Posted by Dennis_IN on 11/29/10 9:13pm
Msg #363114

Question for Indiana Notaries

How do you handle the IN Tax Benefits Form? (Very carefully) It is to be given to the Borrower on yellow or Gold paper. How do you explain it? If we provide the Form are we guilty of UPL? I look forward to your comments.

Reply by kcg on 11/29/10 10:07pm
Msg #363116

I always provide a copy of the IN tax benefit form and tell them that they need to reapply for the Mortgage Exemption. I explain what happens....current mortgage is paid off, new recorded one will go into system as a mortgage but state does not give the exemption unless it is applied for.

Some lenders and t/c's have forms in their packages, many do not. I carry a stack of the benefit form printed on gold paper and make sure I give one to every borrower. As I am reviewing docs, I explain the need to reapply.

I cannot for the life of me see how this can be UPL? Maybe someone will enlighten me?

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/30/10 5:30am
Msg #363133

The info you're relaying is contained

in the Application form - you're pointing out that information, you're not interpreting laws or giving legal advice.

IMO, this wouldn't be UPL any more than providing & pointing out info on the various property tax forms that are done with a purchase (I'd venture a guess every state has some type of prop tax form on purchases, at the least). The only difference being that IN requires the application for BOTH purchases & refi's.

Once in a blue moon I get a puchase pkg that's missing the property tax forms required here in MI. I print them off the state's website with their instructions - and provide them to the buyers, point out the key info and 'help' them fill the forms out if they need me to. I 'help' them by simply reading the very fundamental questions: "In this box, it asks for your name, in this box it asks for your phone number...." Fortunately, these forms are quite simple & don't ask for any subjective answers.

I'd compare it to going to H&R Block to have an 1040-EZ done; those are done by quickly-trained lay people, not tax attorneys. It's also a tax form. They help you complete the boxes by asking you the questions ON the form. If you were to ask them "What if I don't file? What will happen?" and they said "The IRS is likely to bring about some unfortunate rain on your parade." - would that be UPL, or common-knowledge?

By comparison - I recently did a refi for CA property, and saw I think my first "Preliminary Change of Ownership" form. Daunting, to say the least - completely FULL of UPL potential. The questions are not cut/dried "what's your name" things, and would seem to carry some serious tax consequences based on the answers. I could NOT help them beyond presenting the form. My borrowers were an attorney and a financial planner, and NEITHER of them could figure out their correct answers. The attorney, frustrated, asked me "I don't know how to answer these, whom would you suggest I call?"

It was SO HARD to NOT say "I'd suggest perhaps an attorney, or a financial advisor?" =O

Reply by Dennis_IN on 11/30/10 7:12am
Msg #363143

Re: The info you're relaying is contained

I agree. We are only pointing out the information on the form. No different then going over the note. I will continue to provide the form on the proper colored paper even though the TC/Lender fails to provide it in their pkg. The sad thing is that at my resign, the previous notary failed to provide the form and the BO would not have refiled his mortgage exemption and his taxes would have gone up until he did so...It is unfair to the BO to say..."Just sign here" to get through the signing quicker.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/30/10 7:18am
Msg #363144

Dennis, if this thread is an offshoot of my comment

yesterday, I apologize if I muddied the waters any - I wasn't questioning so much you providing the form, but in that thread you commented the prior notary never advised the borrower that his taxes would go up if he didn't file his exemption - it's that *advice" that I questioned as UPL. That's why I asked if it was covered under your TPL "umbrella", so to speak.

Apologies for any problems my question may have created.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 11/30/10 3:55pm
Msg #363238

Linda: No problem I just wanted to here how other IN

notaries handled the doc. I don't have a problem presenting the doc. And I did not advise him that if he forgot to file the exemption his taxes would go up. That was just my thoughts on the results of her action ( or inaction). Got to go...it's a busy day, only 2 more to close today.