Posted by Joan Bergstrom on 11/10/10 10:48pm
Msg #360709
Right To Cancel Forms
I have seen in the loan business for over 8 years and I have seen companies that put 6-8 RTC in packages but, the last 2 Chase loans I have completed have had an unbelivable amount of RTC forms in the packages.
Two different signing companies:
first signing had 12 RTC forms for 2 borrowers &
last night 3 borrowers had 18 RTC forms in the package.
Each borrower had to sign all 12 or 18 RTC forms.
Got all of them signed but, I am not sure what the rational is behind this amount of RTC forms
Anyone have any ideas why this is happening?
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Reply by Lee/AR on 11/10/10 10:56pm
Msg #360712
Don't know, but if anyone ever finds out why, please let us all know. Until then, imho, the answer is 'because they can'.
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Reply by John Schenk on 11/10/10 11:02pm
Msg #360713
RIDICULOUS!
Almost as ridiculous as BOA streamlines getting no RTC at all, which is the other side of the spectrum. Throw about 30 pages of title instructions in that 168 packet and you got even more ridiculous. How about 5 TILs? 7 identity docs? Enough to make you gastric. LOL
JJ
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Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/11/10 4:34am
Msg #360729
the typical Streamline would be exempt from rescission
From the TILA, under rescission exemptions:
"(2) A refinancing or consolidation by the same creditor of an extension of credit already secured by the consumer's principal dwelling. The right of rescission shall apply, however, to the extent the new amount financed exceeds the unpaid principal balance, any earned unpaid finance charge on the existing debt, and amounts attributed solely to the costs of the refinancing or consolidation. "
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Reply by Rachel/AL on 11/11/10 8:00am
Msg #360749
Re: RIDICULOUS!
I have received up to around 18 also. I only have the signers sign 6 at the max. 2 to go back into the pkg and they each get 2. The other blank ones I just put on top of the signers pkg for them to keep. No company has ever complained.
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Reply by Pat/CA on 11/10/10 11:49pm
Msg #360715
This JUST happened to me tonight on a Chase loan. It IS crazy! And... the instructions were to have every page of the docs initialed, which is crazier!!!
Because I found out last week when I scheduled the signing they had young children (I could hear them in the background), I decided to call the borrowers and let them know that the amount of time necessary would increase because they needed to initial over 100 pages of documents.
He told me three things: 1) He was told last week the notary would have him sign a few papers for his refinance and 2) he JUST received his 1st GFE ever today! TODAY! 3) He was also told there would be no cost to him... guess what both the GFE & HUD-1 show? Bingo!
He said he couldn't get a hold of his loan officer and so he wasn't going to sign tonight. I am SO glad I decided to call before heading out. Too bad I'd already printed docs.
Thanks for letting me join your vent! 
I
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Reply by nobhill on 11/11/10 2:55am
Msg #360725
We just had a huge discussion on this forum this morning about the insanity of their asking for the borrower to initial all the docs. The right to cancel should be enough along with a copy to the borrower. Their signatures should be all that's legally required. It adds to our work and to stress out the borrower. I think it's totally unnecessary but many disagreed with me in my post claiming we are to do whatever they ask us to do. So they pay someone on the other end now to look over the initials. They now have another reason to reduce our fees! "You missed initials!"
I've just found sometimes if you probe a little more that they will say its not necessary after all. This applies to other things such as faxing back the docs (sometimes unnecessary) and printing on all legal size which is just said sometimes to get notaries not to cut off text. That presents its own kind of problems however.
We should ask them to provide initial areas with lines if they want us to have them initial the docs.
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Reply by Pat/CA on 11/11/10 9:25am
Msg #360765
I agree with you, and had posted on your post venting there too.
I did probe because I've never had this request before and have worked for LSI often enough to be surprised about this 'new' requirement. I was told they'd been doing it that way for 8 months.
It is STUPID!!!
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Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/11/10 6:08am
Msg #360736
Pat, I had a Chase last week and borrowers were expecting no closing costs. They blew a gasket when they saw the HUD for the first time and their loan amount was going up $3K. It was to cover tax payment that was due and also the county/state tax stamps, but they were assured when reviewing the GFE with their LO that "all those charges would be backed out" and they were expecting literally *zero* cost to them for doing this loan. There was a credit which covered the title charges and the one lender fee of $45. They refused to sign.
Then Chase had me go out two days later - I received docs and everything. I had called early on to confirm appt and wife sounded surprised but said OK. Then I called her about an hour before the appt and said that my schedule had worked out so that I could come about 15 minutes early (I knew she had a parent meeting at school) and she said, "Didn't Chase call you? We are not ready to sign - we are still looking around at what options we have with other companies. Chase scheduled this appointment without asking us." The paperwork looked exactly the same to me, so I had figured their LO had worked things out with them. Guess not!
This job was for Chase through a large national TC that requires every page to be initialed on Chase loans, and yes there were 12 RTC's in each package I printed! When I called TC to let them know that borrower told me not to come, they had no idea this wasn't ready to close. Chase, what a total waste of everyone's time and resources!
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Reply by Pat/CA on 11/11/10 9:49am
Msg #360771
It's bull is what it is! I didn't even bother counting the RTC's, I just noticed there were a crazy amount of them.
I voiced my opinion on the matter, kindly, but I stated that I felt I should be heard. I was informed this morning it was forwarded to vendor management. I told them this is something that needs to be disclosed upfront to the notary so we can decide if we even have the additional time allowance necessary to comply. That having this type of loan in the morning could throw off our entire day, and irritate other business relationships we've worked hard to develop because now we're late to 'their' appointments.
I think of those with hands so shaky it is very difficult for them to sign, or arthritic hands, or, or...
Bottom line is it's ridiculous and unnecessary!
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Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/11/10 11:15am
Msg #360785
Totally agree, Pat! n/m
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Reply by Natalie The Notary Lounge on 11/11/10 12:07am
Msg #360718
I know exactly what you mean. Just had someone call tonight for a refi signing w/ husband and wife and they sent 10 RTC's for each. Wish I knew why they need so many signed. I'm sure there has to be a good reason, and if someone knows, please let me know why.
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Reply by GWest on 11/11/10 12:29am
Msg #360719
Recently had a file that had 32 RTC's for the borrower to sign, as the property was in a trust and they had to sign half as individuals and half as trustee. Unbelievable. When the borrowers make a comment as to having to sign 16 RTC's, I let them know about the borrower that had to sign over 30 and they are always glad that they only have 16 to sign.
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Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/11/10 4:38am
Msg #360730
I've yet to face such ridiculous numbers of copies, BUT
If ever I do, I will definitely be calling for clarification.
Are these pkgs coming from SS's? From a particular settlement agent? Has anyone called either the lender or settlement agent about it?
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Reply by CF on 11/11/10 6:35am
Msg #360738
Much easier/less time to have them signed than to call
someone that, probably, has no idea why it is that way. I have had this across the board from local to national title companies to the few signing services that I work for.
I have been seeing an increase of HUDS and TILS too.
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Reply by Donna McDaniel on 11/11/10 6:56am
Msg #360740
Re: Much easier/less time to have them signed than to call
I call escrow every time I see 12 RTCs in the package and am always told I only need 3 for each borrower. To me, it's worth the phone call.
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Reply by CF on 11/11/10 7:29am
Msg #360744
Over the past couple of years I have decided to just
follow the herd! I do not get compensated to make phone calls for other people's incompetency.
The next time you feel it is in your best interest to start making some phone calls....time how long it takes you and how many calls that you must make. Same applies to emails. You may be very shocked to see how time adds up on this.
Time=profitability. Honestly, that is my main concern!!!! I can guarantee you that I can have 12 RTC's signed in about 1 minute vs. who knows how long my phone calling will take.
Just something to think about.
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Reply by redd on 11/11/10 7:34am
Msg #360747
Re: Over the past couple of years I have decided to just
I agree with that! Just sign 'em all and be done with it. Calling can eat up time........
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Reply by Donna McDaniel on 11/11/10 8:09am
Msg #360751
I'm just sitting at my desk printing anyway....
so why not do what I can to reduce the time I spend at the table?
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Reply by GWest on 11/11/10 7:31am
Msg #360745
Re: I've yet to face such ridiculous numbers of copies, BUT
Every time I have called to question the number of RTC's I have been told to have them all signed and return. Believe me when I had 32 RTC's I felt that was a bit over the top. It seems that these are mostly Chase loans that have that many RTC's.
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Reply by Frank/NC on 11/11/10 9:08am
Msg #360757
Re: I've yet to face such ridiculous numbers of copies, BUT
My thoughts about all the TILS and RTC's is just Git r done and go to the next one. How long can it take anyway?
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Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/11/10 9:12am
Msg #360758
Why I would call ...
For one thing - since I've done tons of Chase loans and never encountered this, it's a reasonable assumption that it's NOT Chase doing this. I'll pick up a phone in a heartbeat, unless I want something in writing - and all it takes is one phone call, ONCE, per client sending these ridiculous pkgs.
I'm also going to lay some odds down that if I ever did present a borrower with 16 copies of the RTC and I did that inside a Chase branch, the L/O would not be happy about it. Just an assumption, I've never faced this, but inside the branches they just don't operate like that.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/11/10 9:17am
Msg #360759
Never thought I'd see the day I'd do this, but I'm
going to disagree with something Renee said.."it's a reasonable assumption that it's NOT Chase doing this."
I did one a couple weeks ago 12 RTC's - the RTC's are contained within the lender package (not in title docs) - so IMO it IS the lender generating these, not title. I'd guess it's a glitch in their system that populates the forms.
I got the twelve signed, returned 8. Called picking your battles. Takes less time to just get them signed than it does to argue it.
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Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/11/10 9:24am
Msg #360764
I need a better wording mechanism in my head ...
I know Chase is sending the docs but I don't think Chase's regulations WANT them - I do think it's a glitch in software - and they must have more than one delivery method, since some get these and others don't.
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Reply by HisHughness on 11/11/10 9:18am
Msg #360760
Rightly or wrongly, I have always viewed excessive multiples of RTCs as the product of an anal retentive lender staffer. If I am confronted with that, I have one copy for each borrower executed for the return file. Each borrower gets a copy of his executed RTC and a copy of every other borrower's RTC. If there are any left over after that, they go in my file, unexecuted.
To date, I have never been told that I should have had all RTCs executed and should have returned those that did not go to the borrowers.
I prefer to have extra RTCs rather than fewer than the law requires, as sometimes happens. And I never call to ascertain if I should have 12-18 RTCs executed.
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Reply by PAW on 11/11/10 10:05am
Msg #360775
Likewise ...
One signed copy to be returned with the package and two copies left with the borrower. If there is more than one person signing and they are all listed on the form, each signer gets two and the lender gets one. If there are more than one signing, and each has their own form, then one per signer gets returned and two per signer is given to the signer. I do not provide the signers with copies of the other signers form, only a copy of the form they actually signed.
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Reply by Donna McDaniel on 11/11/10 10:09am
Msg #360776
Re: Likewise ...
After numerous calls to TCs regarding this issue and the opinions of other notaries, I'll be doing the same.
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Reply by notary/OR on 11/11/10 10:21am
Msg #360777
Re: Likewise ...
I sign about 30 of these Chase packages each month, they always have 12 or so RTC. I have each borrower execute three, return two, leave the borrowers one executed copy and all the additional blank copies. I have never been called or had a problem with Title or the lender.
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Reply by GWest on 11/11/10 10:55am
Msg #360779
Re: Likewise ...
I know that it is not required that they sign their copies but you stated you leave the borrowers one executed copy and all the additional blank copies. I hope the the blank copies have the dates completed as you must provide the Borrower with two completed RTC's.
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Reply by GWest on 11/11/10 10:56am
Msg #360781
Re: Likewise ...
I meant to say you must provide "each" of the Borrowers two completed RTC's.
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Reply by NJW/FL on 11/11/10 4:19pm
Msg #360857
same here! n/m
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Reply by jba/fl on 11/11/10 12:31pm
Msg #360798
Ditto - same method, same reasoning. n/m
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Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 11/12/10 12:51am
Msg #360936
Thanks for all your responses
Cheers,
Joan
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Reply by Victoria_NJ on 11/12/10 11:26am
Msg #360983
It's called CYA - additional forms for assignees, title, etc n/m
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