, or the guy who makes SOS's eyes roll across the nation?

There's a difference between developing a thick skin, and a hard edge. I truly mean this all in the nicest way.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 11/9/10 6:13am
Msg #360317

Re: Robert - if you truly aim to be an educator ....

Renee -

Being an educator is my way of helping notaries get educated. In Florida, mores than in other states, education is a problem. So many notaries don't know how to administer an oath or complete a certificate. I do what I can, but can only do so much. When i can, I contact the notary directly to explain the problem, but occasionally I come across a mistake so blatant and terrible that I consider it my responsibility to report it. We are public officials with simple duties. I have no tolerance for incompetent public officials, whether it is the president, governor, or a notary. We all have jobs to do and, if we can't do them right, someone should call us out on it. Notarial fraud and ridiculous notary errors have been swept under the rug long enough.

I get out there and teach classes. There have only been 17 courses ever approved by the governor's office, and mine is one of them. I am one of only 2 individuals in Florida who actually holds live classes. My book is the only non-NNA Florida notary resource published in nearly 10 years.

I get out there and talk to people about what notaries are and what they do. I talk to attorneys, news reporters, whoever will listen. I want so desperately to increase the standards of this profession but I often feel like I'm doing it alone. Educating is the best thing I can do, and I assure you, I do it.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/9/10 7:31am
Msg #360325

I hate to pull this card out ...

but here goes - hopefully, age will temper your intolerance for incompetancy (on all levels, not just in this isolated area), and you'll feel a little more compassionate. As a whole and vast generalization, people mean well and don't intend to be incompetant. Boils down to a simple question: What is it that you really want? If all you want is to walk around with a big bag of "I Am Right" ...you're on track.

However, if you want to influence & educate - you might consider how the 'experience' others have of you is influencing them or educating them. I believe I often have a problem with how people experience ME in these forums; it's something I'm ever aware of and it's a difficult craft that I've not mastered myself. So ...I'm not saying I'm good at it or better than you at it, I'm only saying - it matters.

Whew, ok, I'm getting a little too existential here. =)

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 11/9/10 8:04am
Msg #360330

Re: I hate to pull this card out ...

Sorry, but I do find your "pulling the card out" to be petty, tacky, and offensive.

I do respect you, Renee, but I think you've misinterpreted my posts. Maybe you aren't aware of the situation in Florida. I hope I am not coming off as being critical or attacking you. We have more notaries here than any other state. When the majority of notaries don't know how to do their job, and truly do not care to learn, it causes a notary crisis. A notary commission here is a novelty. The public doesn't take us very seriously (yes, there are exceptions, but this has been my experience) and notary fraud in this state is rampant.

You are right, I have no tolerance for incompetency amongst public officials. Yiur insinuating that this intolerance is the result of my age is offensive. I use my vote to get rid of those who are incompetent. Unfortunately, no amount of voting can get rid of an incompetent notary.

I don't mean to sound demeaning, Renee, but I feel that bringing up my age is a very low blow. I have accomplished a great deal for someone my age - more than many notaries do in their life. If anyone thinks I'm tooting my own horn, so be it. I'm proud of what I have done and what I continue to do to serve the public and to serve the notaries of Florida.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/9/10 9:09am
Msg #360337

see ...I just did the one thing I didn't intend

I am SO lousy at 'crafting' how others experience me. You're right and I apologize for what came across as a slam to your age. I didn't mean it to be, but that doesn't matter - I'll own it.

When I said "age will temper you" - you took it as an age slam. I meant it the same as if I'd said "time will temper you", and that would've been a better choice of words. I'd have said the same thing, were you 18 or 35 - it's just what is, time/age/experience does leave a mark - not always a GOOD one, but a mark. The "age card" I pulled out was my own, not yours. My apologies for not recognizing that it still went both ways.

FL might have more notaries per capita, but no corner on the market for incompetancy. I also wish to see people more educated, more competant, less of a liability to themselves & those they serve. I just use different strokes, and I know that no matter how hard I try, I will never actually be perfect. I thank The Bank of Karma for giving me deposits when I need them, and in return I make deposits as much as I can. Philosophy session over. =)

Reply by MW/VA on 11/9/10 11:19am
Msg #360366

They say the definition of "insanity" is doing the same

things over & over, expecting different results. I'm wondering why this Florida "authority" is trying again at what failed so badly before.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 11/9/10 11:33am
Msg #360377

total advertising and patting own shoulder...YAAAAWWNNN... n/m