Posted by Mike Smith on 11/11/10 10:44am
Msg #360778

Notary Market Updates?

Hi Guys and Gals, I've been searching around the forums for a few days to try to get a feel of the current notary market, but can't seem to find a suitable answer. I used to (independently) work multiple closings every day about 5 years ago and was very good at it, and people seemed to like me. Last I remember the market was horrible for notaries before the real estate bubble burst out here in Phoenix. I used to be able to charge $100-$125 before the companies started really low-balling the notaries, which is why I got out. I'm just trying to do my homework to see if it's worth jumping back in, at least part-time.

Have things improved, or is it pretty much the same as it was five years ago? Any information (good or bad) is very appreciated

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/11/10 11:21am
Msg #360786

It's highly geographical

The answer you get will depend on where. I don't think you will get a satisfactory one size fits all answer. The best thing to do is go out and do some footwork to find out what is happening in your area.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/11/10 11:24am
Msg #360787

Not only geographical...but also depends on how

much effort you're willing to put into it to garner assignments. Is it like it was 5 years ago? I don't think so - in many areas the number of notaries (thus your competition) has increased while both volume and fees have dropped as a result. (supply and demand).

Good Luck.

Reply by James Dawson on 11/11/10 11:28am
Msg #360789

Things are sooooo good here, notaries are coming from 35 -50 miles away for signings.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/11/10 11:36am
Msg #360791

Well, like I said, highly geographical.

Are you doing refi's or sales?

Everyone is underwater in my neck of the woods, so sales is it.

Reply by James Dawson on 11/11/10 11:56am
Msg #360793

Mostly Refis, about 75%....a few out of state purchases.

I made that earlier sarcastic remark because I'm finding out most of the notaries here are sticking to their guns with their fees so notaries outside the area are coming in doing the work for less. That's okay by me though cause they can't beat my general notary work fees from out of the area. Win some lose some.

Reply by Mike Smith on 11/11/10 12:14pm
Msg #360795

In Phoenix, most people seem to be underwater, so we're in an area that has a lot of short sales, foreclosures, and loan mods. I used to do a ton of refi's and HELOC's when the market was still booming, but as we all know the market tanked. I'm still doing my research and occasionally get calls from signing services and title companies, though most of the TC's I used to work with vaporized. I see some of the documents have slightly changed, but the fees generally seem to be fairly close to what they used to be. It is nice to see some consistency is still out there, but I guess I was looking to find out how things have changed now that many people seem to be underwater and the market seems to be upside-down. Thanks again for your input and not ripping on me for asking such a bland question

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/11/10 12:19pm
Msg #360797

Not a bland question. It's always worth discussing now and again. Your area sounds like my area .

Reply by James Dawson on 11/11/10 12:34pm
Msg #360799

Not everybody rips. LOL But then again, I need all the friends I can muster.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/11/10 12:16pm
Msg #360796

Yeah, I am not one to reduce my fees any lower than what they are. Wear and tear on vehicles, etc, just not worth it even if I get no business. I'll let them wear out their cars driving 100 miles round trip for a $75 edoc job.

I just make sure my sign is on my truck and I have my briefcase with me when I go places, even if I am going to the dump. It keeps the beer in the fridge ......

Reply by James Dawson on 11/11/10 12:36pm
Msg #360800

Likewise, I keep my briefcase with me at all times, Bars and liquor stores need notaries too!

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/11/10 12:43pm
Msg #360801

*Bars and liquor stores need notaries too!*

Yep...had one in a sports bar watching the Aggies play football a few weeks ago...on a Thursday night. If you get your seal and journal out in a bar, better have some business cards with you.

Reply by Mike Smith on 11/11/10 1:06pm
Msg #360803

HAHAHAHAHA, I never thought

HAHAHAHAHA, I never thought about doing notary work in a bar! I only had alcohol once and learned quickly that it wasn't my cup of tea and haven't been in a bar since (let's just say my body couldn't keep it in). For me I will leave the bars to you guys, otherwise I think I would look kinda silly sitting at the bar with a virgin strawberry daiquiri, dressed up like I'm going to court with a briefcase, fearing that others might think I'm some sort of social worker #=D

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/11/10 2:12pm
Msg #360818

I was drinking Diet Coke. I don' n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/11/10 2:13pm
Msg #360819

Re: I was drinking Diet Coke. I don't drinkee and drivee.

Signer was the DD so she was not drinking either. The drinkers wanted the business cards.

Reply by Harriet Singleton on 11/11/10 1:34pm
Msg #360809

Hi All.
Just signed up on Notary Rotary and am learning and enjoying the different exchanges.
I have done hundreds of signings for FASS and got 'fired' in October out of the blue with no reason. The fees were lower but the work was steady and the pay quick. Now I'm out searching for new sources. I've done signings for about 4 other signature companies but they don't seem to have the high volume like FASS. Nations Direct is offering assignments but this week their fees have been ridiculously low for some reason and I've declined the jobs. I live in northern Virginia and although property values have dropped in recent years, there are still alot of refi(s) and some loan mods happening. Does anyone have any suggestions on reasonable fees to charge and/companies doing business in this area?
Your response would be appreciated.
Thanks

Reply by Les_CO on 11/11/10 1:05pm
Msg #360802

I’d say business is about half what it was five years ago. It does depend on location. The Phoenix area would be worse than the average. Lenders aren’t marketing to areas where the houses won’t appraise. Still in an area with millions of houses, there is always some movement, even though Phoenix is depressed, it’s probably better than Nebraska. Your fees sound about right. I wouldn’t go any lower, not much point in working for free. I’d guess there are many more NSA’s out there today than there were in the past, how many are part time, or working at all is a mystery to me.
Improved?…No. Pretty much the same?….No. Things for us have generally declined. More notaries, less business, fewer Title Companies, more low-ball offers, and a new twist. Where Title Companies in the past viewed us as a free (borrower paid) convenience, now see us as a profit center. Now they ‘include’ our fees in the ‘closing costs’ and do not pay us out of the loan proceeds, but pay us out of their operating account, and keep a portion of that fee for themselves.( i.e. charge the borrower $200, and pay us $75.) More problems too, mostly with late docs. Getting docs the day before the closing is almost unheard of, 10 minutes prior…normal. Borrowers seem better informed, so no more pre-payment fees, and YSP of 6-8 grand. Anyway…As for me… I’m making far less than I did at one time and most of the fun is gone… JMO…and Good Luck!

Reply by Mike Smith on 11/11/10 1:16pm
Msg #360804

Definitely appreciated! I remember seeing many times in the past the borrower being charged upwards of $400 for the signing of which I would only see about $125. One reason I refuse to reduce my fees lower than $100 is simply that if they want professional results, they have to pay a professional's fee. Plus, the more of us stick to our guns, the more of us will get paid better (ideally). Can you imagine if brain surgeons started undercutting each other? (no pun intended)

Is there any new document types that I should get acquainted with? I really miss the good ol' days when people used to be able to make a decent living without having to worry about being screwed over...

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 11/11/10 1:50pm
Msg #360813

not all of us have lowered our fees, business still good n/m

Reply by kathy/ca on 11/11/10 1:18pm
Msg #360806

"Your fees sound about right. I wouldn’t go any lower", I

dont see where Mike listed his fees Les.

Reply by James Dawson on 11/11/10 1:24pm
Msg #360807

fees listed in OP n/m

Reply by kathy/ca on 11/11/10 4:25pm
Msg #360861

He said "I used to charge" so I thought he charged less now. n/m

Reply by James Dawson on 11/11/10 4:31pm
Msg #360862

mike could you clear this up please? n/m

Reply by kathy/ca on 11/11/10 5:07pm
Msg #360867

What does $100 cover, signing, e-docs, travel? OR

just the signing and travel with extra for e-docs, fax backs, etc? With the size of the packages growing, I hardly think $100 is enough to include much more than the signing and travel. Just my opinion based on my expenses.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/11/10 5:47pm
Msg #360881

Easy peasy....get rid of the extra words...he said

"I used to (independently) work multiple closings every day about 5 years ago ....I used to be able to charge $100-$125 before the companies started really low-balling the notaries, which is why I got out."

Reply by Mike Smith on 11/11/10 8:56pm
Msg #360916

Re: clarification

As mentioned before I used to do the whole thing about 5 years ago. I was incredibly successful and never reduced my fees for anyone because I (and the people I worked for) knew what I was worth. Anyone that called asking me to do anything for less than I charged was kindly declined. I did it because I knew that I had important work to do. Not to toot my own horn, but I was the one that many title companies called to get the job done right in a pinch or after another "cheaper" notary messed it up. I never assumed anything. I was (and still am) one of those guys you would like to collaborate with, not compete against. I used to charge anywhere from $100 for in-office signings to $200 or more for the full package with some travel. I remember doing a purchase where I charged the title company $800 for a four-document package in the middle of the night for one of their "premier" clients who was buying 4 houses, but I had fax-backs and about 50 miles of travel (round trip). But I understand that was the good ol' days when everyone had more money.

Briefly, I got out of the notary scene about 5 years ago at the height of the booming economy when I started an unrelated business that took off like a rocket, but recently sold part of it. So after a couple months of vacation time, I decided to get back in the work force to add a little extra padding in the bank to help ensure that my family has enough cash, just in case the economy goes from bad to worse.

When I started this thread, I was trying to learn a little more about the current notary market and do my homework to see if there are any new document sets that I need to get acquainted with or any new rules I need to be aware of. Plus I would like to know (if possible) how the down-turn in the economy has affected you guys, and your notary work. My commission has been expired for a couple years, and I would have to go through the process to be reinstated anyways, but I'm one of those people who do not like to sit idle. I am not a threat for any of you since I am currently ineligible to do any notary work, and I do not cut throats. I am simply doing my homework before I make a decision to jump back in.

I consider all of you my friends and associates and sincerely appreciate your feedback

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/11/10 10:22pm
Msg #360923

Kudos to you for doing your research first!

Can't count how many come onto this board saying "I just got my notary. Can someone tell me how to find some business?" or "Who are your good clients and can you give me their contact info?"
LOL!!

The whole tone of your inquiry was a good bit different, which is why you got reasonable, uncritical responses. (Just in case any newbies out there are reading this.... ) It's all in what you say.

But then, you've already been a successful pro, apparently at two businesses, so we would expect no less.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to pursue next!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/11/10 10:27pm
Msg #360925

OMG!! I just saw one higher up the page...

Someone asking virtually the same things I posted about above. Honestly, I hadn't read it yet when I wrote this post. I had just scrolled down the page quickly - so there might even be more than one. Don't tell me that a certain company (or companies) is out there actively recruiting again for people to join our field!? I wouldn't be surprised, but I'm not sure I even want to think about it.

And for the record, my post above was intended very generically, and not meant to offend anyone. I'm going to go read the rest of the post(s) now on this topic. It may be enlightening.

Reply by Mike Smith on 11/12/10 12:23am
Msg #360933

Re: OMG!! I just saw one higher up the page...

It's all good! I'm independent, and came into this on my own, not under convincing from anyone else or signing services. I just don't want anyone to get the wrong impression