Posted by TinaCA on 11/2/10 10:12pm
Msg #359443

RTC

I realize that you are supposed to give the borrowers 2 signed RTC each. Lets say one Lender has 6 right to cancels. There are also 6 in the borrowers package as well. Do I have them sign all of them for a total of 12 RTCs or does the lender include more because of losing them. I hope this makes sense because it is late here and I am very tired.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/2/10 10:18pm
Msg #359444

The only time I have them sign from the BO's package is if there are not enough in the signing package. In this instance, they could sign all six, 2 for Mrs., 2 for Mr. and 2 for the returned package.

Another way to look at it: the borrower's copy is only used for pulling forms that had mistakes made on them and I am switching out. They get the mistakes as a momento of our time together.

Reply by Jim/AL on 11/3/10 8:52am
Msg #359465

Momento Julie, that is cute. n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/2/10 10:24pm
Msg #359445

I just give them what the law requires ..... n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/2/10 11:21pm
Msg #359446

Ditto to Glenn

...and I never leave any RTCs in the borrower pkg. I take them all out, do whatever needs to be done, if anything and then they each get two correct and completed RTCs for their copies when I leave. With all the hoopla over RTC lawsuits, I'm not going to make it easy for anybody to claim I didn't do such and such ... this may be overdoing it... but at least I'll always know what was left with the borrowers ....

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/3/10 3:39am
Msg #359449

Re: Ditto to Glenn

I do the same thing, on the advice of an attorney I used to network with who specialized in this area. This goes back a couple of years, but she told me that some borrowers - and their attorneys - were claiming they didn't have signed copies of the RTC, or doing something with the unsigned copies, to try to get out of their loans. She strongly recommended that I never leave any unsigned RTC copies with anyone.

Generally, I return one and leave two signed copies each with the borrowers. However, I did see a package recently that had instructions for all copies of the RTCs to be signed and returned, so we did that. I then had them sign two each from their pile and took the two remaining sheets with me.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 11/2/10 11:40pm
Msg #359447

If not enough in pkg I copy 2 more for them to sign/keep n/m

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/3/10 6:09am
Msg #359451

I don't have the borrowers sign their copies

My understanding is that each borrower must receive two completed copies of this document. "Completed" means that all applicable dates are filled in, as well as the cancellation info (lender contact info). I make sure that there are at least two copies of RTC in the pkg for each borrower, and however many are in the package is how many get signed and returned (had 12 with a Chase pkg yesterday).

On rare occasion, I receive an RTC that has no dates filled in and I make sure the correct dates are filled in for all copies in both signing pkg and borrowers pkg.

Now before everyone blasts me for not having the borrowers sign their copies, let's have PAW chime in on this since he is well versed on Reg Z.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/3/10 7:33am
Msg #359455

I have them sign their copies...

Borrowers get a copy of the package, which is completely absent of all signatures - they get no copies of anything signed or notarized - this is the ONLY document in the entire borrower's copy that bears any signature at all - IMO it's sort of like giving them a copy of a signed receipt.

Signed is not *required* under Reg Z - but I prefer to do it that way.

MHO

Reply by PAW on 11/3/10 7:34am
Msg #359456

Signed copies of the RTC are not required by Reg Z

However, as others have pointed out, or eluded to, unscrupulous parties may try to evade paying their mortgage payments by virtue of an improperly completed Notice of the Right of Rescission. Reg Z (current version) is silent on the design of the notification. Nothing in Reg Z states that signatures are required, only that "a creditor shall deliver two copies of the notice of the right to rescind to each consumer entitled to rescind (one copy to each if the notice is delivered by electronic communication as provided in Sec. 226.36(b))."

So, technically, impo, the intent and letter of Reg Z is fulfilled simply by providing the requisite number of copies to each consumer, signed or not. From a "protective" point of view, it is harder to use the RTC as a tool for fraud if the consumer's copies of the notice are completed properly and signed.

I also suggest that the consumers use a 207 gel pen to sign the notices, since documents (including checks) signed with the 207 gel cannot be washed clean.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/3/10 6:30pm
Msg #359544

Re: Signed copies of the RTC are not required by Reg Z

<<<.....207 gel pen.....>>>

Are these by Papermate, Pilot, Bic, or ______?? Thanks.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/3/10 6:50pm
Msg #359547

Re: Signed copies of the RTC are not required by Reg Z

They are Uniball. I tried them but they smear, so I started using the Uniball Jetstream.

Reply by PAW on 11/3/10 7:14pm
Msg #359552

Re: Signed copies of the RTC are not required by Reg Z

Yep, the will smear until dry. It only takes a few moments for the gel to dry. Considering the alternative, I'll take a few extra moments on each page.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/3/10 7:49pm
Msg #359557

Re: Signed copies of the RTC are not required by Reg Z

The Jetstream contains the Uniball "Uni Super Ink" which is supposed to prevent check washing and alteration. I don't know if the 207 contains the same ink or one that prevents check washing even more.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/3/10 8:30am
Msg #359461

I always have three signed. One for lender...

two for the borrowers.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/3/10 6:56pm
Msg #359549

Clarification

<< I make sure that there are at least two copies of RTC in the pkg for each borrower, >>

I make sure there are at least two copies of RTC for each borrower included in BORROWER"S COPY PACKAGE.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/3/10 6:47pm
Msg #359546

<<<I realize that you are supposed to give the borrowers 2 signed RTC each. Lets say one Lender has 6 right to cancels. There are also 6 in the borrowers package as well. Do I have them sign all of them for a total of 12 RTCs or does the lender include more because of losing them. I hope this makes sense because it is late here and I am very tired.>>>

Not my decision as to how many are signed and returned. Whatever is in the edoc file is what gets signed and return. If 12 RTCs are in the package, then ALL twelve get signed and returned. Is there a computer glitch in the TC/Escrow software that explains why so many extras are in the package or could they have their own reason why the package has so many extras? I don't know. But as long as the minimal required by law are signed, and no law against extras, then I see no reason why not to get all of them signed (if that's what the edoc file has).

I've never understood why NSAs have the borrowers sign their copy of the RTC. If borrowers wish to exercise their RTC, they don't sign on *that* line anyway, so what would be the point?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/4/10 3:25am
Msg #359574

Well, one point could be that apparently borrowers have been known to lie about what date they received THEIR two copies of the RTC, regardless of what the lender's copy says. If they have unsigned and undated copies, they can put different dates in there, claiming they didn't get their copies at the same time as they lender's copy was signed (even though they have acknowledged that they did) and then extend their RTC period.

I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs - and my mind isn't devious enough to imagine al the ways people try to cheat - but I do know that it happens.

Reply by James Dawson on 11/4/10 9:39am
Msg #359594

JanetK, Not being argumentative but how can the borrower argue anything but the correct date. The NSA had an appointment to sign Docs on XX date, all other Docs signed on XX date, etc. Just a thought.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 11/5/10 11:20pm
Msg #359907

IF 2 people are signing, and there are 6 in the package, I give each borr 2 of the signed ones, and the remaining two (typically one with each signature) go back to the lender. I try to catch them before I print the borrower copy, and I do not print the 6 more that is the 2nd set of docs, which constitutes the borrower package. I am pretty sure the lender tosses all the extras; they don't need that many! I would not leave blank ones in the borrowers package, for the reasons others stated.